You're right jimsfriend. I think some people still are a little confused about what the exact goals for this would be.
The rules are simple, beat bowser in as little time as possible without ever acquiring the cape/feather. Flair would be nice, but is strictly optional.
This run should definately not try to beat "every level possible" because that is just sloppy. It should go for the fastest route to Bowser possible without the flying. Plus this would make the video shorter and would make it's completion much faster.
Very well then bob. That would be the normal 11 exit route. Personally I think a 95 exit run would be better for this kind of run, but I'm not crazy about either.
Edit: You're not missing anything jimsfriend. Like I said, you're right.
This run should definately not try to beat "every level possible" because that is just sloppy. It should go for the fastest route to Bowser possible without the flying.
I disagree, I think the 95-exit would be better. When we are adding so many stipulations to the "beat the game as quickly as possible", why make such a short video? An 11-exit run would have the first four levels be the same. The next four would be slightly different, the next two would be very similar, then SW4 would have the trick (or a faster variation), and then Back Door. I see so much more potential with this type of run, myself.
Walker Boh wrote:
Ya, I know that, but I thought that with tools it might be possible to manipulate ghosts to appear where you want them to and jump upwards, but perhaps it's still to high.
You can't spin-jump on these ghosts at all, you'll just take damage and won't bounce.
jimsfriend wrote:
Hey could someone make me a nifty picture/screenshot sequence of JXQ trick?
I can describe it:
1) Take a green shell to the right of the entire area above the key and drop it on the first platform after the last pipe above the key.
2) Jump on the Red Koopa on the next platform when he is at the extreme left of his platform, and also so he bounces out of his shell to the left, onto the first platform where you left the green shell. Pick up the red shell.
3) The koopa will hop in the green shell. Green Koopas walk off the edge of platforms, so when he walks off, fall with him and bounce off of him to the left. (This part requires perfect timing to make it to the platform) Then use the red shell you are holding to get the key.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
You're confusing the level requirements of two different ghost houses along with Donut Plains 1.
And the impossibility of a 96-exit run with the possibility of an 11-exit run.
I just did something I've never seen before. I was doing Donut Plains 1b and was having some trouble with the end of the level so I started experimenting a bit. Anyway, look at this.
There's a VINE for the big boo exit?!
(ok fine I probably knew that, but I haven't thought about that in years)
ROFL.
Ok, now seriously, is anybody going to do this thing?
It's looking to me like the answer is probably not...
So SMW is out, but we haven't yet talked about a capeless TOS for Super Demo World.
I personally think that would be very interesting.
When landing on the edge of platforms (especially moving ones) it appears Mario teleports forward several pixels. It is kind of like when you swim just below a platform and the white bubbles show up while you are pushed downwards a little bit, except there is not water or bubbles and you get pushed forwards. Just curious if you knew about it, and if I am actually seeing what I think I am seeing. What I'm getting at is if he teleports forward, that is frames saved at every platform unless it does something wierd to the flight speed jumping.
http://img144.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc16&image=3deef_TAS_teleport.JPG
I may do SMW no cape someday down the road, but mine wouldn't aim for fastest time, because I hate that damn hopping glitch. So it would end up being a demonstration run, trying to show how much stuff is possible in the game without getting a cape, maybe without the switch palaces, etc.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Joined: 8/31/2004
Posts: 298
Location: Falun, Sweden
Not that I ad anything too the discussion here but what I'd like to see is someone beating the Forest Fortress via the secondary exit (where you cross that huge lavapit) whitout a cape. I'm sure it is possible since I've almost made it on a console.
Bein' away for like five years, and not a single new post in the ZSNES forum... :'-(
Are these runs going to be Minimal, or full game runs?
I don't expect all exits, since some of them can't really be achieved without the cape.
I must say though, that this should be an interesting run to see without a Cape.
bob has had the shortest possible runs in mind, while others seem to have thought more about full runs (at least for SMW where 95 of 96 exits are possible. In SDW that number would be a lot lower).
The route for a short SDW run would be this:
1-4 MI 1-4
5 #1 Castle (secret exit not possible without cape)
6 Salty Isle
7 DW 1
8 DW 2a (2b not possible without cape)
9 DW 3
10 DW 4
11 Desert Pyramid
12 #2 Castle b
13 Desert Star World
14-18 Water Crystal Sky Ice and Pipe SW
19 Bowser's SW
20 Backdoor SW
21 Bowser's Back Door
I'm not sure about Pipe Star World. You need to bring a shell to the upper part of the level and break the block that's blocking the entrance to the room with the key box. Trouble is most pipes leading up there have piranha plants in them = no shells. I can't remember if there is a path which would allow bringing a shell there.
Also, I'm not sure if gombas can break that kind of block. If not, and if a shell from the level itself can't be brought (worst case scenario), the first mushroom house with an actual shell is in Sky World. Neat huh? Not much of a minimal run then.
So anyway, if there's no problem in Pipe Star World, that means 21 exits unless I screwed this up somehow.
Unfortunately I think the fast route to Bowser is quite boring in SDW so I'm not sure if this run would be the best idea if someone decided to make a SMW/SDW capeless run. My opinion is that SDW is a much much better game than SMW though, so I'd rank a "full" SDW run first, then full SMW, minimal SDW and least interesting is minimal SMW. That's my opinion anyway.
Edit: Also, one thing I forgot to mention. If anyone does attempt this kind of run, I would definately not mind if the hopping glitch was not used, I hate it just like JXQ. Since this would be a concept demo or whatever it's called anyway, we can make up this rule if we want to. Up to the runner of course, but I'd like a hopping-less run better.
