I don't mean for this to sound like a request but I second BombAHead, I'd love to see one for Legacy of the Wizard too. Battle of Olypmus was one game I had as a kid that I could never beat and Legacy of the Wizard was another.
Guh, it's too tough on my right arm. I just finished doing a trial run through Pochi's area and just a bit into Xemn's, but arm started to ache. ><; Shame that, since I pulled a pretty good time on Pochi's bit.
I blame Xemn's bloody power glove of DEATH. That thing's a pain in the butt to wield properly. Especially with hyperactive jumping enemies respawning all over the place.
Then there's the constant problem of keys and money. It's annoying because any time your magic drops below a certain point, the enemies won't give up anything but magic potions to add a bit to your total. So, I THINK, no matter what you do, you're going to be sitting around collecting either gold or keys many times over the course of the run. Which means your magic drains. Which means you'll wind up getting nothing but potions again. Gyar!
I'd still love seeing SOMEONE beat this thing, but my knowledge of the lower levels of the map are almost nonexistant. x.x *scowl*
Figured the game deserved its own topic instead of being stuck at the bottom of another one that didn't mention it until like halfway down. c.c;
Managed to find a REALLY nice site with maps and other random info on the game hyeah: http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/nes/lotw/
But I'm no good at this. I love the game, but I usually just wind up wandering around with one character or another. Usually Pochi, since he's immune to monsters.
As I stated in the other topic, there are two main problems with a speed run for Legacy.
1) Most of the characters are slower than slugs travelling through a glue and molasses cocktail.
2) The item-drop system is screwy.
Now, picking up scroll items will speed any of the characters up to a decent speed. Even Pochi and Xemn.
The trouble comes from managing all of your gear. What I mean is... after your Magic drops below half, I believe it is, enemies will drop NOTHING but Potions to refill it. And since you drain Magic taking enemies out, you have to be REALLY good with manging it. This goes double for Menya, since, while she doesn't need keys after getting the Key Stick, IT eats Magic power up, as well.
So basically, you have to kill enemies for keys and money without your magic-draining attacks reducing your Magic past a certain point.
That's a pain in the ass situation, that is.
Thankfully, there are tons of Inns all over the place. But they still require 10 gold to stay and replenish HP/Magic.
The good news is that you don't have to spend money buying certain items since, if memory serves, EVERY item in the game can be found in chests except the Shield. The bad news is that it's gonna take time either way - whether you kill enemies for the moneys or seek out the items.
Pochi's route is obviously the best first choice, since you can grab the Glove and, providing you have the money, the Armor in his section of the dungeon. That sets up Xemn and his infernal power glove of death, which is usually the cause of my never getting very far in the game. I'm simply no good at controlling glove-powered blocks.
The site listed above DOES have a ton of movies for Xemn's section, but they all need NESticle, which is evil beyond evil.
So has anyone thought of taking up the crown(s) and giving the game a shot? I've always wanted to see a good run.
what i'd recomend is using pochi to get the last of the 4 crowns.
the reason being, the boss dificulty is determned only by the order you pick up the crowns in and pochi can beat the 4th boss very easily compared to the rest of the family.
also most of the charecters can use the power boots, those will save you a great deal of magic since you can use them to kill stuff just by jumping on them.
also if you effect the randomness alot you can get the cross items to clear out enemies fast to get lots of items (money scrolls etc etc)
the downfall of using the scrolls is your weapon fires faster and does less damage, but team that up with the boots and most charecters will have a n easy time.
use of the red cyrstals early in the game would save alot of backtracking.
also you don't need to use Xemm at all, you can beat his area with the girl (much easier)
theres one or two tricky spots where you have to switch from the high jump boots to the matlock in mid jump to break a block, but it can be done.
A really hard game that I only managed to beat a few times
good luck
I would also love to see a speed run of Legacy of the Wizard. There already is a complete map of the game:
http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/nes/lotw/images/mappics/dungeonfull.gif
I've beaten the game with using save states.
For conserving magic, you can use the star shoes
to make it like Mario where you just jump on enemies.
For the mother's area, I still like to stay at inns to
keep the magic high, even with using save states.
