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Posted: 11/10/2004 2:33 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
In VD1 in the part with the yellow thing moving down, it looks like you could have bounced off of some more of the enemies.
Posted: 11/10/2004 3:38 AM
Post subject: Morton's castle
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Bobix
Joined: 11/2/2004
Posts: 5
Location: Vasa, Finland
Nice work again, this version is even more entertaining than your previous work. Is there any difference if you switch back to feather right after killing Morton? There is some waiting time while the animation where he dissapear plays. Probably it still takes just as much time switching there as if in VD1, I'm just curious.
Posted: 11/10/2004 6:23 AM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
@Michael:
VIPer7 wrote:
The second room was done in like 10 minutes, I'll do some more tweaking on that tomorrow (both speed and bump on enemies)
@Bobix: I tried it out, if I press select in the fade-out animation after Morton is defeated, it still takes exactly 26 frames to switch to feather (or, if I press too late, the feather is just gone...). So I decided to keep the fireflower and switch later, although in VD1 I quickly found out that I could not profit from the fireflower in any way :P
Posted: 11/10/2004 5:36 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Here is my video for Vanilla Dome 1 (*only* VD1; I'll hex it into the full movie later on; I was sick of having to look at the whole video over and over again just to get to the passages that I just made, even with turbo mode it takes more than a minute...) I did the 2nd room about 10 frames faster and bumped on 3 enemies, more were not possible. In the 3rd room I abused a little glitch by jumping on a crab in a way so that Mario doesn't get hurt (he only blinks, but it doesn't cost time). Just before the end you see a little graphic error; a koopa shell hits a beetle that's below the visible screen, but it creates a little cloud at the top of the screen
Posted: 11/10/2004 7:31 PM
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Avin
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
Yay! I look forward to watching these updates more if they're posted in the form of single level runs. By the way, how are you planning to do Tubular? If you've thought about that yet at all. That's always been one of the hardest levels for me. I've never successfully completed it without getting any of the P-balloons, although I've tried - not on an emulator, though. Is it possible to do without the P-balloons, without using Yoshi at all? One thought I had the other day as I was playing through it on a console was to have Blue Yoshi and run through the level, jumping on enemies as you can, until you get to the first Red koopa that's flying around, swallow it, and then fly through the rest of the level. Having any Yoshi would also help save time on the next level (I forget the name) since there's wings halfway through the level, but I don't know if it would be worth it if it's possible to do Tubular without Yoshi or P-balloons. It's too bad the order of those two levels isn't switched!
Posted: 11/10/2004 10:27 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Yes, I did Tubular once without Yoshi or balloon. It's possible to get to the yellow pipe with the flower just floating and jumping on enemies. I took the blue P-block with me and placed it on the yellow pipe and then activated it, from there it's possible to finish the level by jumping on the football chucks and then walking on the brown blocks. But maybe I'll also do it with a Yoshi, because with him Gnarly (the level before Tubular) will be a lot faster, and as you said Way Cool (the level after Tubular) can also be finished faster with Yoshi (although I could also get a Yoshi in that level) Maybe I can feed a Baby Yoshi 5 enemies in one of the Star Worlds without taking too much time, gotta test that out.
Posted: 11/10/2004 10:33 PM
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Spoony_Bard
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
If you want to get a Yoshi quickly in the Star World, you don't NEED to feed them five times. In the second Star World, the underwater one, you can get a Yoshi easily by feeding the baby the Star, that causes it to grow right away. It's either five enemies, or one item, to get them to grow. Since the baby and the star are right at the entrance of the level this might be your fastest way to do it.
Posted: 11/10/2004 10:33 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I haven't been that active in this topic yet but the more I read the more I want to see this finished! As it sounds you are doing great Viper and I wish you good luck and I hope it's going all well!
