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Posted: 8/15/2006 1:06 AM

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thegreginator

Former player

Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

You should post that discovery on SDA and see what people say, maybe they'll allow it. I just did some testing on flying under lava in VD3. I was never actually able to fly under the lava (it requires extreme precision not to die), but I did get a Yoshi, hop down a hole, then dismount Yoshi while under the lava. Mario hits his head on the lava (I can tell by the noise) as if it was a solid surface, which is kinda weird. This also makes me think that C#5, VD3, and VoB4 have a chance of being possible. I hesitate to say C#7 is possible only because flying through that escalator thing might not work, otherwise it might be possible. For VD2, I dont know how flying under water works, so I dont know what to think of this level. For VoB2, I dont know if you can fly into a slope on the ceiling. CS and DP2 are probably not possible because of the "sequence breaks." I noticed some other cool properties of lava while playing VD3. Mario can actually touch lava without being hurt as long as the lava is running vertically. This lava acts just like a wall, and you might even be able to walljump off it. Also, Yoshi can stand on lava if it's sloped. You must dismount Yoshi first (just drop him on the lava), but then you can get back onto him and sit on him for a second before he starts to sink, then you must dismount again. If you sit on Yoshi, you have a split second to either jump or move left or right before you must dismount. This means that on a slope like this _/"" , by using a series of mounting, moving a little bit right, dismounting, remounting, and moving right again, you can actually climb the lava slope. The jumps that you can get off barely take you off the ground, so they dont help for climbing uphill. If the slope is shaped like this ""\_ , however, you can get down it in no time using the short jumps (especially if you have a cape). No matter how short your jump is (it's like trying to jump out of quicksand), you can float just above the lavas surface all the way down. This probably doesnt have any practical application but it's cool to know.

Posted: 8/16/2006 2:43 AM

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jimsfriend

Former player

Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign

Maybe I can save Fabian a little trouble. C5-Dunno about the lava, but the bottom blue line is an impossible path (when it splits) because you can not be inside that wall. The only known ways inside a wall like that cause death because it is a "hard" wall. C7-You can jump through the escalator, so I assume you can fly through it as well. Again with the lava. CS-First room doesn't matter, second room won't work the way you have it drawn, the idea can't be used to save time as far as I can tell. DP2-I'm pretty sure that was just an error in the ripping process. VD2-All ideas in the picture have been adressed somewhere in this thread. VD3-idk VoB2-No known way to fly through a down slanted slope. If it could be done, no spots available for Mario to get back inside the maze in order to reach the pipe. VoB4-I'm pretty sure that's not possible, although it would eliminate the need of a Yoshi which could add a trick to VoB1. Edit: also, you stole my pagebreak in my absence.

Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign aqfaq Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign

Posted: 8/16/2006 4:03 AM
(Edited: 8/16/2006 6:15 AM)

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skamastaG

Former player

Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO

I found some pretty cool stuff in VoBGH. It doesn't save time but is still cool. 1) In the first room you can fly over the right wall and fall to your death. 2) Take door 5. Get rid of the pswitch and fly under the floor to the right. You will go past the wall and be in a room. There is a hole in the corner but you can stand over it. Fly up and to the left and you can run around on the ceiling 3) In the second room you can get in the doors without the pswitch. Just fly under the floor and fly up to the door.( This might actually save time over the pswitch method but probably not. I think it will be faster than the standard non tool method. You can't really fly stuck to the celing(I don't know how) so you have to run, but if you go under and fly you have higher speed. You might still have to hit the pswitch but it should be faster) I will look at more levels for possible shortcuts, but I think most of Fabian's run is not improvable besides a few frames in some levels due to corner boosts and hopglitch and other small things. I know some 10 minutes runs get obseleted by a run a few frames faster but I think that is pointless for an hour long run. I would never even think about beating Fabian's run unless new tricks become known and it can be improved by at least 10 seconds or so. Even then I would be hesistant because I love the run and it would be extremely hard to make anything as impressive and worth watching as this one without being repetetive. EDIT: I changed VGH to VoBGH

Posted: 8/16/2006 5:13 AM

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thegreginator

Former player

Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

Cool find skamastaG. For a second I thought you were talking about Vanilla Ghost House and that confused me. ;) I didnt know exactly what you were talking about until I looked at the picture, so here is the picture for anyone else to follow along more easily. "Door 5" is Door H in the pic. For 3), I dont think flying under the brown blocks to the door would be faster because you have to run back and forth on the small platform under the p-switch (where Door A/C is) to get up run, since the ? blocks arent there unless you hit the p-switch.

Posted: 8/16/2006 5:01 PM

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thegreginator

Former player

Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

skamastaG and I have been experimenting with a number of different options for YI2 for entertainment value. Right now we have 7 possible endings, all of which have a different trick used in them. We made videos of the 7 endings and put them in a YouTube playlist. Here is the link to it. We were just wondering which ending or endings you liked the best. Which one(s) did you not like? Feel free to cast your vote for your favorite(s), and we will use the most poplular one in the run! If you're wondering about #6, we did get hit on purpose. For some reason, getting hit allows you to land on a shell you have just thrown at full speed, which is kinda weird. For voting, you can just use the numbers used in the playlist.