Money isn't strictly necessary. The only item you
have to buy is the shield, which you don't need
anyways. All other items can be found, but buying
is usually faster. With some luck manipulation,
having money should be easy.
Keys shouldn't be such a problem. You get the
20 keys early on, and the only place really heavy
with needing keys is the mother's area, but she
has the magic key.
Has anyone - EVER - beaten Demonhead on a real NES? Hell, or emulated, for that matter. O.o Bang's general wimpiness combined with the insanity of bosses and the fact that exploding enemies would need to be manipulated to drop health-restoring items alot so you could walk on through the explosions with little consequence... ><
Personally, I'm jonesin' for a Legacy of the Wizard run right now. Playing in real-time seems to actually be easier than in slow-motion... mainly due to the fact that you'd be holding left/right about 90% of the time and it makes your (at least my) hands really sore after awhile.
Pochi's area is no problem. Go into the dungeon, get the glove, get a crystal (optional? If you go item collecting FIRST, it'd get you out of the dungeon quicker), get the crown, fight the boss, and go to Xemn.
Trouble is, Xemn's area is a royal crown bitch. So many inane glove screens. The whole of his area is almost nothing but block manipulation.
For some reason, I always did Xemn's area after Pochi's... possibly because I know the general area his section's in. The mother and daughter's areas are totally unknown to me. I've BEEN to some of their areas before, but... x.x;
http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/nes/lotw/
It's fairly good, even if the 'walkthrough' doesn't cover a whole lot. If the links still work and people feel like dealing with the dumb thing, there are NESticle movies showing, mainly, Xemn's area, along with bosses and such.
Again, the main trouble is the insipid way items are dropped. Magic takes top priority... so if you're running down on it, you'll get almost nothing but pickups for refilling your magic meter. Poison seems to drop regularly, no matter what you're low on. Keys are dropped most often at the very beginning when you first start out. Your totals are all relatively high and enemies will drop them at a decent rate.
The mother's section would probably prove EASIEST (next to Pochi's) since you have an item that lets you fly and a magic key... both use magic. So basically you just need to keep money up and stay at certain inns along your way... or manage keys and the magic key use well.
When you get the boots and can stomp on enemies, that at least offers a way to keep from spending so much magic at any given time. Some items are out of the way and that's what's going to eat up the most time, I think. Maybe going into the dungeon with a character faster than Pochi to grab the Glove at the start would be good. That page up there has an item hunt section, I believe... so whichever way is fastest.
I've stared at maps and I've played the game so often I've grown sick of it... but I just can't get the girls' crowns. >< I'm totally lost in their sections and I'm not entirely sure why that is.
So anyway, there's MY longass post about a game that would be fun to see. c.c Though Demonhead's vying for position with Legacy at the moment. I dunno if there are any differences between US and Japanese versions (Dragonslayer 4 - Drasle Family) but...
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I found this with using search. I hope it's the right thread ;)
Anyways, I canceled my submission of this game because I now know it can be improved a bit.
However, based on my prevoius run, do you guys have any other suggestions to make it better?
If so, tell me and I'll see what I can do about it.
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1976
Location: Making an escape
Okay, I've done some testing on that ladder at the entrance. It seems that it's fastest to fall from the top, avoiding the ladder, and moving to the right as soon as possible without hitting that platform with the scorpion, even though you bounce twice (at least with Xenm; I'll have to test with Lyll). Looks like you were right with Xenm and Roas. With the mother you could switch to the wings at the last moment and avoid bouncing.
These are some specific concerns with the approximate frame at which they occur.
11000: Falling to the left of the ladder instead of moving to the right would be faster.
30000: There are some fake walls above the ones you used that would allow to to bypass the oncoming ladder. Would it be faster using that route?
56000: Must you stop on those appearing blocks?
73400: Was that delay in grabbing the cross luck manipulation?
82400: Jump down that pit instead of equipping the wings and walking down it. It would be faster.
89000: Saving one key would have been faster than killing an enemy right before the crown.
Now for some general stuff.
