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Posted: 3/31/2006 8:55 AM
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JXQ
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Joined: 5/6/2005
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Well maybe after the special world, the levels will be a little easier while catching back up to Castle #4. You've been doing Star World and Gnarly World for a while so it's probably natural to get sick of running the game a bit.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 4/1/2006 4:03 AM
Post subject: More Maniacal Mario Mayhem (with pictures)
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jimsfriend
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Joined: 1/17/2006
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For a nifty trick I am dreaming up I need the answer to a couple of questions. 1)Is the reason VD2 trick was only possible for the key exit because it is impossible to fly under water? 2)If so does the same apply to lava? 3)How much time would be saved/lost if no Yoshi was used in VoB3? 4)Is it possible to Use a spring to push Mario through a vertical wall!!!? 5)If the answer to (1) is yes, how much time is saved/lost with no Yoshi in VoB4? 6)Is it possible to bounce off a spring and still maintain p flight? 7)Is it possible to grab a spring in p flight and not be stopped by it (maybe spinning helps)? I hope I asked all the questions I meant to, but here's why. It might not even save time, but it would be Groovy if it did. And just for fun. About the Way Cool pictures which might be a bit Outrageous... I'm in a Funky mood right now.
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Posted: 4/1/2006 4:17 AM
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Fabian
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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
I can't answer all these questions, but hopefully a few answers is better than no answers. 1. I don't think it's impossible to fly under water per definition. In VD2 it's not possible though. 2. You can fly under lava in some places in Super Demo World. If the level layout is the same in Super Mario World (ie if the lava doesn't extend further down below the screen or something) it should be possible. 3. Have no idea. 4. It looks doubtful to me. Of course, lots of stuff is possible in this game so who knows. I certainly don't :) 5. Have no idea. 6. Pretty certain it's not possible. 7. Somewhat certain it's not possible. Interesting idea. I think the fact that you don't keep flight when bouncing off springs kills it though.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 4/1/2006 4:36 AM
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jimsfriend
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Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
1. Read Number Two. 2. From what I see at the site I get these maps from, and then what I see in the game, the textures in every level extend the height of 1 small Mario beneath the screen. 3. Me neither. 4. It does look doubtful. Most things I post do. 5. Me neither. 6. K 7. So was I. Just hoping there was something I didn't know. I know the picture was messy, but losing flight shouldn't make it impossible. Take the shell that is part of the left eye of the face and bring it with you when you push yourself through the vertical wall. Then bounce off the shell up to the key, and key jump back out. My only two doubts for this trick are going through a vertical wall, and whether or not it will save time (even when you are slowed by picking up the spring). And of course, this is only necessary if it is not possible to just simply fly under the map.
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Posted: 4/1/2006 8:41 AM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
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Helpful memory addresses: 7E13E4 - Reports a value from 0 to 112. It's essentially the "P-Meter" of SMB3. Only increases when running at mid-speed. 7E007B - Horizontal velocity. Holy crap this is helpful. This oscillates between 47 and 49 for full running speed. 51 is top flying speed. Now you can just get this value correctly instead of testing flight to a nearby object multiple times. It is a signed value, but the memory watcher doesn't display signed values correctly, so running left gives you values in the 200s instead of negative numbers. Interestingly, this oscillating property is not only for running at top speed, but running at mid-speed, walking, and even swimming. 7E01F1 7E01F2 - Both of these values tend to go nuts whenever there is a frame of lag. Could be helpful in eliminating it. jimsfriend's latest image of VoB4 is now my desktop background.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 4/1/2006 1:34 PM
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jimsfriend
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Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
THankyou for finding speed memory. It seems my coin message worked :D Now testing my guessing will be much easier for you guys. (I always though midspeed probably did that... but not to many applications. Did the meter increment the way we thought it would? And I'm glad you guys love my pictures.
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Posted: 4/1/2006 1:42 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
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JXQ: if you could figure out how to predict fadeout time that would probably help a lot. That always seemed to be the most boring and difficult part of making runs for this game.
