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Posted: 1/2/2005 12:18 AM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
So the girl jumps higher then Roas? I didn't tried much to get up there with him but the tries I did failed. But then it's probably better to get the bots anyways? I have started v2 now but it's gonna take more time then I had expected. Much because randomness is so stupid. Im almost full at magic but all enemies refuse to give me anything than magic refills. Bah
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/2/2005 12:23 AM
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Brose
Joined: 10/30/2004
Posts: 19
Yes the girl can jump higher then Roas with his spring boots on even. The idea was by not buying the spring boots you could avoid that side of the girls area and buy the wings with the saved money but maybe you feel it would be faster to do it a different way. And yes randomness is quite a pain in this game. If it would help any I can show a map with the current route I was proposing. Maybe it would help clear things up for you. And you can clear up which is best for yourself.
~Brose~
Posted: 1/2/2005 12:35 AM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Ah ok. Well, then I think the boots is useless anyways. I also got a pretty good idea about the run now. Just need some heavy luck manipulation to get rid of all magic refills ;P Big thanks for all the help!
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/2/2005 1:43 AM
(Edited: 1/2/2005 5:54 AM)
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Yes, that's the ladder I was talking about in Xenm's area. About the big ladder: It would seem that with Xenm/Pochi and Roas/Meyna (finally got her name!), it is indeed fastest to fall right at the top, even though they'll bounce twice. With Lyll, though, considering how high she bounces, it's faster to use the ladder to constantly break her fall until she can go to the right without bumping into the platform with the scorpion. She'll bounce only once. With any character, moving to the left of the ladder is slowest. Here's the frames the characters can fall before bouncing: Xenm/Pochi: 17 Roas/Meyna:19 Lyll: 25 Experiment with these numbers a bit. You might define "starting to fall" a bit differently than I do, but they around those numbers. I have a couple of minor route suggestions that would be easier to suggest with pictures. One's in Xenm's are (right after that ladder, in fact), and the other's in Pochi's. I'll get them up soon, along with a movie about that ladder. Oh, and could you please do something to make those long stretches of nothing more interesting?
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 1/2/2005 1:59 AM
(Edited: 1/2/2005 2:06 AM)
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Brose
Joined: 10/30/2004
Posts: 19
Ok the route map is up. Hope its all there it was a bit rushed but hopefully its alright. Again its only the basic routes.. detailed would take way too much work :p hope it helps in some way though you probably knew most of it anyways. ftp://temp:none@atlin.serveftp.com edit: The inn that is indicated on the map to equip the glove can be changed that is the quickest one but you may have a speed scroll around that time that could change things.
~Brose~
Posted: 1/2/2005 2:05 AM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
That was quite some work! Well, thanks guys. Some of the things you mentioned I already knew and some where new. I'll try to make something good out of all this. I'll report tomorrow, then I should have got something else then magic refills ;)
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/2/2005 2:56 AM
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Brose
Joined: 10/30/2004
Posts: 19
I just thought of something else. Since it is now possible to do the daughters crown any time after getting the pick. It would be possible to do the mother 3rd making her fight Archwinger. I'm not sure if this would have any benefit at all but when the mother fights her boss she won't have the power knuckle. The girl is able to have the power knuckle which may make killing Rockgaea faster with her? Though I'm not sure how well the mothers less dmg would effect Archwinger fight. (dmg ratings are 2 for mother without power glove and 4 for daughter with power glove) its another thought anyways.. and it thankfully wouldn't change any of the route plans.
~Brose~
Posted: 1/2/2005 3:15 AM
(Edited: 1/2/2005 3:25 AM)
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Alright, got another Filespace account setup (using a new e-mail and the name Hermbletont), and I will remember the password! Okay, here we go. http://www.filespace.org/Hermbletont/SlidingPuzzle.gif This is a sliding puzzle for Xenm; the red line indicates the path Xenm will take; arrows indicate the direction the blocks get pushed. I believe this would be fastest, especially if bypassing the ladder is effective. http://www.filespace.org/Hermbletont/PochiPath.gif The red line is the current path in this maze in Pochi's area; the purple line I know to be faster by sixteen frames. http://www.filespace.org/Hermbletont/LyllsLadder.fcm This FCM shows the best way to get down the ladder with Lyll; I get off the ladder and get back on a frame before bouncing, and get off again. After the second time, I move to the right. http://www.filespace.org/Hermbletont/EnemyWalk.fcm Just a generic technique that would be best for getting through holes one space high; obviously not optimized, and saves only two or three frames, so getting an enemy into position wouldn't be worth it.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 1/2/2005 3:21 AM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
The ladder part looked nice, the "enemy-at-holes" part looked nice aswell but I doubt I will earn much from this, and I doubt I can trick enemies to act like I want all the time. I'll try it though.
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/2/2005 12:52 PM
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Brose
Joined: 10/30/2004
Posts: 19
Yes it all looks nice. I had noticed the pochi part but hadn't gotten around to testing it. Now just to hope the path skipping the ladder is faster so that your block route can be used. Quick note about routeplan map due to the boys warping around I sort of forgot to completely finish showing what to do.. I should have wrote to use the orb as soon as dragon slayer is grabbed and then to go in one of the two inns along the way to equip it (whichever is faster.. likely one above keela) but I'm quite sure you already know this.. just bugs me not to mention it :) *drops a magic refill* :p
~Brose~
Posted: 1/2/2005 12:53 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I already knew it ;P Thans anyways. Half Xemn's area is done btw.
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/2/2005 1:01 PM
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Brose
Joined: 10/30/2004
Posts: 19
Good job! Nice to know the run is going fairly smoothly (luck manipulation aside) Have you found out whether it is faster to avoid the ladder mentioned in xemn's area yet?
~Brose~
Posted: 1/2/2005 1:02 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Not yet. I just spended one hour to get a speed scroll, just to find out that it is pretty useless and not worth the time collecting ;P That's because of all the blocks that has to be moved around.
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/2/2005 1:07 PM
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Brose
Joined: 10/30/2004
Posts: 19
Lol makes me glad you are doing this movie and not me. I hope you can get the speed scrolls towards the end of his section like last time so you can get his crown the way you did it looked very nice.
~Brose~
Posted: 1/2/2005 2:46 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
FCEu just crashed so im taking a break now. But I have almost obtained the first crown with Xemn with a time of aproximately 6:30. I can't compare that with my previous run but I think it's pretty good now.
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/2/2005 11:42 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
It's finished with a time of 21:03, and now Im pretty tired of this game ;P
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/3/2005 4:13 AM
Post subject: Good work
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scubed
Former player
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 155
I just watched the movie. Great job. I wasn't aware of those shortcuts. (I always needed the high jump boots for the sister at that part.) It's great watching all of that crazy zooming around with lots of scrolls.
Posted: 1/3/2005 5:28 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Thank you! Im glad you liked it.
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/4/2005 6:26 AM
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Hamm
Joined: 7/29/2004
Posts: 136
Location: Temple City, CA
I thought I would come in here and add another "I love it" comment. I never really cared much for this game because I found it to be rather hard to complete on a console, but the video is absolutely beautiful. Bravo!
"How can you prove you exist? Maybe we don't exist..." -Vivi Ornitier (Final Fantasy IX)
Posted: 1/11/2005 4:53 AM
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Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
Awesome run, walker. I finally beat the game myself yesterday, and it's really become one of my favorites. The only question I have right now is, looking at Ferret's first image of Xemn's puzzle, what is the benefit of the current solution to it rather than pushing the upper left block to the right? I have some other topics of interest not related to your specific run, and which would probably not be useful anyway. Xemn's area can be completed using Lyll. However, this requires getting the Mattock beforehand- the cheapest one is in Menya's area for 80 gold, but Menya already needs all her gold for wings in the current path, and I don't think that should be changed. Xemn's area can be completed using Menya. However, the corridor which includes pushing a lot of blocks would take forever, and I don't think there's a way to make it quicker. Pochi's area MIGHT be able to be completed using other characters, by getting a ring of invulnerability, or maybe enough speed scrolls to bypass the mimic chest of doom. An elixir might also be an option- there may be a period of invulnerability after being revived. Lyll's area would be impossible with anyone else- you need the Mattock. Menya's area, I'm pretty sure, would be impossible with anyone else- not only would you require many many keys, but you need the wings to get through narrow corridors of spikes- even with a ring of invulnerability, the spikes make you hop and you cannot enter them. I'll try to think of other possibilities for route changes.
Posted: 1/11/2005 8:20 AM
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Spriteless
Joined: 8/7/2004
Posts: 51
a nice little glitch is that you can use the warp home item after getting a crown and before facing a boss... but since you beat all the bosses quickly, they warp you home afterwards anyways, and you already use your warp item and all your gold to good effect I doubt this would be cost effective.
mew.
Posted: 1/11/2005 11:48 AM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Spriteless, how do I perform that bug? That could be very interesting! Blechy: I don't think I will earn much time completing for example Pochi area with anyone else then Pochi. Thanks for suggestions and feedback though. And if you find out anything new I would be glad to hear about it.
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/11/2005 6:00 PM
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Spriteless
Joined: 8/7/2004
Posts: 51
Right after the start of the item getting sound effect, before the world starts spinning when you touch a crown, there's a frame or two when you can pause to switch items, for example, to the warp item.
mew.
Posted: 1/11/2005 6:01 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Does this waste the orb (warp item)? If it does I think it's useless unfortunately. I know where I can find another one but that would take me another minute to get. And I don't wanna collect money for another one, or three.
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/11/2005 6:26 PM
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Spriteless
Joined: 8/7/2004
Posts: 51
It just uses it as normal, so yes. It won't be usefull, but it might look good if you switch to another item, like the power knuckle, instead.
mew.
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