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Posted: 2/26/2006 7:03 PM
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flagitious
Player (200)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Hey, glad to hear someone is incorperating the hopping trick. While it sounds like you are saving less time that you expected, I think you will save more time than you expected toward the very last levels. This is partly because towards the end I independently discovered the hopping trick and so I knew the run would not be perfect so I just wanted to get it over with. In the last star world level, if you use left + right, I think you can save time getting the key in the hole (accelerate while stuck to the ceiling). And in bowsers castle in the dark room you can save a bunch of time with the hopping trick. I am unfamiliar with the new tricks that have been discovered in SDW, are there any that can apply? Anyways best of luck and looking forward to your run.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 2/26/2006 7:56 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
I'm guessing you're talking about the 11 exit run (so Star World 4 would be the "last" star world) These are all the improvements I know of for the 11 exit run (ignoring any lag issues). Mostly it's just the hopping glitch. YI2: Hopping glitch YI3: Hopping glitch YI4: Hopping glitch #1 Castle: Hopping glitch after P-switch jump DP1: Nothing DS1: Have never tested it, but each time I watch DS1 I think about the possibility to throw the shell on the key box to get the key a bit earlier. Ghost House: In room 1, hop the very last part to the door, to avoid losing flying speed. In room 2 I'm thinking it might be possible to start B-flying a bit sooner by ducking when taking off? Or something? Have to be tested. SW1: Nothing. SW2: Nothing SW3: Nothing SW4: One of the latest discovered timesavers is to keep the inital liftoff as short as possible whenever Mario starts flying. That's one thing here, another is that it looks to me as if some time is sacrificed to get the first koopa shell, which shouldn't be needed. Also, at the very end, it should be possible to accelerate to full flying speed, grab the key and hop to the keyhole instead of diving into the ground, saving a small amount of time. Back Door: In the very first room, it should be possible to start B-flying as soon as possible, then stop flying and hop to the door. Nothing in the room with the climbing net. In the next "room", same thing as in the first room (I think, can't remember the exact layout here). In the room with the spikes, you could begin running to the door earlier by ducking under the spike pole. Finally, in the last room before Bowser, start flying and then hop all the way. I think it might even be possible to fly all the way with the help of cape spins, but it wouldn't be faster than hopping anyway. Not a lot of improvable things, even with the help of all new techniques and glitches. As I've said many times before, it's a very good run :) Hope this list is helpful for anyone thinking about doing a new 11 exit run. Also flagitious, if you're interested in learning about the new things me and JXQ (well, mostly JXQ) discovered, most of them are explained in the beginning of the movie submission to our 120 exit SDW run. Of course, if you or anyone else have any questions I'll gladly answer them. And thanks for the kind words!
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 2/26/2006 8:42 PM
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jimsfriend
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
I think it's a shame that there's so little interest for this run.
Not true, I'm interested. But I already told you pretty much everything I can think of to help. I still want to know if flying under the map worked in VD2.
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Posted: 2/26/2006 11:29 PM
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flagitious
Player (200)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Hmm when I started to remake it along time ago using the hopping glitch I found it fastest in castle 1 to do hoping glitch from the start up until that long jump right before half way, the jump is still too long so you have to get your speed up again, but it was still a little faster. In SW4 the reason we started with such a high fly was to get high enough to grab a shell, I don't remember it that well, so maybe it can be improved after all. Also, was there some trick where you can start flying asap after some door transfers or something, how did that work? Just so you know, I am interested in all the new tricks you guys found in SDW, the reason I am not up to speed in following your guys runs is because that game looks very cool and most of the challenge and fun is finding the secrets exits and stuff for yourself. If I watched your guys run then the game would be spoiled for me when I play it. But first thing I will do after I get 120* or close to it is watch all your guys runs.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 2/27/2006 5:07 AM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
jimsfriend: Yes it did work (only for the secret exit). I know you're interested and I appreciate that a lot, but I'm thinking more like for Mario 64 where 10 people daily ask FODA how's it going :) As it is now it's just the SMW fans who show any interest whatsoever. Not that it's important or anything, but you know. By the way I already did Lemmy's Castle, but I did test your idea for the last room. Unfortunately it doesn't work, the block you're falling "into" is solid and you die right away. For this kind of trick to work, just the "ceiling" of the block has to be solid, and the rest of it hollow. flagitious: I didn't know you hadn't watched our run yet. I couldn't agree more about not watching it though, because playing through SDW for the first time (I think I've said this before) was probably my best video game experience ever. Such a great game, I wish I could forget all about it and do it again. Out of curiousity, how many exits have you finished? I never got them all without cheating, something I regret now, but some of those exits are just soo tough to find. If you're ever interested in reading about the new tricks used in that run, they're described at the beginning of the submission text and there are no spoilers nearby, just so you know. I'm not sure what you mean with "asap after some door transfers". The only thing I can think of is this: If you're running and there's a pipe in the ceiling, if you jump (B-fly) up into it you can begin flying when exiting the pipe on the other side by jumping right away. Other than that I can't think of any flight preserving trick.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 2/27/2006 5:49 AM
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flagitious
Player (200)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
I am only in the second world, it is hard for me to play with keyboard, and the usb controller I have is really bad, I should buy a new one. Thanks for explaining that fly out of pipe thing.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 2/27/2006 9:22 PM
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jimsfriend
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Maybe there is some flaw in the cape or something. When I do this level as small Mario it is possible to beat it with game clock reading 261.
