Essentials

  • Emulator used: FCEU 0.98.16
  • Genre: Platform
  • Aims for fastest time
    • Takes damage to save time
  • updated: moozooh's suggested screenshot (the greatest screenshot in the history of the world)

Version Change

Note: This run uses the (U) version of Bionic Commando. The previous movie by Genisto used the (J) version.
The initial reason was to include the hilariously bad dialogue. It has been said that the (J) version is the "harder" version, but we have found that to be not entirely true. There are quite a few differences, some which made the (U) version faster, and some which made the (J) version faster.
Regarding a ROM version change, the Rules page states the following:
If there is already a published video, do not use a different ROM than what it uses, unless the new movie is obviously better for reasons that are not only caused by the version change, or the ROM is superior (or a language change), and you can show how it should be compared to the existing movie.
Since the previous run was done with the (J) version, a direct comparison of end times is not an informative enough way to measure the differences in play. So, we've separated the differences into four categories and totaled them up.
In-level difference - Gained 1463 frames
This is the (mostly) directly comparable improvement gained during each level. Time was gained from better technique for many sections, especially the bosses, as well as retracting more with the grappling hook, which moves the guy a bit faster at the exchange of slightly less distance and less landing control. Time was also gained by keeping the 3-way gun for Area 7 instead of restarting the level.
Some of the in-level difference was due to in-level changes between the two versions, such as different enemy or platform placement. A rough estimation of this difference is between 60 and 90 frames.
Text speed difference - Lost 3185 frames
The text boxes scroll slower and hold more words in this version.
Scene change difference - Gained 110 frames
Minor differences in the number of frames between two controllable scenes, such as the title screen and room transitions. This was usually faster in the (U) version.
Map route difference - Gained 1741 frames
Slower text changes the relative position of the trucks during a given route on the world map, because the helicopter does not begin traveling to another area until the text "Ok. We'll move." is fully displayed, but the trucks begin moving immediately after selecting "Transfer". This allowed for better route on the world map, with more direct routes to some areas, as well as playing one less overhead stage. (This same route in the (J) version will enter six overhead stages.)
Total difference - Gained 129 frames
If you'd like to see a complete spreadsheet of this data broken down for each segment, please ask.

Cardboard's comments

I HAVE PAID MY DUES

JXQ's comments

The Bionic Commando (J) run on this site has been one of my favorites ever since I've been here. It sometimes felt odd obsoleting it.
This game is remarkably stable to hex-edit in early improvements found into a run that is farther along. This game is remarkably unstable with FCEU while rerecording in a laggy area, such as 6, 9, 10, or 11.
Thanks to Cardboard for being my partner, and to Genisto for his previous run.

Truncated: This movie has a better route and much better playing in the levels than the previous movie.
In response to all the arguments about the version switch: I dislike version switches. If it was up to me, the rules would state that all movies be played on (U) versions, unless it didn't exist or (E) or (J) included a glitch or shortcut or game element not in the (U) version. That way we wouldn't have any of this nonsense, or people switching ROMs just because the intro or dialogue is shorter, which has no bearing on the quality of play.
Also because i dislike version switches, I'm glad that this movie has now changed back to the "real" version, which the first published movie was made with, before it changed to the (J) version for no good reason at all.
Bisqwit: I don't think we have reached a concensus about whether this should obsolete the J version or not. I'm putting it on delayed. And, I disagree with the assessment of "no good reason at all"; in my opinion, Feitclub's reasoning re: J version was good.
BoltR: Since there is no rush to make a decision about this movie, and it's just causing an argument; I am setting the status to Needs More Info. We can wait until the updated (J) version is complete and pick up the debate from there. Blame version changing.
Bisqwit: Setting back on accepted, and to obsolete the current J version. However, the question what happens when the next J version is submitted, is still open. Some say only U versions should be accepted from here on, and some say any faster version regardless of version should be accepted. There may be someone who also thinks the next J version should be published alongside, but it doesn't seem to be a likely option. Such decision however does not need to be made until such movie exists and is submitted. However, if this movie is still in the workbench at that time, it will be delayed because then also its fate is in question. (We don't publish movies that already have their obsoleter in the workbench.)
Bisqwit: Processing.