Posted: 8/16/2006 5:22 PM

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Weatherton

Experienced player (608)

Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706

thegreginator wrote:

Valley of Bowser 2 (key)

If the entry in that (Valley of Bowser 2 (key) ) is possible, that could be used many other places. Especially because floors tend to be much more full of danger than ceilings... though that could make for some boring levels if used more than necessary.

Current Project: - Mario Kart 64

Posted: 8/16/2006 5:29 PM

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Twisted_Eye

He/Him

Active player (410)

Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 636
Location: Seattle, WA

thegreginator wrote:

skamastaG and I have been experimenting with a number of different options for YI2 for entertainment value. Right now we have 7 possible endings, all of which have a different trick used in them. We made videos of the 7 endings and put them in a YouTube playlist. Here is the link to it

5, 6, and 7 are definite no's, and 2143 just get better as they go along in that order, so if the first four all end up the same speed then definitely go for #3

Posted: 8/16/2006 8:12 PM

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Fabian

Former player

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711

Weatherton wrote:

thegreginator wrote:
Valley of Bowser 2 (key)
If the entry in that (Valley of Bowser 2 (key) ) is possible, that could be used many other places. Especially because floors tend to be much more full of danger than ceilings... though that could make for some boring levels if used more than necessary.

It's not possible. Well, you never know and all that, but both JXQ and I tried just to make sure and didn't come close.

Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk

Posted: 8/16/2006 10:30 PM

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minglw

Joined: 4/3/2006
Posts: 269

thegreginator wrote:

skamastaG and I have been experimenting with a number of different options for YI2 for entertainment value. Right now we have 7 possible endings, all of which have a different trick used in them. We made videos of the 7 endings and put them in a YouTube playlist. Here is the link to it. We were just wondering which ending or endings you liked the best. Which one(s) did you not like? Feel free to cast your vote for your favorite(s), and we will use the most poplular one in the run! If you're wondering about #6, we did get hit on purpose. For some reason, getting hit allows you to land on a shell you have just thrown at full speed, which is kinda weird. For voting, you can just use the numbers used in the playlist.

I vote for #4. I like both 4 and 3 but 4 is a bit more interesting. I agree with Twisted Eye that 5, 6 and 7 are definitely a no-no.

Posted: 8/17/2006 5:06 AM

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Shadow_Byrn

Joined: 3/16/2006
Posts: 289

*casts vote* 4!

I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.

Posted: 8/19/2006 5:00 AM

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thegreginator

Former player

Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

Okay I'm thinking its going to be between 3 and 4, so does anyone have any thoughts as to which it should be between those two?

Posted: 8/19/2006 5:02 AM

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Fabian

Former player

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711

Yes, 4. Those two were the ones I liked most, and I decided on 4.

Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk

Posted: 8/19/2006 5:33 AM

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DK64_MASTER

Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose

Fabian wrote:

Yes, 4. Those two were the ones I liked most, and I decided on 4.

4 is good! Just a quick comment, doesn't getting the end level goal bonus sometimes slow down the run?

<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~

Posted: 8/19/2006 5:44 AM

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thegreginator

Former player

Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

Getting the gate points doesnt force you into the slow unskippable bonus game unless you get over 99. In an 11-exit run, you couldnt get over 99 even if you tried. The gate points may cause more fadeout lag (depending on your score), but this is a matter of 1 or 2 frames and is ignored in a console run.

Posted: 8/19/2006 8:44 AM

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skamastaG

Former player

Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO

I JUST GOT A 361 ON YI2!!!!!! It's really late right now so that's all I'm gonna say. I'll come back tomorrow when I can actually think intelligently.

Posted: 8/19/2006 8:51 AM

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Fabian

Former player

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711

I think it's great/cute that you and greginator care about time units so much :) Of course, improvement is always good. Just keep in mind that trying to finish with the hopping glitch is never guaranteed to work, and will often lose time even if executed perfectly. Mario's average running speed is 47.8, on 2 frames out of 5 you'll end up hopping at 47, on 2 frames out of 5 you'll end up hopping at 48, and 1 of 5 is at 49. So lots of stuff has to go right to save time. Edit: To expand on this, missing one jump by one frame while hopping will make Mario's speed go down 1 point for the remainder of the level. Missing by 3-4 frames is not that uncommon in my experience.

Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk

Posted: 8/19/2006 10:55 AM

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A_Runnelid

Joined: 4/23/2004
Posts: 150

thegreginator wrote:

In an 11-exit run, you couldnt get over 99 even if you tried.