I figured out this is because Mario with a cape is taller than small Mario, so the amount of time it takes him to exit the pipe at the beginning of the level (during which the timer is already going) is the difference.
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Posted: 3/16/2006 3:55 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Hi everyone. I'm done with the Star Worlds now if anyone's curious. I was messing around in Gnarly, the first special world, and accidentally found something cool. I hit the box with the P-switch in it, making it appear. Standing below the box + P-switch, I then jumped up to it, and grabbed the P-switch on my way down again. What happened was that the P-switch was now both in Mario's hands and still left on the box. "Cool", I thought. It turned out that once this glitch was started, I could copy the P-switch however many times I wanted by "grabbing" the original P-switch up on the box. When doing that, I'd simply grab a new copy of the switch, and the original would still be left on the box. I did this as small Mario, and I don't know if it's possible otherwise. I couldn't reproduce this glitch when recording, which sucked. I doubt it would have any time saving application in SMW or SDW, but you never know, especially not with SDW. It's interesting to think about if stuff like keys or other objects could be duplicated in this way too. Having two keys would maybe speed up keyjumping, or something :) Edit: I did this completely by accident, when not recording and in real-time, by the way.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 3/16/2006 4:15 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
I had a kah-raazy idea for Gnarly myself. Hitting a P-switch puts you in standing mode for a frame. If you can kick the switch to the right after making the initial climb, and then fall down with it. Since gravity pulls on Mario a little harder than the objects he throws (just like real life), you just might be able to hit it at the perfect time to enter that pipe in mid-air Sky World 6b style. This may not save time, depending on how you are grabbing and hitting the P-switch anyway, and it also is probably not possible (delaying falling by one frame can greatly change where you land on a falling object, so getting the precision needed is the tricky part). But it sure would look neat! As for the trick you discovered, it could make for some new even-crazier juggling in Misty Star World :)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 3/16/2006 4:34 PM
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jimsfriend
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
If standing mode is only required for one frame, wouldn't you be just as well off catching the wall (like you would for a wall jump) as you would using the p switch? This way you don't have to take the time to pick it up, but maybe it's just not possible. And besides, if you hit the p switch that way wouldn't the ? block appear under your feet anyway? And that multiple p switch glitch sounds really wierd. While on the topic of wierd seemingly useless glitches, check this out.
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Posted: 3/16/2006 4:46 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
I've said it before and I'll say it again, those pictures rule. Blargg's just chillin' in the corner like WHAT UP GANGSTA!!?!?excessivepuncuation I didn't think of a wallsnag, but that's definitely a feasible idea.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 3/16/2006 4:52 PM
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Bablo
Player (223)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 399
Yeah, your pictures rock jimsfriend. :)
<adelikat> I've been quoted with worse
Posted: 3/16/2006 5:28 PM
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A_Runnelid
Joined: 4/23/2004
Posts: 150
THANK YOU jimsfriend for putting an end to my noteblock confusion. Andreas
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:29 PM
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jimsfriend
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
A Runnelid wrote:
THANK YOU jimsfriend for putting an end to my noteblock confusion. Andreas
I can't tell, are you being serious? @JXQ I thought about making him eat the fish that represents Mario, but then it would be too obvious that I was having fun. Did you find the message in that picture I sent you? And if so, did it work?