1. Wouldn't more liberal use of the jump boots in Lyll's area be helpful?
2. Equip the wings as the mother (I can never remember her name) at the last possible moment to avoid bouncing as often as possible.
3. I believe you could use the crowns to warp towards your destination, but I'm not familiar with where the paintings take you.
I personally like how you beat the second boss with only one hit left. Very smooth! ;)
Must be frustrating, spending all that time getting it right just to be shot down. I know how it feels. :p
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
I've been looking over the route some more and come up with another idea however I'm not really sure whether it will save time or not. The idea would be to play the father first and along the first path towards the glove grabbing the money out of the chest and then using it to buy the magic key in the shop above Keela (the dragon) using the glove to push the block out of the way and flying enemies to get up to it. The reason you would have to use the father first is because of the max gold limit and the fact that along poochies path is the second money bag in a chest and it would get wasted (and the money is definetly needed for spring boots later) anyways its just an idea it may or may not work.
Pros: Avoid long path to get magic key in mothers path
Save 12 keys (6 there and back)
May be able to use one less inn trip to equip magic key or delay a stop until a more convient one is available.
Cons: Have to stay at an inn to equip the fathers glove
Magic key costs 60 money bag is only good for 50
May or may not have to stay at an inn with poochi to equip power knuckle for the boss he will fight.
I believe the bosses go in a set order no matter which crown you grab so poochi would be fighting the boss the father fought in your first run if this is so.
Also after defeating the bosses it starts you on a tiny bit of stairs which you seem to normally climb up wouldn't it be faster to jump up?
When playing raos (the boy) despite having the spring boots you wait and use the enemy to make the first jump I think it would be best to grab the spring boots last so that they start on. Though I imagine this will be changed due to the fact that you will already have the orb unlike in your first run. Also after you teleport on top of the area where the dragon slayer is, it looks like falling down on the right side would be faster then going towards the left the way you do maybe the speed scroll in the chest would even be useful. Looks can be decieving though so we'll see.. good luck
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Ferret Warlord wrote:
Okay, I've done some testing on that ladder at the entrance. It seems that it's fastest to fall from the top, avoiding the ladder, and moving to the right as soon as possible without hitting that platform with the scorpion, even though you bounce twice (at least with Xenm; I'll have to test with Lyll). Looks like you were right with Xenm and Roas. With the mother you could switch to the wings at the last moment and avoid bouncing.
Yeah, I didn't think about the wings actually. One concern I had with these is that they drain magic all the time. In my "current" run I was happy that the timing was perfect when I reached the last Inn with the mother. This can be fixed I believe.
I don't know where the frame counts refer too so I can't answer all of your suggestions.
Ferret Warlord wrote:
11000: Falling to the left of the ladder instead of moving to the right would be faster.
I don't know where you mean. Sorry
Ferret Warlord wrote:
30000: There are some fake walls above the ones you used that would allow to to bypass the oncoming ladder. Would it be faster using that route?
Same here, sorry.
Ferret Warlord wrote:
56000: Must you stop on those appearing blocks?
This is near the crown with Lynn, right? Yes I must stop on these. Or, the blocks doesn't allow me to move until they have appeared.
Ferret Warlord wrote:
73400: Was that delay in grabbing the cross luck manipulation?
Yes it was. I figured that even though it would take some extra seconds it was worth it because I finally got the speed scroll. And yes, I tried to kill almost all enemies around there lots of times to get a scroll, that was the best I could do at the time.
Ferret Warlord wrote:
82400: Jump down that pit instead of equipping the wings and walking down it. It would be faster.
I don't know where this is, probably with the mother though. I'll fix it.
Ferret Warlord wrote:
89000: Saving one key would have been faster than killing an enemy right before the crown.
Yeah, I'll fix that.
Ferret Warlord wrote:
1. Wouldn't more liberal use of the jump boots in Lyll's area be helpful?
Maybe, with the route I used now I had trouble with the magic. I was a the boss first and he drained my magic so I just stand there frustrating and couldn't kill him ;P Jumping boots drains one magic per jump. But I'll check it out.
Ferret Warlord wrote:
2. Equip the wings as the mother (I can never remember her name) at the last possible moment to avoid bouncing as often as possible.
I'll fix that.
Ferret Warlord wrote:
3. I believe you could use the crowns to warp towards your destination, but I'm not familiar with where the paintings take you.
Maybe, I'll check it out.
Ferret Warlord wrote:
I personally like how you beat the second boss with only one hit left. Very smooth! ;)
Thank you ;)
Ferret Warlord wrote:
Must be frustrating, spending all that time getting it right just to be shot down. I know how it feels. :p
Word, but it's good to have suggestions so I can try to make a better run.
Brose wrote:
The idea would be to play the father first and along the first path towards the glove grabbing the money out of the chest and then using it to buy the magic key in the shop above Keela (the dragon) using the glove to push the block out of the way and flying enemies to get up to it
Could be a good idea. I figured taking Pochi first would be the natural choice because the glove is in his path. But it isn't really and you are probably right about the money bag. However, doing this might mean I have to collect more gold. I'll check it up.
Brose wrote:
Also after defeating the bosses it starts you on a tiny bit of stairs which you seem to normally climb up wouldn't it be faster to jump up?
Maybe. I'll try it.
Brose wrote:
think it would be best to grab the spring boots last so that they start on.
A bit same problem here as with mothers wings. They drain magic with every jump. I tried this first but ended up having problems getting items and stuff. I'll check it out however.
Thanks for tips and ideas!
Yes poochi usually is the first choice and may still be. I was just looking into making a way for that money bag to have a use. As for the boy and spring boots i can see the problem with collecting the money you need but i was thinking more along the lines of simply using it just for that jump and switching them off. However if you for some reason are able to start with enough money for the inn needed to equip the dragon slayer it might even be good to keep them on until the last spot they are needed as magic wouldn't be a problem if you didn't have to kill enemies because of that forced inn stop. Anyways I'll keep looking for ways to help.... drive you insane that is :p
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1976
Location: Making an escape
11000: I'm referring to a ladder in Pochi's area where you fall to the left, switch the right side, and hit the ground, when you're objective is to the left. I'm failing to see how this is helpful, especially since switching back to the other side causes you to hit the ladder and break your fall, slowing your descent. Staying to the left is definately faster.
30000: This is referring to the exit of the room of the room where you get the mattock. If you can push the block up a few spaces you could circumvent having to climb down a ladder. I'd check into that.
82400: I'm talking about the room where you pulled that stunt with your magic running out right in front of an inn with the mother (very impressive, I must say); I think it's the room right before the room with the crown. Instead of jumping down small a pit and then equipping the wings, you equip the wings and then walk down it. It's a short distance to cover, but we're here to shave off frames, aren't we? Either way, it's up to you.
Also with the mother, when you take the "big plunge" to Keela's room, you could equip the wings to avoid having to jump over the peak.
I'm seeing quite a few missed oppurtunities with the ladders. Climbing distances that you could fall down, not jumping all the way up, that sort of stuff. Of course, with how short these some of these distances are, it might be slower because of acceleration. Look into it.
Using the wings to prevent bouncing shouldn't have too drastic an impact on your magic. Equipping them for a frame and unequipping them should be faster than bouncing, plus it has no impact on you magic meter.
Onto the subject of the magic key: the shop beneath the mattock in Xenm's area sells a key, but it costs 80. It's less out of the way, but it's price may not justify grabbing it there.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
I did notice the one for 80 gold there but it still looks to me like it would be slower as you have to go in the path underneath and go to the shop and then from the looks of it on the map backtrack a minor bit and go over top I suppose it depends how fast getting to the shop above keelas would take anyways I'm sure its another possibility for him to look into.
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1976
Location: Making an escape
With the current route, it wouldn't matter. Boh passes right over that shop.
Is there some other free file server other than Filespace? It would be helpful in providing some alternate routes.
Edit: I justed tested Lyll on that ladder at the entrance near the beginning and the results are slightly different. Now I'll have to test the mother.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
After doing more testing I've found something else that could prove significant.. A way to beat the game without having the spring boots. I'm not sure of all the possibilities this opens up but I'll look into that more soon for now I'm going to put up two short lil .fcms showing how it would be done.. in the first one it shows Roas getting up there with the spring boots which is what I was originally planning to make getting the dragon slayer faster. However I then tested it with the Lyll and it turns out that she is able to make this jump without the spring boots. I had originally thought that you could only make the jump on the right side and thus would need the spring boots. (sorry didn't think to record her doing it but you get the idea) The second one is just showing the fact that Roas can get the dragon slayer without the aid of the spring boots also. This leaves lots of ideas to explore on how to use the money ect... one idea I have is to use the money to buy the wings in the mothers area allowing you to skip nearly all of the girls area (except to get the dragon slayer) and yes I just tested with the help from enemies it is possible to get to the wings and get to an inn before its absolutely necessary to have them.
ftp://temp:none@atlin.serveftp.com
p.s. oops I was looking at the wrong shop that was selling the magic key for 80 gold.
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
But it seems like it is possible to skip the spring boots anyways?! That's cool, where can I buy the wing boots in mothers area? I can't check it up right now but it really sounds cool.
Yes it is looking very nice, starting to wonder just how much time will be saved by all these things.. anyways to save you the time looking I went ahead and put the map of the mothers area up on the ftp with the shop selling the wings highlighted. The only bad thing I've noticed so far with this idea is the fact that the inn is a very short distance from the shop selling the wings which cost 95 but getting the gold for it probably still wouldn't be too much trouble.
Also I just realized that pochi can't use the power knuckle so you would have to do without against the second boss should you choose to use the father first.. just another thing to consider.. though bosses don't seem to last long either way. You did end the fight with only one life point left when using the father against it but I think that damage could be avoided if you had needed to.
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1976
Location: Making an escape
Buying both the key and the wings would cost 175. Grabbing the money on the way to the gloves requires a few frames worth of pausing. Since we can skip most of Lyll's area thanks to that lion statue, I'd say it'd definately be worth starting with Xenm and purhasing the key and the wings, even though you'd have to raise a quick 25.
Hey, Brose, how might I get an FTP server like that? How risky is it?
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
I also think starting with the father may be the way to go as when I took another look during the path to the wings a chest with keys is grabbed since you won't be going there making up those keys one at a time would be hard. Its also getting hard to judge any improvements now due to so many changes in the route many of the old things mentioned don't even apply anymore hehe.. but since was one of my favorite games growing up I'd like to see it done with the best quality it can be.
You can get a DNS from here : http://www.no-ip.com/ along with a small program found on the download tab, that makes sure when your ip address changes it will automatically update it. (assuming you don't have a static ip) And then all you need is a ftp server program there are some free I use a small and simple one http://www.guildftpd.com/index.php also if you are using winxp pro there is a component called IIS that can be installed by going to add/remove progs - add/remove windows components and putting a check mark next to it. As for security I can't really say .. I haven't had any trouble myself and haven't heard of a great security threat of using a ftp but I imagine it depends on alot of things from your OS (and keeping it updated with security fixes) and with the server you choose. So you may want to look into this area more yourself. Good luck with it :)
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Besided all those new ways to do this I now have some questions about other things. Someone mentioned a ladder in Xemn's area which would save time, where is that?
The best way to descend the long (almost first)ladder was falling, right? Even though I'll have to crash and bounce.
I think Ferret did most of the ladder mentioning but I put up another map on ftp showing a ladder in Xemns area that might be faster if skipped.. and I think it may be what he mentioned in one of his posts.
ftp://temp:none@atlin.serveftp.com
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Im about to start making version 2 now. But I already encountered a small problem. I couldn't make that jump you showed without the spring boots with Roas (or whatever his name is). So it turns out that I must have the boots anyways?
That jump showed with Roas was actually just to show you how to do it with the girl. The girl is the only one who needs up there to get her crown and she is able to do that without the spring boots. Roas can go get the dragon slayer the way I showed in the second one (although I hope alot better then I did it :P) Sorry if I created a bit of confusion. I forgot to record when I did it myself with the girl. So I left the one I did with the boy just to show how it would be done.