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Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Keeping the 3-Way saves around 100 frames in the level alone. While it is true that the boss fight takes a lot longer time, we save 498 frames on not resetting, and loses 384 on the boss. EDIT: On the other hand we could have saved around 47 frames on the boss using the RL compared to Genisto, so that makes the gain smaller. Nevertheless a gain.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
I found this very entertaining, regardless of version. Yes vote.
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Banned User
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
This TAS will explod in 60 seconds. Don't forget the chara-designe! (okay, I've never seen this game before. But it was interesting to watch, so voting yes.)
Perma-banned
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Boco wrote:
Well the latter has the correct ending (inaction instead of murderous rage).. and has stage names (or whatever those are).. and both titles have an 'M' in them so they bypass normal delays.
I agree with your last two points, but how could murderous rage be incorrect? The murderous rage is awesome!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
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Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [839] NES Bionic Commando by Cardboard & JXQ in 14:03.38
Joined: 4/24/2007
Posts: 2
At the last stage when you return to the first elevator. (ca 10min,54sec) Is it possible to, instead of going down with the elevetor go up with it and the get of it like you did the first time (10min, 26sec) and then go under it and drop down.
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
No. We spent about one evening each trying that, but the game seem to treat the elevator shaft as a strange area where you must stand on the elevator :( Edit: Actually, the elevators have quite a freaky physics/attraction level overall, so I suppose that was the problem here. They seem to always throw Ladd upon them :/
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Joined: 4/24/2007
Posts: 2
It doesn't surprice me that you already tried it. It is a great run.
JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
I noticed that this run didn't keep the previous run's star. I thought that was automatic now, so I guess it's just been removed manually. I think it's a bummer, I've always thought this was a great star candidate. Especially for me, Genisto's run was a very effective early movie for me to watch as a beginner to understand how different a TAS could be from normal play. Anyway, thanks for the quick publication. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't surprised.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Player (88)
Joined: 1/15/2006
Posts: 333
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
JXQ wrote:
I noticed that this run didn't keep the previous run's star. I thought that was automatic now, so I guess it's just been removed manually. I think it's a bummer, I've always thought this was a great star candidate. Especially for me, Genisto's run was a very effective early movie for me to watch as a beginner to understand how different a TAS could be from normal play. Anyway, thanks for the quick publication. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't surprised.
I considered posting this earlier, but felt that it was irrelevant after the status had been changed back to 'accepted'. Where I'm coming from: I've never played this game before, nor had I ever heard of it before discovering nesvideos. Of the starred videos, this was one of the last that I watched, mainly because the screenshot was a little lame (looked like a guy crawling up a group of barrels or something?). I was really surprised when I watched, because there was a lot of action, and grappling hooks (can you possibly go wrong with grappling hooks?). As I do with most new submissions that I enjoy (if they're short enough, and particularly in this case because there was so much debate over the version switch), I watched the previously published run directly after this submission. Things I noticed: - (J) had an occational swastika in the background. - (U) had a different (noticably better) route. - (U) had one less Truck Battle (arguably one of the most boring parts of the run). - (J) had more platforms in one of the areas, although I couldn't say if this made the run faster, or actually hindered the player. - In general (although also possible in (J), I would assume), the player moved more quickly through the levels. - Both versions clearly depicted Hitler's head exploding at the end. Things I wouldn't have noticed unless I had been told: - (J) had faster scrolling text (somehow, sitting through 2 seconds more text that I can actually read now and then doesn't seem any slower than having to sit through text that I can't read at all, even though it is slightly faster). - The superior route (and the skipped Truck Battle) was a direct result of the text speed difference (and therefore the version change). Things I didn't notice even though I was told: - (J) apparently has more enemies. I really didn't notice. I suppose this is probably because I was watching the player most of the time. In conclusion, I found every aspect of this run, including the rom choice, superior to the previously published run, so I voted yes. I realize that my opinions are not shared by everyone. But for every person who enjoys the 'authenticity' of seeing an occational swastika in the background, there will be another who would prefer not to. The majority probably don't care. For every person who argues that faster text should be perferred over slower, but readable by most, text, there will be another who will argue exactly the opposite. Once again, the majority probably don't care. These factors aside, what remains is the perceived 'difficulty' difference of the two versions (which has been shown not to heavily favor either version), the superior route seen in (U), and the absence of one Truck battle in (U); both of the latter no one seems to care about, which frankly, I find to be very odd. As I said, previously I had decided not to post all this, because I thought it to be irrelevant. I am posting it now, because I see no reason why a superior run (and it is superior, otherwise it would not have obsoleted the existing run, or?) should not have a star if it replaces an inferior run which had.