Posted: 4/1/2006 6:23 PM
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JXQ
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Joined: 5/6/2005
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I worked on that for a bit, but couldn't find anything conclusive. I'm taking two different finishes of a level on the same frame with differing fadeout and comparing their memory...problem is, there are about 100 different variables that don't match, and most of them seem to fluctuate randomly. My guess is that it won't be figured out more than "make memory location 7##### equal or be near a certain number", with no definite idea on how to make it that number. It wouldn't solve the problem, just reduce some testing needed (i.e., one wouldn't have to play a level to the end to see if the fadeout works, rather, just keep an eye on this variable). But I'll work at it some more soon.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 4/1/2006 7:06 PM
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Fabian
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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
This is very cool stuff. I'll try it out later tonight. I have no background. It's just blue. I'm so boring.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 4/1/2006 8:46 PM
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jimsfriend
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Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Fabian you should spice up your life with this fancy new background.
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Posted: 4/1/2006 9:10 PM
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Fabian
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Posts: 1711
A picture says more than a thousand words. Awesome!
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 4/2/2006 2:57 AM
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jimsfriend
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Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Ok. It is possible to pass through a floor with the spring. It is possible to continue flight when you grab a spring (although probably not in this situation because Mario's velocity becomes zero when he grabs it). However, to fix that just do the trick labeled as "jump many times in the air" or something like that (once before you grab it then again after you grab it). A couple times I have been able to fly after bouncing off the spring, although I am unable to determine what caused it (I think I had just started the dive animation and then Mario bounced up straight like he is supposed to, then continued diving... something like that maybe). In special situations this might be able to give Mario a bunch of height fast while flying. Special because a lot of horizontal velocity, and therefore time, would be lost. There is only one problem left to solve...hopefully. When you bounce beneath the floor, you then bounce back up above the floor. Duh. I don't know why I didn't think of that before. There might still be applications in SDW, but unless someone figures how to bounce off a spring without bouncing then I think VoB4 is useless. I still can't really say that it would work though, because I made sure he can pass through a floor (no vertical wall to push through), and I know he bounces back up (vertical wall). I don't know what the invisible wall would do: push sideways, or up (if we didn't bounce)? An example of a possible isolated solution is placing a "hard" item such as a key/spring/pswitch on the ground as you fall through it so when Mario tries to bounce back up he is blocked and stays underneath. This can't happen in VoB4 because the only "hard" item is that spring. And I'm glad you like your new background.
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Posted: 4/2/2006 8:42 AM
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JXQ
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Fadeout lag seems to be determined, at least partially, by score. The more high digits in the score at the end of the level (after the time bonus is added in), the more time it took to close the circle around Mario. Digits from 0 to 3 seemed okay, but 4 and above usually caused some delay. It's not 100% consistent, but it's a pretty good theory so far by my testing. If anyone wants to mess with it more, the score is kept track of in memory address 7E0F34 and 7E0F35. Complete a level, and put different values in for the score to see how it affects fadeout time. A score of 0 always gave me the best time. Even in a great fadeout time, there is still many frames of lag. This can be seen by viewing memory address 7E01F0, -F1, or -F2. When these values differ from their defaults, the game is lagging. This could be a real handy tool for spotting tough-to-notice lag while playing. I'm pretty sure the time the screen is black before the world map but after the circle closes is fixed, but I couldn't confirm that through any memory location (looking for a counter), so I may be wrong.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 4/2/2006 2:21 PM
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Truncated
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I noticed that it's usually the circle closing that takes different amounts of time, but what about levels without closing circles, such as castles? I seem to remember the span of possible lag being greater there too. Minimizing your score really cuts out a lot of the possibilites for doing interesting things while running trough the levels. :/
Posted: 4/2/2006 4:09 PM
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JXQ
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I haven't done any testing on levels without closing circles, but there must be some variance somewhere because flagitious was improving SMW-11 a while ago and was getting bad fadeout times on the first Castle. I agree that the solution is kind of a bummer, and that you can't keep your score at zero no matter what due to time bonuses each level. However, it's not always about minimizing your score, just getting the individual digits to be small. For example, 100000 gives no more lag than 0, but 99990 is around 3-4 frames slower. By the way, the score in memory does not keep track of the final zero (because it can never change).
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 4/2/2006 11:51 PM
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Fabian
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Joined: 6/15/2005
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Update: I have now been using my new enchanced spiced-up background more than a day. I constantly forget about it though, so every time I close down all windows on one of my monitors and see it, I die a little inside. I will not be changing back for at least a few more days. SMW Update: Nothing.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 4/3/2006 12:10 AM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
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My turn to join on the desktop fun! I had jimsfriend's picture up, but this is my default. I think I'm going to take that warrior he drew on the right and use it for something, not sure what though.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 4/3/2006 1:29 AM
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flagitious
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Is it possible that fadeout is not reduced by minimizing each digit of score, but the number of white or black pixels in the score, and also more than score but lifes, coins, etc? I remember having these theories, but due to lack of consistancy I gave them up for thinking it is based on the RNG, one reason for this was because I also thought RNG was only used by monsters and thus possibly only affected by the way you interact with monsters (aka killing them, which also affects score). Now that we can look at the RAM it would be alot easier to get to the bottom of this, but I personally I think it is a waste of time to reduce this lag because it is relatively small and adds nothing to entertainment. (This is a reverse on my philosophy when Viper and I made the run, where we worked hard to reduce all fadeout). PS, should I be saying effect instead of affect?
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 4/3/2006 5:06 AM
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JXQ
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affect = verb effect = noun jxq = drunk If you don't want to reduce fadeout lag, that's fine with me. as you said, it doesn't help entertainment at all. It could be worked on a bit but it's not worth killing ourselves over.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 4/6/2006 3:03 AM
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jimsfriend
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Ok, so I have been thinking about one of my favorite levels of the game again, and messing around a bunch and have a couple questions. It's back to VD2. The idea is to take the key for the regular exit. I have no idea how the time this would take compared to the vine route because there is a lot of complex stuff involved that I can't do. It sure would look cool though. If you can not catch up to the key when you drop it in the water, I believe it is possible to key jump without a wall to push the key agains in midair (which means beneath the map). Simply press DOWN, release the key, press --> until you are standing on it, then jump (and grab the key, you still need it). I was also wondering about the possibity of using a key to push yourself through a cieling the same way it is used to push through an invisible block. There are no applications in SMW that I could find if it is possible though. The idea is to drop the key near the cieling and land on it so Mario is bumped up by it then jump to go through. I doubt it will work. Having a Yoshi might improve chances... might not. And I need technical help turning THE infinity BANDIT into my avatar. I don't know how to resize it or where to upload the picture so I can link to it for my avatar. If you would like to help me please do it in a pm so we don't go off topic any more than I just did. I also would not like to lose any picture quality (not that there is much to lose).
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Posted: 4/6/2006 3:48 PM
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supermegavkoy
Joined: 4/30/2005
Posts: 199
Don't now if this is something new (probably not since it's so easy to do), but it's funny. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/959/Super%20Mario%20World%20%28US%29-funny%20thingy.smv
Posted: 4/6/2006 5:34 PM
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Tompa
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Well.. A really old thing if you ask me, but it's still a bug and bug owns:D. Try some harder once like: Making new blocks, see two Yoshis on the same screen, carry things on Yoshi etc.
Posted: 4/6/2006 5:37 PM
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Fabian
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I still have no idea how to make two Yoshi's appear.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 4/6/2006 5:45 PM
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Tompa
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Well, the other Yoshi (The false one) can you only see when it appear from the egg. It won't be standing there after the hatch. But as soon as the other Yoshi has died the other one will appear. To make this bug you have to double a Yoshi block. I did it on Chocolate Island 5. Hope you understand my bad explanation:P.
Posted: 4/6/2006 5:48 PM
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Fabian
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Update: I have just now changed back to my regular boring blue background. It was fun while it lasted though! SMW Update: I actually did a level today! How exciting! Tompa, I understood just fine. Thanks :)
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
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