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Former player
Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 88
thanks mugg, i'll give it another shot now!
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/894358654/WL2%20-OoB.vbm I found another way to go out of bounds. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/529841785/WL2%20-OoB.vbm Finishing the 1st level by using OoB glitch in the first room (for demonstration). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1690693758/oob.vbm Finishing the 2nd (1st secret) level by using OoB glitch in the third room. Previous rooms don't allow one to go out of bounds. It's also hard to find a goal in the OoB area which may render the glitch useless sometimes due to taking too long.
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Wow. Just wow. I somehow warped to another stage after "winning" in the last stage with the oob glitch. Also, after returning from a bonus stage, the screen turned black, and only I ended up wandering around blind. I'll post those Wips after some more testing. Last Stage "Warp" Working Warp (As in the stage works without glitches)
Former player
Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 88
this is getting crazy, i wish i had the time to contribute i guess the fastest way to complete it is using the oob glitch as early as possible, then trying to get to the shortest final boss level/boss screen or getting to the ending screen maybe there is an address which says where the doors go to, or are located on the map
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If we can't find anything useful in the OoB area, other than goal doors, maybe we should try to find nearby goal doors in each level and see if reaching them is faster than reaching the real goal. In level 1, Wario is left sleeping so we enter the secret levels. In level 2, the earliest point we can go out of bounds without getting stuck is in the third room but there's no goal nearby (I searched for a long time), so I think this level can be left alone. How about level 3? I will look into this, but feel free to post about your investigations too. Also, I and maybe jlun2 so far only searched in the OoB area randomly without really understanding much how the OoB area works (what it consists of, how it is loaded etc). I have consulted andymac about this game but haven't heard from him about the OoB area. I only know the game uses WRAM (?) to keep track of what rooms consist of. It's not at all like SML2 where every memory address can be reached (theoretically). In WL2, new content is loaded from somewhere (the ROM?) but we don't know how OoB works exactly... edit: This finishes the 2nd level 510 frames sooner by entering the OoB area in the 4th room. Maybe a few more frames can be saved in this level... http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/920831235/WL2-AndyD%2Cjlun2%2Cmugg%20NEW%20WIP2.vbm About this level 2 oob: I noticed that the section around the goal door in the OoB area (in the 4th room) can be reached in the 3rd room but it's very far away. You need to travel several screen lengths... Also, going out of bounds in the 3rd level, 1st room, I end up in the last room of that level (non-glitched, just platforms and walls...). I can go through the door that leads to the previous room and then go back to the last room so it properly loads. Maybe this information helps.
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Sorry for not posting anything, but I've been trying to find a door Oob in "The Really Final Chapter" to see if it can lead to either the exit or the treasure room. Also, I've been messing around with the reset glitch effect and trying to make something interesting out of it due to the fact that it reduces around 20 frames of lag in every room. I'll post a WIP showing what I mean later.
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It would be nice if you didn't write "I'll show WIPs later" all the time :P http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/97337611/WL2-AndyD%2Cjlun2%2Cmugg%20NEW%20WIP3.vbm I tried going out of bounds in the next level (only in the first room and in another room for now). If we go out of bounds in the first room, we have to walk rightwards for a while, until Wario falls in a heaven of coins and ends up in an OoB version of the final room. The final room can also be reached from another room (see the map I made). It is difficult to reach the goal door in the last room. We can "walljump-wallclip" up from below, but only from the small coin passage there is, so we probably need to go upwards on the left side of the final room. Then we go into the coin passage as crouching Wario and glitch into the goal door passage, or we leave and re-enter the room so it loads properly and we can use Flat Wario. http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8725/95309307.png I hope it's understandable. There are 3 routes in purple color that can be considered. I still have to test going OoB in the second and third room to see if the OoB area is different there.
