Posted: 2/20/2007 9:08 AM
Post subject: Gauntlet IV
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Mechuyael
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
Hey all, this is actually why I made this account. :) I loved playing Gauntlet IV when I was a kid with my brother, though we really sucked at it. We only managed to reach the 5th castle once or twice, but always died there. I'd be really happy to see someone actually finish this game while making the enemies and dragons look like total weaklings. Plus the music was great, IMO. If anyone has the spare time and is willing, I'd really appreciate it.
Posted: 2/21/2007 5:05 AM
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ZeXr0
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
You should not post request unless you find a request thread, in which case it's totally the right place to post ! But Welcome to the forum ;)
Posted: 2/21/2007 10:34 AM
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Mechuyael
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
Hmm, that's odd. That's the first time I ran into this, and I've read a number of other request threads for specific games. My apologies, and thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Posted: 2/21/2007 7:27 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
A thread for a new game requesting a movie to be done is quite alright, I think, but shouldn't expect much to happen. The best way to get it started is to do it yourself and post something here about your progress. :) Also, welcome!
Posted: 2/21/2007 8:07 PM
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Mechuyael
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
I suppose that if I manage to spare some time I'll try doing a TAS-run, though it won't be optimized or anything, will just be a normal run with save states. I don't really think that I'll be able to dedicate myself to making a TAS-run that's worth publishing. At least not for the next year and a half.
Posted: 2/21/2007 8:49 PM
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ventuz
He/Him
Player (123)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
Yeah, making a demonstration run could interest a player to a create TAS for. and.. Welcome to the board!
Posted: 2/21/2007 9:14 PM
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Mechuyael
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
Thanks. Expect to either see too much of me, or not to see me almost at all. :)
Posted: 2/21/2007 9:27 PM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I too am interested in this game. I just never got very far. ^^; Oh, and welcome to the board. :3
Posted: 2/22/2007 12:32 PM
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (241)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I've beat this game before. Maybe 4 player would be best if it doesn't lag. IIRC, there are 4 towers and you can choose the order to beat them before visiting the last tower, so you'd have to choose carefully.
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 2/22/2007 12:37 PM
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Mechuyael
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
Well, when I played the game as a kid I always went Fire > Earth > Wind > Ice, but that was mostly for the ring in the fire tower that kept you from losing health. I suppose that a TAS-er wouldn't need that ring to keep his health intact. And there's no way that I'll have the time to attempt a multi-player run.
Posted: 2/22/2007 7:04 PM
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lipucd
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 66
Location: ...No clue but its not here....
So then if a speedrun would be done your hoping for the tower mode? :? Uhhhgh......I already have enugh on my plate so i'll not be doing this...but i'll leave it up to others...
Im Everywere!!!.....................................Or am I??? Current Projects: AGH on Very Hard (Alpha-Stage 1 done) GSH on Hard (Beta-Stage4 done)
Posted: 2/22/2007 7:42 PM
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Mechuyael
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
Well, the Tower mode is what sets the game apart from the other Gauntlets I've played, and is the part I enjoyed.
Posted: 3/7/2007 7:06 PM
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Mechuyael
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
Sorry, but it appears that as I feared, college is quite a bit of work, so I won't be able to work on a sort of demo-run for a long while.
Posted: 6/6/2007 2:15 PM
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LSK
Joined: 4/17/2006
Posts: 159
I'm up for this. I prefer doing demo-runs than full games, so I'll whip one up tonight to show people what it's like and see if anyone's interested.
Posted: 6/7/2007 1:16 PM
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Mechuyael
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
That will be very nice. No matter how it turns out, I'll appreciate the effort.