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Posted: 3/16/2006 7:47 PM
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A_Runnelid
Joined: 4/23/2004
Posts: 150
Yes, I was being serious. I never knew why it appeared there until now. Andreas
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:29 PM
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jimsfriend
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
In that case, this isn't the only time when objects and textures in the game mysteriously teleport. I believe it is because when there is action the game wants to display what is occuring, but it can't display it where it occurs so it shows up on the other side of the screen. An easy example is in the top secret area, and another example is in DP1. These show the wrap-around affect of the Mario animations. This helps explain why the noteblocks appear at the top of the screen, but it does not explain why the noteblocks exist. Tomacco does. And as a side note, Mario died in excess of 50 times yesterday trying to teach me everything he could about these noteblocks.
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Posted: 3/17/2006 3:22 AM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
jimsfriend wrote:
Tomacco does.
Tomaaaaaaaaaaaaaco! I just tried that Yoshi trick on an emu. I don't seem to be able to get to work.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 3/17/2006 5:21 AM
(Edited: 3/18/2006 9:13 PM)
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jimsfriend
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Well that's wierd, I can't get it to work either. Would've sworn it did, but apparently my memory is bad... maybe I'll figure it out later. To redeem myself, I did get a wrap around to work by moving back and forth so Yoshi faces you (the viewer) and then eat the one up on your left just as you exit to your right. Some sort of white puff cloud appears on the left side of the screen. And I see someone got the Simpsons reference (although I don't watch the show much... maybe twice a year...), but nobody got my Star Wars reference in my picture. Next time I guess I'll have to use a more obvious quote. No need for the p switch.
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Posted: 3/17/2006 12:30 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
If it makes you feel any better jimsfriend I totally got the A New Hope reference. Not because I'm a Star Wars geek because I'm not, but I saw the movie not too long ago.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 3/17/2006 3:44 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Active player (277)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Maybe it was so obvious that no one felt the need to point it out!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 3/19/2006 11:20 PM
Post subject: New idea regarding running -> flying
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Fabianx
Joined: 12/17/2004
Posts: 99
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
I just got an idea, which is completely untested. While watching Saturns trailer again, I thought about the arm pumping and that so far in many games there have been tricks to move faster and that unfortunately in N64 games they are always accompanied with a "yahoo" or "uff", which is nerving as hell. Then I thought that JXQ said that he could get to "shine-spark" (turbo run) in Super Metroid very fast by pressing the keys just at the right frames. Now here the question to the SMW experts: Would that also work for SMW? I.e. does the game check for the running key on each frame or just on certain frames? Could this make it possible to use flying in for example Vanilla Dome 2 on the small platform, which was normally impossible? Just an idea. cu Fabian
Posted: 3/19/2006 11:49 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
This is a good idea; jimsfriend and I have been discussing it recently. It's impossible to be certain without checking how the game's code works, but all signs so far point to no, unfortunately. The way the running code seems to work from my observation is with two different variables; velocity, and a counter for super speed. For each frame -> and Y/X are pressed, velocity increases, and the counter for super speed increases. Velocity tops off pretty quickly, so Mario is at his mid-running speed. As the correct buttons are held longer, the super-speed counter continues to increment until it breaks a threshhold, and Mario is granted a faster velocity and a super-speed flag. For each frame Y/X isn't held, the counter decrements. This can be shown by running nearly up to super-speed, and then releasing Y/X for varying amounts of frames before holding it again, and testing how long it takes to reach super speed. This is all based on evidence from the game, however. It also may not even help in certain situations if it were possible, because the ratio of Mario's mid-running speed to flying speed is not as steep as the ratio of Samus's early running to shinesparking.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 3/20/2006 7:45 AM
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yarbles
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 143
Location: Colorado
jimsfriend wrote:
but nobody got my Star Wars reference in my picture. Next time I guess I'll have to use a more obvious quote.
When I looked at the aforementioned quote, all I could think of was this:
Posted: 3/31/2006 3:16 AM
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jimsfriend
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Did you finish the special levels yet? @yarbles I don't know why they show that screen shot with that quote... wrong movie. They should have a picture of Mon Mothma or perhaps the 3d death star hologram.
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Posted: 3/31/2006 3:20 AM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
That was the scene I was thinking about too, although it apparently was wrong. I was keeping a good pace on this a few weeks ago. For the past two weeks though, I haven't done anything. Until earlier today, when I finished Awesome, which turned out Way Cool (awesome!). We already did these jokes in the irc channel but might as well repeat them here, right? RIGHT? So anyway yeah, halfway through the special levels. I could possibly see myself working at a faster pace in the coming weeks, but we'll see.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
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