While it is entirely possible to collect a total 110 goal stars in the 3 levels where you cross the gate, it won't happen in a speed-run, which is what you're getting at, I'm sure. Andreas

Posted: 8/19/2006 4:20 PM

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thegreginator

Former player

Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

skamastaG, thats awesome about a 361! I never thought it would be possible on console! Even if it doesnt save that much time, if we did it in a run, the average SDA viewer who watches it would be amazed. I know I couldnt believe my eyes when I first saw JXQ get a 361 on this level. Getting it on console will be even more incredible. I can imagine future runners trying to beat our time and just being stumped about how to get that 361 ;). With the 361 and your 278 on YI4, this run is starting to look more and more like a TAS. :) I was proud of myself for beating some of Alexis Neuhaus' times, now you've beaten one of VIPer/flagitious' times! Since this is the first level in our run, we can try over and over again for that 361, since not getting it wont "ruin" anything. I dont know how likely it is to happen in a run, but it's cool to know it's possible.

Posted: 8/20/2006 12:10 AM

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skamastaG

Former player

Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO

I doubt I will ever be able to get it in a run as the odds are pretty bad. The cool thing is that it should work fine with #4, in fact it is easier than without doing it. I only need to do one hop instead of two if I land on the shell. All I did to get the 361 was 2 hops at the very end. I jumped off the pipe onto the yellow bricks then hopped down and into the goal. I thought more hops were necessary but since i jumped from so high I got a big effect without having to do multiple hops. I didn't do the #4 trick when i got it but doing the trick shouldn't change anything. I really don't think I will get it consistent or if I will ever get it again but it is awesome to know it can be done on console. I don't think I will get the YI4 shell trick again. It is hard and also hurts my thumbs a lot to practice. I know a 276 is completely possible but I don't know when I will see it being done.

Posted: 8/20/2006 12:34 AM

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thegreginator

Former player

Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

Oh, I thought you hop glitched through the whole level. It's surprising that it only takes two hops at the end to make a 361 happen. Knowing this, I would say it would be possible to replicate again for a run if given enough tries. Now I think we should do Ending 4 for sure: it's the coolest and the fastest. ;) Thanks for voting everyone. I have made videos for almost every beginning, so I will post a link to a playlist for all the beginnings, and you can vote on those too. EDIT: I did some testing on Mario's running speed with all this hop glitch talk. I made a handy little graph (click on it to make it bigger) for a nice visual representation of Mario's speed. The graph covers the period of time, frame by frame, that it takes Mario to go from a dead stop to a full run. I used frame advance and recorded Mario's speed value at every frame. As you can see, the first section of the graph (from frames 0 to about 25) is not a straight line. When Mario is accelerating, his speed goes up by one then two then one then two (ex: 0,1,3,4,6,7,9,10). For some reason, Mario's acceleration tops out at the 35-37 range for about 55 frames before Mario accelerates further. This top out at the 35-37 range follows the same oscillations as a full run. This oscillation is: 47,48,47,49,48,47,48,47,49, etc. I also tested out flying speed oscillation, which is much more linear with the following pattern (only applies when holding forward): 51,50,49,48,47,51,50,49,48,47,51, etc. This means if you get unlucky with fast flying, it may be slower than running. EDIT 2: Yay! I just got a 361 as well! It's definately replicable if you get good enough at it. I did the same thing as you skamastaG: made a long jump to the green pipe, released forward in midair, jumped off the yellow blocks, and jumped off the ground and into the goal. I think we can do this in a run! EDIT 3: I just got 361 11 more times! It's just luck of what the oscillation stops at, I've gotten much better at touching the ground for only one frame at a time (yes at 100% speed). :)

Posted: 8/20/2006 7:19 PM

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thegreginator

Former player

Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

Okay, the videos for the beginning tricks on YI2 are done. Time to vote on them! There are 5 options. You can just vote using the number(s) in the playlist. Here's the link. I'm curious as to which one(s) you guys will like best. And the best part is, none of these tricks interfere with getting a 361. The ending tricks might though. :( I tried to get a 361 using some of the ending tricks and have been unsuccessful so far, but that doesnt mean it cant be done. I came the closest with ending options 3, 5, and 6, but with practice I think I should be able to get 4 to work.

Posted: 8/20/2006 7:25 PM

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Ozmodiar

Joined: 8/2/2004
Posts: 98

thegreginator wrote:

Okay, the videos for the beginning tricks on YI2 are done. Time to vote on them! There are 5 options. You can just vote using the number(s) in the playlist. Here's the link. I'm curious as to which one(s) you guys will like best. And the best part is, none of these tricks interfere with getting a 361. The ending tricks might though. :( I tried to get a 361 using some of the ending tricks and have been unsuccessful so far, but that doesnt mean it cant be done. I came the closest with ending options 3, 5, and 6, but with practice I think I should be able to get 4 to work.

I like number 3 the most, and number 5 the least.

-Oz. If practice makes perfect, but nobody's perfect, why practice?

Posted: 8/20/2006 7:31 PM

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thegreginator

Former player

Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO

Yeah 5 is kinda just a "backup" option if skamastaG gets frustrated trying to pull off the other four options during a run. Those other four are much harder than 5. I personally like 5 the least as well.

Posted: 8/20/2006 8:16 PM

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