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This is what I mean by the 20 frame improvements. WIP Also, this door ends the 3rd stage quickly. WIP
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I don't think the reset glitch will be useful since you have to go OoB for it and then sit through one more intro sequence... Also, isn't it 19 frames to be exactly? Also, please note: Klmz said WL2 has increased lag between the rooms (~10 additional lag frames) in the upcoming VBA-24. Maybe it is possible to skip these extra frames when using the reset glitch, but I still doubt it saves any time. It may save time in a 100% run, but then again we would use a lot of OoB glitches in the 100% run which skips some loading times. Your goal door makes it impossible to continue to level 4. Try it for yourself. I made a mistake in my previous post. You can't glitch up from below the goal door passage in the last room of level 3, so we're forced to re-enter the room (to become flat Wario). This strategy is 235 frames slower than what you would have had. Maybe we can find a valid goal door in the OoB area where you went. Otherwise we're going to use this movie: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/979134362/WL2-3rd%20level%20NEW.vbm edit: I couldn't find any valid goals. I only found 2 goals which glitched up the graphics and didn't allow me to go on to level 4. So I'm going on with level 4 with the above movie now. edit: I found a nearby door in level 4. However, it brings me to a glitched version of the same level. And entering a goal in that level brings me to another glitched version of level 4. This is bad because we can't reach the last boss like this, and ending the last stage through a goal door - as you know - brings us to a glitched cutscene leading to "go to the cellar - defeat the giant spear man" stage. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/743175901/WL2-3rd%20level%20NEW.vbm So I need to look for a valid goal in level 4. Maybe it is possible to use the goal I took in level 4 and then take another goal in level 5 (which is glitched version of level 4) to go to the real level 6. It needs to be tested. Please tell me if you want to try to improve my current work or try to find other goals that I may have missed.
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MUGG wrote:
Also, please note: Klmz said WL2 has increased lag between the rooms (~10 additional lag frames) in the upcoming VBA-24.
Does this mean we have to wait until the next vba version?
MUGG wrote:
Please tell me if you want to try to improve my current work or try to find other goals that I may have missed.
OK
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Due to some unsolved problems, v24 isn't going to be released anytime soon (this year). And I think we shall still accept runs made with certain old versions (v19, v21, v22, v23, and maybe even v20 as its GBC timing is similar to that of v24) of VBA-rr in a considerable period after v24 is released and adopted here. However, I do realize that it doesn't look nice if a run is obsoleted by a longer one whose additional length comes from the "more accurate" emulation of the game. Therefore, I can release a "preview" version of v24 if you wish to use it for this movie, but I cannot promise that the timing of this game would remain the same when the formal v24 release is out. :p
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
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Good improvement, jlun2. I improved it further but I can't post a new vbm at the moment... (well, it doesn't matter until we get to the final boss). jlun2: Could you try to find a 'valid' exit for level 4? (defeat the giant spear man -stage) Valid exit meaning it brings us to the next stage (not to a glitched version of level 4). I've been trying around a lot but I can't find a non-glitched exit. The only one I found requires going into 2 oob glitch-rooms which takes way too long.. I'm gonna try going OoB in other rooms in lvl 4 tomorrow. klmz: Fortunately, WL2 is very hex-edit friendly. It will only desync at bosses and mini-bosses. I suggest we finish this movie in VBA 23 and update it later on. Or we update it when we get to the boss.
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Joined: 9/7/2007
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klmz wrote:
However, I do realize that it doesn't look nice if a run is obsoleted by a longer one whose additional length comes from the "more accurate" emulation of the game.
I dont think this is really a main issue given how large the improvement is right now. But I think thatthis will be in consideration for other movies. Hopefully not any new ones arent conflicted.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/228057536/new-WL2%20-%20any%25%20WIP.vbm I improved the 3rd level and went on. This is the latest WIP. 5246 frames saved from the published movie.
  • Level 4: I couldn't finish this level sooner. All the goals lead to a glitched version of level 4 (and goals of that level lead to the same). The only clean goal was in a glitch room that was also in a glitch room, and the door that led to this glitch room was 20 screen lengths away. I'm not really sure if I remembered this correctly and I don't have a movie file anymore either. I doubt investigating this will help...
  • Level 5: I took a shortcut, skipping most of the level.
  • Level 6: I couldn't take a shortcut in this level and using an OoB goal leads to a cutscene rather than the credits. Normal doors (which actually work) are very rare in the OoB area so I didn't really bother searching... Maybe this can need some more searching.
This could be a good time to convert the movie to VBA-24 compatible. But personally, I would prefer converting it at a later point when VBA-24 becomes offical.
