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Posted: 8/25/2006 12:23 AM
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jimsfriend
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Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Two Answers: 1) The shell jump is it. Mario has to slow his speed down to drop the shell, then speed up to catch the shell. This is done with 6/5 speed oscillation. Hop glitch starts immediately after mario releases the shell. 2) It was 8 frames slower. SW5: I'm pretty sure multiple wall jumps would be possible. Wall jumps are really annoying to make happen at low speeds, we are simply trying to see if the levels are possible, and a wall jump from the gray blocks up into that little hole that is the entryway into that key cubby is impossible. So it would still be two wall jumps + shell jump. So yeah that would be much faster. Now make us a demo ;)
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Posted: 8/25/2006 1:00 AM
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Fabian
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Test of idea for the pyramid Unfortunately I couldn't get it to work. Even if I did get the P-switch to appear I don't think I could get it out of the ice block it would be trapped in, unfortunately.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:15 AM
Post subject: Super Mario World (Minimalist Run)
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Heisanevilgenius
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Joined: 3/22/2006
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I've been toying with this idea and experimenting a little bit and I think it's possible. Here's how it works: 1. Collect no powerups. No mushrooms, fire flowers, feathers, starmen, 1up mushrooms, and so on. This also means avoiding the "Continue" checkpoints which give you the benefit of a mushroom when you trigger them. 2. Collect no dragon coins. Not a single one. 3. Kill only the enemies that are absolutely necessary. Such as bosses. Avoid every single enemy that it is in any way possible to do so. 4. Never gain any 1ups in any way. (That means collecting a maximum of 99 coins, for instance) 5. Less stringent requirements: Avoid collecting coins, and avoid anything that will gain you any points, so long as it is possible to do so without slowing down or violating the above rules. Obviously the best way to get a low score is to wait until the timer runs down, but that's no fun, is it? Some coins are just unavoidable without severely losing speed too, and that wouldn't be entertaining. That's why this is just a general rule and not a strict one. Note that this means I can't take the star road shortcut because it would require smashing blocks, and that means at least getting a mushroom. So, I'd need to work out a route that gets me from start to finish as quickly as possible without taking the star road. Would this be worth watching? A concern of mine is that this would start to get old after a couple of levels since there's no flying or throwing fireballs, just a lot of running, jumping, and dodging. I'd like to think I can still keep it interesting, but I thought I'd see what reactions there would be to this idea before I decide. Comments?
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:19 AM
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Fabian
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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
There has been discussion of similar stuff in the existing Super Mario World topic. To sum up my opinion in a sentence or two, I think this would be boring and pointless. Points 2-5 makes it especially boring and pointless to me. skamastaG has talked about doing a small 100% run (which is like 92 exits or something? Can't remember). I like that idea a bit better.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:23 AM
(Edited: 8/25/2006 1:24 AM)
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thegreginator
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Joined: 6/4/2006
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Location: CO
I think you should completely do away with rules 2-5. Watching a run in which no enemies are killed and no coins are collected would be really boring in my opinion. A small-only run (pretty much exactly as you are describing it except there are no rules 2-5) is currently being worked on non-tool over at SDA by jimsfriend. His route involves some TAS-style manuevers such as getting through DP1 (key exit), VD1 (key exit), and VD2 (key exit) without using Switch Palaces. This is the fastest route. I would definately watch this run if, again, rules 2-5 were not there. jimsfriend can probably give you a lot more info than I can. EDIT: Fabian beat me to it with rules 2-5.
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:24 AM
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Heisanevilgenius
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I think it's probably less boring than it sounds. (Narrowly avoiding stuff is always fun) but yeah, it would get old. Especially since I can't take the star road shortcut (which means doing a whole bunch of extra levels and all the same way) I guess I just like unusual concepts for speedruns. Oh well. I'll come up with something good eventually. I think all the good ideas for Super Mario World are already taken. I'll just find something else.
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:29 AM
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thegreginator
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There arent that many extra levels. In comparison to the 11-exit run, add DGH, DP3, DP4, C2, VD1, and VD2 and subtract SW1. So just 5 more levels, some of which (DP3, VD1, SW4) I think would look pretty cool small if done correctly. If you want to do it, go for it. I would watch it. Good luck with the hop glitch and 6/5. It wouldnt get too old if you did it right. The only part that would be boring would be Yoshis Island, because this has already been TASed capeless several times.
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:32 AM
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jimsfriend
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It might get forced out since it would be inside a wall. That demo was hilarious, thanks.
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Posted: 8/25/2006 1:33 AM
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Fabian
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Same thing would happen to it that happened to the shell in the demo.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:33 AM
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thegreginator
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I couldn't get the demo to work, it was a weird format. How do you play it? EDIT: Nevermind. Something similar happens in SMW when you put a shell on a pipe that moves up and down, the shell/koopa gets stuck inside it once it moves up. I've also gotten a koopa stuck fully inside the wall in VD2 by jumping on him (it was a flying one) at the right spot.
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:35 AM
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Heisanevilgenius
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Well, if you're interested this is what I'd done for the first two maps: http://hyena.kiwibonga.com/Super%20Mario%20World%20minimalist.smv I think it's probably entertaining enough for the first few maps or so, but I'm not sure if I can keep it interesting.
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:36 AM
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Fabian
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Link doesn't work. Upload here: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php Edit: It did work. I can't say I thought it was too great. It's just not a concept I think would be fun to watch.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:42 AM
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thegreginator
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The video doesnt work for me. The reservations I have about his run are that Yoshis Island would be boring, jimsfriend is doing almost the exact same thing on console, and rules 2-5 dont sound like they'd make it entertaining. But if you want to make it, go ahead.
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:43 AM
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Fabian
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Right click and save.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:44 AM
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Heisanevilgenius
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It's okay. I guess it won't work. I appreciate the feedback. I'd rather know it's a bad idea before I finish twenty levels :p
Posted: 8/25/2006 1:56 AM
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Chef_Stef
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By the way, it is possible to complete a normal 11-exit run without taking any coins whatsoever, in case anybody was wondering.
Posted: 8/25/2006 2:39 AM
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skamastaG
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I agree that the rules that you set are pointless. I don't see how you can keep viewers entertained by avoiding what makes runs look cool. Collecting coins and points and 1-ups is what is going to make a small run exciting. There are only so many variations of doing a speed run without getting boring or making pointless restrictions. I think a 90 something small run will be worth it to make though. I think it might be nice to keep this minimalist topic here so that small run strategies can be discussed separate from the smw topic so that multiple conversations about different runs aren't going on at the same time. I'll try to make a route( it might be similar to the 96 but it also may need to be different) and a general outline for this run tonight.
Posted: 8/25/2006 2:39 AM
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kwinse
Joined: 5/13/2006
Posts: 283
Chef Stef wrote:
By the way, it is possible to complete a normal 11-exit run without taking any coins whatsoever, in case anybody was wondering.
But is it possible to get no coins and no powerups?
<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great
Posted: 8/25/2006 2:40 AM
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JXQ
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Nope.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 8/25/2006 3:20 AM
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skamastaG
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I will discuss small run strategies in the smw topic from now on to keep all smw related discussions in one thread.
Posted: 8/25/2006 3:29 AM
(Edited: 8/25/2006 4:28 AM)
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skamastaG
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I just counted all of the levels that are impossible to do small. A 100% completion small is 86 exits. You cannot do Donut Ghost House top secret area exit, Cheese bridge Area soda lake exit, soda lake*, Chocolate Island 3 secret exit, Chocolate Fortress*, Chocolate Island 4*, Chocolate Island 5*, Valley of Bowser key exit. *These levels are possible to complete small but are not accesible due to the preceding level that IS impossible. I could be wrong or I could be proven wrong in the future but as of right now these levels are not possible small. EDIT: Oh yeah I almost forgot. Switch palace will be skipped so that makes it 82 exits. EDIT2: Thegreginator and I have thought of a way to beat CI3 secret exit. Actually he thought of it, I just modified it to make it more realistically possible. This opens up CF, CI4 and CI5 making the total 86 exits. We haven't tested the method yet but hopefully it is possible.
Posted: 8/25/2006 3:48 AM
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Fabian
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jimsfriend, before you start MI2, when I started that level I did it differently. I'm not sure which is faster since you did the bad shell grab, so you might want to test both. Anyway, what I did was similar to the strategy in the published run, only I ran down the hill (didn't slide) for as long as possible, pressed "down" long enough to kill that guy, then started running again. That way you gain full running speed before the next upwards slope thing.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 8/25/2006 4:21 AM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
why does it have to be 90-something? I thought only the one that requires block-busting was the first star road level, but after that, you don't need power ups. blue yoshi obviously not, red yoshi, you can do the hight/16 glitch to go up walls... is there something I'm not remembering properly?
Posted: 8/25/2006 4:23 AM
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jimsfriend
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Ok I'll test that out. How much time did it take to get the shell in the item box vs getting the fireflower and changing twice?
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Posted: 8/25/2006 4:27 AM
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JSmith
Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428
bkDJ wrote:
why does it have to be 90-something? I thought only the one that requires block-busting was the first star road level, but after that, you don't need power ups. blue yoshi obviously not, red yoshi, you can do the hight/16 glitch to go up walls... is there something I'm not remembering properly?
Umm... Isn't yoshi a power-up?
Trying 127.0.0.1... telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
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