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Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
primorial#soup wrote:
I see no reason why a superior run (and it is superior, otherwise it would not have obsoleted the existing run, or?) should not have a star if it replaces an inferior run which had.
I personally would vote (if it is a vote) that this run not be starred, just because of the truck battles. The starred runs are supposed to show off what we can do with tool assistance, and I think walking around on autofire and shooting everything 200 times more than needed and missing a ton of shots isn't what we can do with tool assistance. Phil's short WIP which takes a "one shot = one kill" approach to killing everything in that same truck level is a much better demonstration of the "cool, superior efficiency" of tool assistance. So sure, through the levels this run is better, but in the "free" time it's less entertaining, so I don't think it should have star. What other wire games have stars? Does one of the Umihara runs, or Ninja Five-O or something? This is a good game to be starred, but one wire game might be enough.
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
Boco makes a valid point, despite exaggerating it to the point of fucktarded. Either way, I would appreciate the rationale of the removal. I think this is just a courtesy to the audience, since the stars are decided by one person. Lastly, though mostly unrelated: Cardboard and I plan on improving this run at some point in the future.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
JXQ wrote:
I noticed that this run didn't keep the previous run's star. I thought that was automatic now, so I guess it's just been removed manually.
Yes, I removed it manually. I occasionally change the stars, it is nothing to be alarmed of. It's not a trophy; it's a content management feature.
JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
I still think a rationale would be appropriate and courteous, but you obviously disagree since you avoided the question. At least I tried.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
JXQ wrote:
Lastly, though mostly unrelated: Cardboard and I plan on improving this run at some point in the future.
I hope you will give me some time to finish Hitler no Fukkatsu. I was wondering if I should do Bionic Commando too to help people compare the differences. Oh no, your video can't be compared since I can improve it.
JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
I don't understand what you mean by your last sentence, could you reword it? Edit: I think I got it after a few re-reads. To answer your question: No.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
"No" for my 1st or 2nd question? Edit: If not clear: 1st. Will you give me some time to finish it? 2nd. Is it a good idea to do both so it will be easier to compare?
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
primorial#soup wrote:
can you possibly go wrong with grappling hooks?
Haha, this is so true. I can't think of one grappling hook that wasn't awesome. Well, the ones in the GC Metroids are pretty lame. Anyway, Phil, please use the (U) version. You're begging for trouble if you use the (J) version. If you make a run using the (J) version now, you will have no one else to blame but yourself if it's not accepted. The rules have been changed to favor (U) versions of games.
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
Kyrsimys wrote:
Anyway, Phil, please use the (U) version. You're begging for trouble if you use the (J) version. If you make a run using the (J) version now, you will have no one else to blame but yourself if it's not accepted. The rules have been changed to favor (U) versions of games.
Really? That's not just your opinion, that's a consensus that has been reached? Reading the description of this movie, at present, suggests no such paradigm shift has taken place.
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Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Last I checked there wasn't a concensus reached at the "official" petition, and that all sorts of options were still up in the air.
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Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
The Rules have been changed. It's still not absolute, but clearly states that you should use the (U) version unless you have a VERY good reason not to (which Phil probably think he has, even though I don't think that many people agree).
Player (66)
Joined: 3/29/2005
Posts: 229
Location: The boonies.
After re-downloading the video for this game on SDA, I can see why the star was removed. I still like this run, and I still think it's much better than the run on SDA, but really it doesn't show off what tool-assistance can do like most of the other starred runs do. (E.g: Umihara Kawase is difficult to play, period, let alone actually be good at. At least one of the short cuts the published run uses would be maddening in real time, if not completely impossible. And every level is played like that, to some extent or another. It's jaw-dropping. This? Not so much.) Though, like Phil, I'd still like to hear if I'm right about that. =D
If life were an RPG, I'd be an NPC.
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