Posted: 2/8/2018 9:14 PM
Post subject: WIP Gauntlet IV quest mode TAS
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numbers
Joined: 2/7/2018
Posts: 4
Hello, I've me and Leracos have been working on a gauntlet IV TAS for a couple of months. TLDR: encode is here Figured I would share some info, we are still doing tons of routing and I am finding new optimizations pretty constantly so I don't think it's ready for submission. There aren't many "tas only" strats in this WIP, although the inherent randomness of the game, health management, knowing the future, etc lead alot of what it does to not be RTA viable. Moving and fighting is almost entirely frame precise for optimal speed through the stages (e.g. frame perfect movement when shooting through a large group of enemies to prevent the other rows from collapsing on your row). Enemy RNG (movement, spawning) is based on frame counters, so any improvement early in the run requires redoing everything after, unfortunately. The dragon kill technique on earth dragon matches the RTA strategy, and is fairly free. Future dragons have slightly different wing hitboxes which combined with a higher speed stat allows a much faster kill which is not remotely rta viable except for the final dragon who has the most forgiving hitbox (it is still pixel precise, X coordinate 223) We still haven't found any useful glitches in Gauntlet IV. Something like an infinite money exploit or a way to clip would be incredibly useful. Buying equipment early would shave minutes off the run. This is my first TAS and I've been working on it for a couple months now, it's been a journey. I hope to submit within the month, but I suspect I'm going to keep finding new optimizations. --numbers
Posted: 2/9/2018 12:29 AM
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leracos
Joined: 2/8/2018
Posts: 3
Hello everyone! As Numbers said, we've been working on the TAS for this for some couple of months now; Numbers has been really doing the actual TAS itself, and I'm more the routing/logistics person. I just wanted to chime in here and give my thoughts as well and any additional information. The current run is certainly a great baseline - the earlier version of the dragon fights were a lot sillier but nowhere near as quick so we opted to go with this setup instead, being the more optimal. While finalizing the run shown I discovered a route difference that does actually save time in Castle, as well as another alternate route in Water tower that we are experimenting with right now. Merchants have been discovered to work differently than originally thought as well, so gold routing is being reworked to use the time saved to obtain equipment at the secret merchant to possibly improve things. Virtually 90% of the current TAS route is of my own research, and during the course of this entire adventure new strats were discovered involving dragons, Fight Ring (sadly, not TAS viable for time), teleporters (credits to a runner named Ratfunk for that one, and also Guggensulli for displaying that it's viable in locations other than we originally realized; we've found other places to apply it since), float ring, magic potions, using the heal drink during dragons (credit to Numbers for that one) and in general a further knowledge on how enemy spawns function. Numbers is more credible for finding a lot of the RAM values and a bunch of frame perfect stuff that the TAS performs, as he is doing all the grunt-work of the run itself. :P I will save all the specifics for the actual run notes when submitted, but a lot of this is relevant to the RTA run as well so this was well worth the effort and has been a lot of fun. We are interested in doing a co-op TAS after fully optimizing this run, as the game is a very different beast with two players. If anyone is interested in the materials for running this for personal use I have maps, notes, and a degree of RAM research available I am happy to share for anyone to use. Just shoot me a PM.
Posted: 2/11/2018 5:58 AM
Post subject: Float Boost Glitch
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numbers
Joined: 2/7/2018
Posts: 4
Well, I found a major glitch in gauntlet IV last night which allows you to hit the in game momentum cap in only a handful of frames, dramatically speeding up the tas (as in, minutes faster). You must have float ring. You begin moving in a given direction, press A to enable float ring, press in the opposite direction to begin decelerating, disable float ring, and press the original direction to turn that deceleration into acceleration. I'll let the video speak for itself: Link to video[/video]
Posted: 2/11/2018 2:29 PM
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GJTASer2018
He/Him
Joined: 1/24/2018
Posts: 251
Location: Stafford, NY
Holy smokes! Can you imagine what a four player TAS would look like with all the players running around like this?! (Assuming it doesn't lag the game to hell and back, of course...)
c-square wrote:
Yes, standard runs are needed and very appreciated here too
Dylon Stejakoski wrote:
Me and the boys starting over our games of choice for the infinityieth time in a row because of just-found optimizations
^ Why I don't have any submissions despite being on the forums for years now...