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There is a problem that stuff in glitched areas might be erroneously reaults of inaccurate emulation, which might cause completely unreal consequences in a TAS. I have recently come across a case where VBA-rr/VBA-M emulate glitched warps in a GBC game differently from other "known-to-be-good" GBC emulators like KiGB and gambatte do. Since we don't want to rely on emulator inaccuracy/bugs, I think it would be better if we could somehow verify this thing....
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
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Testing Wario Land 2's OoB glitch in Gambatte, a more accurate Gameboy emulator shows that VBA is emulating the OoB area inaccurately. I went out of bounds in the 4th room of the 2nd level (the place where the current WIP goes out of bounds for the first time) and I don't wrap around the screen but instead end up in the OoB area as soon as I hit the top of the room. The area is also different from VBA OoB area and seems to have different effects too. I got the "SAVED DATA doesn't work with this gameboy..." message on Gambatte and the 20 frame improvements still work, but the 10 additional lag frames of white screen are still there. Gambatte download: http://sourceforge.net/projects/gambatte/ So basicly, our WIP is dead and we won't finish this until the emulation inaccuracies are resolved or until there is a Gambatte-rr. Thanks and good night people. It would still be a good thing to test this thing on a real gameboy (which can only be done via cheat codes). Please pm me if you have a cheat device and Wario Land 2 and a Gameboy (color/advance). EDIT: Testing the OoB glitch in VBA24 (klmz' debug build which mixed cores from VBA-m and VBA-rr) shows that it works the same as in Gambatte. So probably we just need to wait for an official version of that project to come out.
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Mugg, there's other versions of Wario land 2, right? So maybe, after the release of vba 24, we should test the other versions?
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I just tried the Super Gameboy version, and it seems to be slightly different. Like at the same room you've tried, instead of reseting the game if certain spots are reached, it takes me to another room. Also, there's a wall infront of the slope for some reason.
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I tried the SGB version yesterday too, and it works differently indeed. But I wouldn't consider using the SGB version over the GBC version for the TAS, even if it is faster (unless it is faster by a large margin like 1 minute). I'm waiting for the official version of VBA 24 to be released before I investigate/TAS WL2 again.
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If you'd like to do tests with v24, you can get it here. It's not yet finallized yet. I won't recommend recording your formal run with it.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
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I'm not sure why, but I have a feeling that the OoB areas may be different on the several versions of this game. The versions that exist are: (J)* (U) (UE)** *There's a GameBoy And a GBC version. ** Super GameBoy version Since I'll be offline for the next ~3 days, I'll take the time and test all of them. Edit: Oh, before I go in ~1 hour, MUGG, remember those OoB shortcuts you found? Well, the SGB version seems to be able to do that in VBA-v24-vbam. Here's the file. I'll see if your other shortcuts other than the first one work.
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Haha, I don't even know why I didn't consider the SGB version anymore. I'll be testing.. Might also do some address searching because I love to do it lately. Edit: VBA-24-m and Gambatte seem to emulate OoB areas the same, which is good! Made a lua script for the SGB version. (Posted it on pastebin because the forum glitched it up) http://pastebin.com/9BSHp87M TASed the 1st level here. Maybe I should have waited with it until you are done testing, but whatever.^^ The SGB version lends itself to glitching much better than the GBC version where I couldn't find any goals at all and had major troubles navigating through the glitch area.
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Back. Anyway, in level 2-1, the glitch route is used. In level 2 - 2, the glitch end is located in a different place, and sadly, it leads to a game reset the moment you proceed to the next stage. Edit: Maybe another room might have the exit. In level 2 - 3, the glitch end is also located in a different place, but once again, it fails to properly bring up the next stage. Edit: Maybe another room might have the exit. In level 2 - 4, haven't tested it yet. I'll post the wip of what I have done so far once I look at your wip. Edit: Amazing WIP! I never bothered to search the other rooms, but now it might be worth it! Oh, and here's the wip. I cut off the spear-man stage as after looking at your WIP, there might be an end in another room.
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Yes, the part that is located east/south-east from the last room (see here) seems different. I may look at it again later, but I doubt I can find anything useful... Did you test both of the (J) ROMs yet?
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MUGG wrote:
Did you test both of the (J) ROMs yet?
Nope, but what I did find in the spear man stage, is: * End x 2 - resets game * Treasure minigame - Glitch room * Glitch room * Room that resets the game But no end door that allows the game to continue. I'll check the J gb rom now and see if its the same as the sgb. Edit: It's different.
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