/Walker Boh
Posted: 11/10/2004 11:13 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Ok I think this is how I'll do it: In my second visit in Star World 2 (level 34 in my route), I'll feed the blue Baby Yoshi 5 enemies. I know that the star turns him into a big Yoshi instantly, but swimming with big Yoshi is a lot slower than when Mario keeps the small Yoshi in his hands. So the very last fish will be the 5th enemy that he eats :) Then in Star World 1 and 5 I won't lose too much time by having a Yoshi, and Gnarly will be a lot faster (eating the koopa on the right side and then just fly all the way up). And also Tubular is very easy with blue Yoshi, I just did it in real time (with save-states though ;)). Then in Way Cool I won't have to go into the tube to get Yoshi, this also saves a lot of time. Maybe I'll be there in 2 or 3 weeks :P
Posted: 11/11/2004 10:52 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Vanilla Dome 2 b and the Red Switch Palace have been added, you can download the video here (just the 3 VD levels) In Vanilla Dome 2 I had to slow down 3 times to smash some fish with the feather; however this was still faster than moving around them. I abused a little glitch by jumping on a block with a fireflower without getting the fireflower :) In the Red Switch Palace it's pretty annoying that one of the koopas somehow disappears. I think it has to do with how I kill the other koopas before him, but haven't found a way to avoid the disappearing without slowing down :/. The red switch was stomped in the fastest way possible, even though it might not look like that. There won't be another update until Monday, because I'll be gone over the weekend (snowboarding woohoo! =)). If you get some ideas for improvement in the meantime, please post them here! :)
Posted: 11/11/2004 11:07 PM
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Kyrsimys
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
It's faster to swim upwards if you're not holding anything. In your movie, in VD2, before you hit the block with the vine, you swim up holding a shell. You should throw it away earlier and swim "traditionally". It also looks like you're slowing down too much when hitting the fish with your cape, but it may just be me seeing things. Also, would it be faster to hit the P-block and just start running while whacking the koopas with your cape? Otherwise it looks great, I can't spot any mistakes. I especially liked how you flew backwards and hit that P-block in VD2.
Posted: 11/12/2004 12:09 AM
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4matsy
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 498
Lookin' good VIPer. :) About those fish you had to slow down to hit, I think I may have found a way around that: X and Y are both assigned to hold/spin/fire, so you should be able to use one to hold the item and the other to hit the fish with, all without having to let go of the item at all. Should save those few frames... :)
Posted: 11/12/2004 12:28 AM
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Gigafrost
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
Another thought along Kyrsimys's line...is it possible to bounce off the shell to completely get rid of the vine climbing altogether? Also, it might be possible to ascend faster while simultaneously keeping the shell (for a possible bounce) by knocking the shell up as you swim up...it might be...
07-24-2009: 2595 anime DVDs and counting...
Posted: 11/12/2004 6:29 AM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Thanks a lot everybody for the comments! :) Let's see: - Swimming up without shell is indeed faster, I tried it out and was about 10 frames faster already, although I do not yet know the ideal "traditional" swimming style (press A for 1 frame, release for the next, press again, etc.?) - The vine passage is definately too high for a shell jump. And the shell also doesn't transform back into a beetle soon enough, which is needed for a shell jump. So I will just drop the shell as early as needed - The X / Y trick works fine! Hehe, I hadn't even assigned the X button on my joypad :P You never learn out... - Jumping on the P-Block and then running through the switch palace is a lot faster, I was more than 40 frames faster in a first test. The first "crazy" koopa is a bit annoying as I have to jump over him (or is there a way to kill him??), but from then on I can just run all the way to the tube.
Posted: 11/12/2004 6:32 AM
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TNSe
Emulator Coder
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norway
Noooo work on run no snowboarding!!! :|
Posted: 11/12/2004 7:17 AM
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4matsy
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 498
VIPer7 wrote:
- Swimming up without shell is indeed faster, I tried it out and was about 10 frames faster already, although I do not yet know the ideal "traditional" swimming style (press A for 1 frame, release for the next, press again, etc.?)
Sounds right to me... Just in case you didn't know, you can hold Up or Down as you swim to alter the vertical power of your swimming...
VIPer7 wrote:
The first "crazy" koopa is a bit annoying as I have to jump over him (or is there a way to kill him??)
Spin jump on him. ;) ...Actually, is there any way you could get him to knock everyone over on your way to the pipe without losing any speed? That would totally r0x0r...
Posted: 11/12/2004 11:10 AM
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Kyrsimys
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
By "traditional" swimming I just meant swimming without the shell. Sorry that I couldn't explain it better.
Posted: 11/12/2004 11:28 AM
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Gigafrost
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
Let's see if I can think of more ideas with the shell... Okay, so you can't bounce off of it to get up...perhaps you can swim vertically straight up, knocking the shell up, and hit the block a little bit earlier (or same time)? Then you could also do something like climb the vine while holding the shell w/o losing time. Hmmm...
07-24-2009: 2595 anime DVDs and counting...
Posted: 11/12/2004 4:07 PM
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Avin
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
Something I've noticed that may or may not be true, but it's seemed to me that swimming with a cape on is SLOWER than swimming without the cape. I've noticed this on Forest of Illusion 2 when playing on a console, where I would sometimes enter the level after dying in a later level because there is a green ! block right at the beginning of the level, so I can power back up by entering and then pressing start and select immediately. However, there is a fish that swims right underneath the block. I've noticed that when I enter the level small, I can easily hit the block and get the feather before the fish gets even close, but if I enter the level with a cape on, I really cut it close, because it seems like I take more time to swim to the block. I don't know if this applies to one particular direction of swimming or what, but it's something you may want to check into. Even if it doesn't save you time on this level to switch to the fireflower, it may well save you time on later water levels where you won't be able to swim through holding something. I THINK what it might be is that you fall slightly faster when you're not equipped with a cape, and so for swimming to an exact height or swimming down, the cape is a disadvantage. I also think it may be the case that if you're falling in general (for instance, in the last room of the Sunken Ship) you fall faster without a cape than with one, unless you manage to be able to take off and fly downward in your kamikaze dive.
Posted: 11/12/2004 9:46 PM
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Avin
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
Another thing... VIPer7, are you aware of all the bugs and glitches archived on this page? http://www.classicgaming.com/tmk/smw_bugs.shtml Some of those would be very entertaining to see done in the middle of your run, especially if you can do some of them without losing time (such as in a sidescrolling level). The only one (I think) that actually saves time might be the glitch for walking through walls on Bowser's Valley 2 in the moving maze. Well there's also the "smashola" one with falling through rotating blocks but I think most people already know that one. The "block factory" bug is already in your video in Donut Plains 2, of course.
Posted: 11/15/2004 12:45 AM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
ok I'm back from my little vacation :) I did some tests about feather/flower/small Mario, and came to the conclusion that both swimming and falling speed don't differ. So, I'll stick to the feather (except for some boss fights). The shell moves very slowly in the water if I kick it, so there's no use for it anymore as soon as I have to swim upwards. However, with the improved swimming style, I could already reach the first vine in Vanilla Dome 2 66 frames faster! I'll continue with it tomorrow, let's see how much more time can be saved in the second water passage. Thanx a lot Avin for that link, I didn't know most of those glitches (the "block factory" I had discovered on my own :)) You're right, the only ones that will save time are the walk through walls glitch (I tried it out in Bowser's Valley 2, it's quite complicated but works fine and should save a lot of time) and of course "smashola" in Star World 1 and some others maybe. Most of the other glitches involve Yoshi, don't know if I can apply any of them without losing any time, but I'll watch out for good spots!
Posted: 11/15/2004 1:10 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Here you can see the new version of Vanilla Dome 2 and the Red Switch Palace In Vanilla Dome 2 I put the key into the hole 97 frames faster, and the red switch was stomped 59 frames faster. I doubt this can be improved anymore
Posted: 11/15/2004 8:20 PM
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Blublu
Player (67)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
Are you sure Vanilla Dome 1 can't be completed faster? I mean the part where you have to stop to flip those boxes. Couldn't you pick up a shell, throw it at the box, kill the shell as it returns, and then duck through the open spot that the shell just created? I haven't tried it but it seems like it would be possible. It might be worth looking into. I guess there's a good chance you already tried this since it seems so obvious but I thought I'd mention it anyway. Anyway, great job so far, I hope you have the persistence to finish the run. It'll be one of the best ever.
Posted: 11/15/2004 9:10 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Yes it seems so obvious and I *think* I also tried it but... guess I didn't try hard enough :P Because now I succeeded it, and that saved 38 frames :). I had to lose 2 of those frames on the world map so that VD2 didn't desynch, but still a 36 frames improvement, thanx a lot for the suggestion! PS: I think the reason why I didn't succeed this last week was that I did not yet know about the X/Y trick. So, I wasn't even able to carry a shell up to that point. That must have been the problem. I will now have a second look at my whole video and see if I can abuse the X/Y trick at another point as well, although I doubt it. ---edit--- You can download the newest version of my video here It contains the improvement in Vanilla Dome 1 and the normal goal for Vanilla Dome 2. I didn't want to just copy+paste the whole first part of VD2, so I did it a bit different this time, actually 3 frames faster. I don't know yet whether I should take the upper or the lower route; upper route means swimming+jumping upwards, lower route means swimming without shell for some time. So the second part that you can see now is not yet final (of course I'll hit a few more more bats during the flight ;))
Posted: 11/16/2004 12:18 AM
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TNSe
Emulator Coder
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norway
schweeeet :D
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