Posted: 2/14/2018 12:58 AM
Post subject: RE: 4 player TAS
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leracos
Joined: 2/8/2018
Posts: 3
This would greatly resolve issues with the elf being significantly faster than the other characters for sure - especially Warrior and his stunningly spectacular base speed of one. Camera manipulation gets really interesting with just two characters, and with three it gets even sillier; the camera at all times attempts to center itself relative to all characters' positions, so there are likely a lot of fun things you could do with all four of them. The game was very clearly designed to be a co-op game, and built as such. Interestingly, outside of camera manipulation there are a lot of other considerations to take into effect in co-op as well. The first is exits. Each player can enter a separate exit, and the game will recognize the one that was entered last as the 'official' exit and place the characters there for the purposes of gameplay. This is inconsequential for the purposes of XP and Gold received from traps - as long as the character entered the floor alive and exited alive, regardless of when that exit was, they receive credit for all traps hit on that floor. They do not get bonus XP or Gold from enemies killed or chests picked up, which for the RTA and TAS runs is largely inconsequential. The second thing is the dragon. Numbers and I have been playing around in a casual co-op game and the dragon seems to want to always target the nearest character to himself, but this doesn't always prove true. I'm unsure exactly what this targeting is or how it operates, but after I play around with the RTA run some more I will probably spend some time figuring it out. Since all of the current manipulations are camera dependant as well, it requires the characters to move in sync in order to position themselves correct for the first two dragon clips and even moreso for the further ones later on. If a character opts to leave the dragon fight via one of the staircases, they receive the XP and Gold earned for the tower completion (after the dragon's death and exiting the tower) but they do not receive the bonus totals, as before on any other floor, for killing the dragon or picking up any chests. The bonus XP for killing the dragon is actually a pretty significant total as well. Neither the RTA or TAS routes grab chests. The final thing is, as mentioned, speed. On top of the float ring glitch demoed up there, there is a second speed tech also - Fight Ring. If a character uses Fight Ring to punch another character, it gives them a significant amount of forward momentum. In a 4-player TAS, the viable option may be to get Fight Ring and employ that strategy, having the two faster characters (Elf and Valk) punch the two slower characters (Wiz and Warrior) while they float ring around the place as well. The problem with figuring that out is it requires a bit of an extra trip to get Fight Ring earlier, and then a lot of menuing to equip and requip those rings back and forth. I'm still completely interested in doing the 2-player co-op TAS with Numbers, but there are other things on my plate at the moment. I can't give a reasonable estimate for that. I want to get a solid time for RTA first and that's hard for me to do when Numbers and I both keep finding new things. :P
Posted: 2/22/2018 9:55 PM
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numbers
Joined: 2/7/2018
Posts: 4
I've finished a draft of the earth, fire, and water towers Water proved to be a real challenge, you cannot toggle physics on those tiles with the slanty lines there is a water-exclusive glitch which allows you to get a 2 input boost when transitioning off of slip tiles, which is used in several places instead of the 4 frame float ring boost to get more boosts in a shorter distance additionally in some places this WIP wastes time because it cannot counter-boost for cornering purposes, and therefor must manage momentum more carefully (going slower to avoid taking much longer to change direction) dispite all that, this version of water still saved 40 seconds over the fully-optimized version without the glitch(edited) water 4 (starting at 1:25) is the worst example of momentum management being a problem, I essentially gave up on trying to do both RNG manipulation and managing the 2 spots it gets hung up (on this draft) easily spent 5 hours redoing that stage over and over on different starting frames trying to avoid a couple really bad spawns while also moving efficiently but since I'm making another draft after this I was satisfied with a "mostly ok" version for now Link to video Link to video
Posted: 1/29/2020 10:45 PM
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numbers
Joined: 2/7/2018
Posts: 4
I recently "finished" the first segment of the game, saving nearly 20 seconds in this draft over my last. Approaching 2 years since I discovered Float Boost, and I still keep saving time whenever I decide to spend more time optimizing... but I think this is approaching perfect. Link to video[/video]
Posted: 1/30/2020 2:05 AM
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Patashu
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Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4017
Loving the Float Boost strats!
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu