Joined: 6/26/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Kuopio, Finland
I'm pretty eager to try a Splatterhouse 3 run.
I have stages 1-4 in the bag, but I cannot find the shortest route of stage 5.
I always get lost in there, messing up the whole thing..
If you know the shortest route of stage 5, I'd appriciate.
My first try resulted a 40min run ^.^ that's way too long tho. I think I wandered 12 mins in stage 5..
<edit>
oh, and I play with Game Master difficulty so there's LOTS of enemies and they come in more harder forms so It's gonna be like 30min run anyways. (or more...) and I try not to take hits .. but in two rooms I have to take damage (poltergeist and ghostly faces) because it's just damn impossible to dodge all of em.
Has anyone looked at this game? It's almost nothing like Splatterhouse 2. It's still as gruesome as ever, but it's a fighting game more like Final Fight than the other ones. I might not be able to fully do a run (probably would have a bit more time on my hands after graduating "A" school), but I'll help as best I can. The paths for all the levels are the same, and the shortest route is almost always the fastest, once you get past the fact that enemies take slightly longer to kill. (TAS'd, you wouldn't worry about defenses, since you can manipulate and time attacks to get past them)
I'm working on a short test run for the first level (played realtime to show what it's like), then possibly another run using tools to show what it *might* be like. I'll post those as they come along.
Rick has a monster form you can transform into by picking up Eldritch Orbs to fill up your energy, then hit A to transform. He's slower, but far stronger and a bit more defensive (not like taking damage saves time) in this form. Once you clear a room, though, you lose any power left in your meter and go back to normal (if you were normal, you get to keep all your stored energy). The shirt even un-rips itself. :0
The good (and possibly bad) news is that the two most powerful moves in the game are very easy and fast to perform, and they make you invincible for the duration of the animation. As normal Rick, the spin-kick takes 3 frames to do (left, right, attack, or right, left, attack), and lasts for... I'll get a count on the number of frames (about a second-ish, current frame count looks to be just over 60).
As monster rick, it's a 5-frame entry, and you double the left/right inputs. The super attack with monster rick is faster (53 frames) and FAR more powerful, and can nearly one-shot things through most of the game.
Annoyingly, bosses block and dodge heavily (and have extremely and highly annoying attacks that just get in the way too much realtime).
There's definitely still going to be variety in the game. Normal Rick's spin-kick doesn't kill everything, so that can be chained into combos with a few extra punches and some body-tossing, etc. There are lots of different attacks in this game, as opposed to the slide, punch, and jump kick in the second one.
*starts doing RAM searches for various values*
EDIT: The rom names for this game are kinda wierd. I use Splatterhouse 3 (U) [c][!], which I think is correct...
Being the Splatterhouse fan I am, I would love to see this (this one is my favorite). I likely can't add much, but I would like to point out that the Gut Launcher (my name for the Monster Rick power attack, not counting the piledriver) only requires you to press back, forward, back, and the attack button. I'm not familiar with frame counts, but wouldn't that make it 4 frames instead of 5?
Also, just to put this out there, the Japanese version of this game has a Roundhouse instead of the Spin Kick and the move is very fast, but does pathetic damage. In Monster Rick form, using the Gut Launcher consumes a large amount of your power gauge. There's also some Engrish (if that's the term), for anybody who cares. :)
I just thought I'd throw that out there, in case that means anything to which version you use. Personally, the Japanese version was more annoying then truly difficult, so I'd stick with the U.S. version on Game Master.
Oh, so it's just 3? I thought it was 4. Silly me.
It sounds like the U version has some advantages as far as damage goes (you can use the gut buster thingy almost repeatedly, with very little drain on the energy meter).
I'll test how much harder the enemies are to kill on Game Master. Realtime, for now.
Well, sad to say, but the game (U.S. version at least) is still pitifully easy on Game Master. :/
I'm not sure if you'd want to make this a goal of your movie, but to add entertainment value, you might want to consider going for the Stage 2 skip version of Stage X that comes after Stage 1. The reason is because last time I checked (with emulator slowdown), you get about 10 seconds of error on Game Master. Because of this, I've never done it in realtime on that difficulty (though Normal and possibly Difficult are simple enough).
Also, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to skip the other versions of Stage X or not, since they suck quite a load of time. The problem is, they seem to be a natural reward for not playing like an idiot, which makes them difficult to avoid (or so it seems). I'm not sure exactly what you need to do to trigger them though.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/52189833/Splatterhouse%203%20realtime%20test.gmv
Damn, more enemies, and most of them don't die from a single spin-kick. Those hunched-over looking guys in the second room . It would DEFINITELY bring more variety to the game to try and kill them all in a timely manner.
Also, yes, I can verify that the Gut Buster is 4 frames worth of input. It lasts for less than a second and stuns everything on the screen. There are some really annoying enemies later in the game that can basically phase out and become invincible (as well as get behind Rick) when you try and attack them, so some interesting attack timing would be in order for them.
And yes, those big jaw monsters in the room before the long hall are that easy to kill with the spin kick. On any difficulty. Doesn't work on bosses, since they can all jump/dodge/phase/something. The first boss didn't block for me (but he can't block the gut buster!), but he reappears as a normal enemy in most levels after the first.
If someone could help find some RAM values that would be of use, that'd be greatly appreciated. It seems that trying to find a health value isn't working. I tried doing search -> no hit -> equal -> hit -> less than -> hit -> less than, but it emptied my list. I also tried hit -> search -> hit -> less than, but doing that emptied the list before they died. Maybe someone could help?
>If someone could help find some RAM values that would be of use, that'd be greatly appreciated. It seems that trying to find a health value isn't working. I tried doing search -> no hit -> equal -> hit -> less than -> hit -> less than, but it emptied my list. I also tried hit -> search -> hit -> less than, but doing that emptied the list before they died. Maybe someone could help?
Did you try more than one variable size, that is, 1 to 4 bytes? Try using "different from" instead of "less than" if it still doesn't work, the number might be going up until it hits a certain number where the enemy dies. Good luck.
What were you doing (down to the frame count) to make that work? That could be used in a few places to help round up enemies faster (door doesn't open until all the enemies are dead).
Joined: 6/22/2007
Posts: 181
Location: Eastern Michigan University
IMPblackbelt wrote:
What were you doing (down to the frame count) to make that work? That could be used in a few places to help round up enemies faster (door doesn't open until all the enemies are dead).
I'm not sure the actual frame specific procedure, but all I did was rapid fire my arrow keys, you get stuck in an animation.
Sorry it's been so long trying to put out a demo of the first level on Game Master. I'm getting some wierd stuff when I try to do attacks in frame advance. It's not counting the inputs for some reason, maybe lag. I'm working on it, though. Just really, really wierd. Some instances, I can do a perfect 3-frame input and get a spin kick, and others it just makes me punch facing away from the enemy.
Also, I've been VERY busy working on watch qualifications and study. It's my job, and there are serious repercussions for not doing my job. I don't get fired, I get punished, which makes my life more miserable, and gives me even less time for things like this. So... bear with me here, I'm trying. :(
Some notes, though!
-- I did notice that (lag permitting) precision and attack recovery for normal attacks are pretty good. A normal punch can stun momentarily and give a chance to move in for a better attack.
-- Attacks against you have a 1-frame window before they actually hit. In the video I'm working on, an early enemy throws a punch and gets it right where it should hurt, but my spin-kick initiates and makes me invulnerable. This could be very nice for some closer range.
-- I keep experiencing this wierd glitch on the enemies that appear in the first room (regardless of where they actually appear, I've only done it with those specifically, color included). Doing a jump kick on them and hitting going up or down instantly kills AND initiates the death animation for them. This might save a LOT of time if I can figure out what causes it, and if it works on other enemies. If I have a recording of it, or if I can get it to work during a recording, I'll demonstrate it.
--The spin kick will definitely NOT be the only attack I use. Grabs and throws or headbutts will definitely be useful for finishing off stuff without losing control for an extended period of time.
--Bosses (and certain other enemies) will always (pretty sure) do some sort of jump, slide, warp, or charge to get away from a wall. These movements are the same distance each time they're used. (like the first boss will do some spin jump and land a set distance horizontally, the second boss will do a slide and move a set distance away, etc.) It also takes the same amount of time for the attacks. This should make it relatively easy to kill them.
--I haven't confirmed this, but places like GameFAQs talk about skipping levels by beating a level fast enough. They say it doesn't work on the first level (coincidentally, the only level I've gotten to LEVEL X after), but should work on every level after it. All it is, really, is a short, untimed level with a few jaw monsters and extra lives in it. If the level skip is true, it may be worth it to beat the levels fast enough to get to LEVEL X as much as possible.
EDIT: Here is the test. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/231553632/Splatterhouse%203%20Game%20Master%20test.gmv It's a pretty bad test. You can see where I *tried* to get the spin-kick to work and failed. Got frustrated somewhere early and just decided to go realtime. Still, this test proves a few really good points, including a new one I'm about to make.
--It's definitely going to be NECESSARY in a TAS to have energy to turn into Monster Rick for bosses and major fights that can take a long time. That boss that I beat takes almost a minute to kill with a death (which also takes a LONG time) and no energy (dying drains it all). Powered up, it only takes about 6 or 7 power attacks to do that one in, but it takes nearly a minute without. Power will need to be stored for long fights, especially bosses.
The other points I can show in this video are the boss behavior and need to combine attacks. I do see, though, that the spin jump that one uses has 2 different lengths of travel, though. Keeping these in mind, making a fairly quick run shouldn't be too terribly hard, aside from killing things in a quick manner.
--Bosses (and certain other enemies) will always (pretty sure) do some sort of jump, slide, warp, or charge to get away from a wall. These movements are the same distance each time they're used. (like the first boss will do some spin jump and land a set distance horizontally, the second boss will do a slide and move a set distance away, etc.) It also takes the same amount of time for the attacks. This should make it relatively easy to kill them.
I like using this to kill the "Evil One" in Stage 5, personally. Jump kick to knock him down, get him in the loop, and kill with headbutts/choking. Good fun.
IMPblackbelt wrote:
--I haven't confirmed this, but places like GameFAQs talk about skipping levels by beating a level fast enough. They say it doesn't work on the first level (coincidentally, the only level I've gotten to LEVEL X after), but should work on every level after it. All it is, really, is a short, untimed level with a few jaw monsters and extra lives in it. If the level skip is true, it may be worth it to beat the levels fast enough to get to LEVEL X as much as possible.
Level skip (to my knowledge) only works on Stage 1, and I mentioned this earlier. Just beat Stage 1 fast enough that the Boreworm doesn't get his chance to infect Jennifer, and you'll go to an alternate Stage X than usual. This one has no map and multiple rooms, but ends when you kill the boss. Obviously, you'll skip Stage 2 because the Boreworm didn't do anything.
Stage X after that is always the same 1 room place with powerup goodies and usually fatty monsters. I've done the Stage 2 skip many times, but I've never skipped anything else, so I don't believe it's possible.
Like I said before though, if you can find some effective way to skip the standard Stage X types, you'd probably save time.
EDIT: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1003187372/Splatterhouse3Test.gmv
Finally, a test of the first level. It was done on various slow-down speeds (since frame-advancing was doing wierd stuff, rather than stuff I wanted it to do). I did take damage, yes, but some of it was unavoidable, and some I was just too lazy to fix. Still, it took a few to get the enemies and controls to do what I wanted, but it finally went. Looking at this, I can see several definite, viable strategies for combinations of attacks.
I was hoping for more than 3 minutes on the clock (I think that might be the cutoff for Jennifer's infection). I got 2:56 on the clock at the end, and I know that it IS possible to have 3 minutes left on the clock. However, I think that it would be more interesting to see the actual second level and fight the Great Boreworm, rather than fight a bunch of really tough enemies and not have the variety the game was created with... Still, it'd be quicker. Two possible categories? Iunno, that'll get banged out later, I guess.
Also, I know it's not frame-perfect. I suck at frame-advance, and the menu is nowhere near perfect. It's been a rough couple of months in class, and it's only going to get tougher, so expect this to be the last progress for a while. I don't know if I'll be able to come back for more later, too. x.x; If anything, I hope someone picks up on this.
I've actually done a test speedrun of this as well. Unfortunately, the gmv is on another hard drive, but I can offer some of my experiences.
By and far away the most powerful move in the game is Mutant Rick's tentacle attack; it covers the entire screen, does serious damage + knockdown, and keeps most bosses pinned down if used with proper timing (great for level 3's teddy bear). Your entire run should focus around proper use of Eldritch orbs and abusing that move, since most of the enemies in the later stages get extremely tedious to kill using standard Rick attacks. The animation where Rick powers down into standard form can be skipped by being in a doorway when it opens.
I was hoping for more than 3 minutes on the clock (I think that might be the cutoff for Jennifer's infection). I got 2:56 on the clock at the end, and I know that it IS possible to have 3 minutes left on the clock. However, I think that it would be more interesting to see the actual second level and fight the Great Boreworm, rather than fight a bunch of really tough enemies and not have the variety the game was created with... Still, it'd be quicker. Two possible categories? Iunno, that'll get banged out later, I guess.
The cutoff point (when the end-of-level theme plays) for the first level is indeed 3 minutes. However the game cheats and makes you waste 12 seconds on the first boss's wake up and 4 seconds on its death, so you need a big margin of time going into that boss room.
I would skip the Great Boreworm fight, I always felt that letting Jennifer get infected was a sort of failure.
I did take damage, yes, but some of it was unavoidable
I took no damage on my run thanks to the spin kick and another random fact: Rick is invulnerable when picking up something.
The only rooms in the game where taking damage saves time are the possessed bookcase room on Level 3 (only near the end, the rest can be jumped over or otherwise avoided), the giant hand room on Level 4, and the souls-in-the-floor room on Level 5. All other situations can be resolved by Rick twirling towards freedom.
Stage X after that is always the same 1 room place with powerup goodies and usually fatty monsters. I've done the Stage 2 skip many times, but I've never skipped anything else, so I don't believe it's possible.
This is incorrect. There is another version of Stage X that will warp you back to Level 2; I stumbled across it when I froze the clock using cheats. It's been a while since I played, so I forgot the level that has this trap stage...
This is incorrect. There is another version of Stage X that will warp you back to Level 2; I stumbled across it when I froze the clock using cheats. It's been a while since I played, so I forgot the level that has this trap stage...
Interesting, since in my many playthroughs, I've never seen such a thing. Doesn't seem to make logical sense to warp to Stage 2 (to me), but I guess I should play around with the game some more and see if I can find it.
Also, while this is something I didn't think was possible anyway, I decided to test saving David in Stage 3 with tools (Game Master and Easy). Nothing I did caused a Stage 4 skip, and I even tried some sort of crazy pacifist idea (when just time didn't do it) on the Teddy Bear with some crazy logic in mind.
I'm not sure if it was just me, but when it comes to going up through doors while morphed, I had to jump at the right time. The game will suck you in at some point of your jump. I suppose this could be because even if you hug the upper wall, he still has to move a bit to get through upper doors.
[Edit]: I see what you mean about the "trap" versions of Stage X, but for me, it takes me back one Stage each time. It also produces odd scene placement, with Jennifer's "hiding from the monster" scene showing up the first time I did it (from Stage 5, I believe). It also goes directly to Stage X when you do it, with no scenes at all beforehand.
It appears to be an anti-cheating tool, if you ask me. The reason I say this is because if you allow just 1 second to pass before the Stage ends, you will proceed as normal. If the clock is perfectly at the initial time, you go backwards. Obviously, this wouldn't be possible without cheating, so that is what makes me think that.
Also, while you can't skip Stage 4 (to my knowledge), you can skip Stage 3. The only problem is, it seems to require going to Stage 2. Pretty interesting, since I had never done this skip before.
I was playing on Easy (just because it's not as tedious) and by killing the Boreworm with 3:00 or higher on the clock, I was able to go directly to the basement. Might be worth doing that instead, since Stage 3 is likely longer than Stage 2. Then again, wasting time to let Jennifer get infected would be a factor to consider as well.
As a neat side-note, they somehow managed to screw up David's name in the Stage 3 skip scene. "Davids!" :)
From what it seems, it's possible to skip most stages using this, but only one at a time.. If it were possible to skip stage 5, which I'd have to wager against, then I'd definitely go for that. It's either stage 5 or 3, with 2 being a close second. Since we know 2 works, I'll stick to that until we verify it works with another stage.
Woohoo, weekend. Time to relax and get some of this pounded out. Since Molotov chopped the time on stage 1 down to 3:14, I'll work on it a bit to see if I can improve it. I'll also take a look at stage 3 to get some runtime on it, maybe get a chance at this invincibility glitch Okaygo clued me in on.
Apparently, there's a glitch with movement when you rapidly tap a movement key to one side or the other. It freezes your current sprite, and you're invincible with certain sprites (the one for being struck, for example). I've seen this glitch create movement at full speed, as well... Might be useful for skipping the haunted bookcase room.
Hi guys, I know it's been a while. I'm sorry, I've been so busy with keeping my grades up and trying to maintain military standards at the same time, I haven't had a lot of brainpower for this. I may try to pick this back up some time in the near future, but it may not be possible right now. I'll keep you guys posted if I decide to try and actually pick this back up for real, but I'll go ahead and play around with some stuff in the meantime.
Ok, so i'm well in the middle of running this one, well two different versions really.
So far from what i can speculate upon a run on the US version would be much faster by far, but as far as entertainment value is conerned, i'm not so sure,
The spin-kick maneuver it the strongest attack, but its so repetitive, however, the run on this version is still pretty solid, i found a couple of time saving tricks by hanging around doors before transforming back to normal you can skip the animation in the us version, it's a useful tactic.
I'm considering sticking with the another version (Splatterhouse Part 3 (J) [b1+C]), it's already over a minute faster than the only other TAS run i saw on youtube on the same version --- The only difference between the two is that the 4x spin kick moves doesn't exist.
Its just much more entertaining to watch i think, there's much more monster cruelty, i'm having issues uploading movie files, all of a sudden i'm getting a bk2 format.
Nothing to fear but fear itself - Franklin D. Roosevelt
I guess if you want a Japanese version, you should use Splatterhouse Part 3 (J) [c][!].gen, the one with a [!] good dump mark, as those are the site's standard.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
so the [I] is a good dump, i never knew that, i think i'll re-run anyway, there was some improvements to be made, on the jap version, i'm clocking in at the 25 minute mark after killing the embryo boss.
think i'll roll with that idea, its pretty boring to watch the us version run, its 10 mins faster but kinda dull since i abuse the super kick a lot.
Nothing to fear but fear itself - Franklin D. Roosevelt
I would prefer the US version, simply because that's the version I played. Yes, that means the movie will consist of spinkicks, breadsticks (that's the super attack when Rick is powered up), and a few gut punches, but I would still watch it. Are you playing on Game Master (hard) mode?
One thing I've wondered about is whether or not it's faster to sacrifice some time in stages to avoid Stage X, or if it's faster to just blitz through the levels and the Stage X afterwards. Also, there are many different paths through each stage, so finding the fastest path would be one of the most important things.
I can't comment much more without any movie, but I do recommend you check out the WR speedrun, if you haven't already. He beats it in 22:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8bw1l0jeDo
I can't comment much more without any movie, but I do recommend you check out the WR speedrun, if you haven't already. He beats it in 22:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8bw1l0jeDo
I've actually beaten that time. Here's a link to the newest record.
I'd love to see a tas of this, so if you(or anyone else for that matter) are still interested in doing this, I'll help in any way I can. For starters, here's some info on the US version(Game Master difficulty):
HP RAM addresses
Rick: 00FF00B2
Enemy 1: 00FF5EC4
Enemy 2: 00FF5EC6
Enemy 3: 00FF5EC8
Normal Rick Moves Damage Notes
Punch 8
Throw 16
Jump Kick 16
Headbutt 24
Throw Down 48
Spin Kick 80 64 versus "Big Enemies/Bosses" (marked by asterisk)
Mutant Rick Moves
Punch 8
2nd Punch 16
3rd Punch 40
Choke 32
Throw 32
Jump Kick 32
Ab Jab 120 Down+Attack while Grappling
Power Move 120 Back, Forward, Back, Attack; does 248 verus "Small Enemies"
Megaton Driver 120 Down+Jump while Grappling
Weapons Locations
Bat 32 3-4
2X4 32 1-15
Brick 32 1-9, 2-6, 3-11, 4-3, 5-9
Pipe 32 5-17
Knife 48 4-9
Sword 48 2-11
HP by enemy color
Rick – 256
Headless Zombie
Flesh – 48
Grey – 96
Screaming Mimi
Flesh – 144
Grey – 144
Purple – 192
Red – 192
Top Heavy
Flesh – 192
Green (Stage 2) – 288
Purple – 288
Green (Stage 3) – 384
Grey – 384
Red – 480
Bellyache*
Flesh – 192
Grey – 192
Green – 384
Red – 768
Birdo
Flesh – 96
Grey – 144
Red – 192
Zombie Dog*
Flesh – 192
Red – 384
Grey -768
Bag Head* – 336
Foul Beast*
Flesh – 288
Red – 480
Brown – 576
Bosses
Foul Beast – 768
Giant Boreworm – 768
Teddy Bear – 576
Fetus – 960
Evil One – 1056
Terror Mask – 1344
Other useful information follows:
Only bosses can block. Foul Beasts are just palette swaps of the first boss, so they keep the ability to block as well, unfortunately.
Bag Heads don't block, but can go "through" attacks. They can still be grabbed, though, which makes this optimal barring amazing luck.
Red versions of enemies are generally much faster and like to go in for the kill.
Top Heavys will come toward you if you attack. Otherwise, they're usually extremely slow and just stand around.
The Birdo's tongue attack is an auto knock down, as is their slide attack (telegraphed by biting quickly beforehand), making them very annoying.
The Red Mimis also get a slide attack, telegraphed by standing still.
Bellyaches and Bag Heads can two shot you. All other damage is negligible, so I never bothered to track how much damage any of the monsters do.
The Megaton Driver is around half a second slower than the Ab Jab, so it's always avoided. The only use I've found for it is in the final boss fight it can be used to avoid the Shadow Mask attack, but it's faster to just get hit.
Weapons all cause an auto knock down, making them too slow to use.
Getting knocked down wastes around 2-3 seconds. Getting killed wastes almost 8 seconds.
You have some invulnerability frames when doing an attack while grabbing an enemy and when transforming/reverting.
I've fooled around with the J-version, which is almost identical stage-wise(the exception being a few rooms in Stage 3), but has a few differences in damage output. They are as follows:
Normal Rick:
Punch U - All punches do 8 damage.
Punch J - The first three punches of the four punch combo do 8 damage, but the last does 40.
Spinkick U - 80 damage. 64 on "big" enemies.
Spinkick J - While faster, it only does 8 damage. Only really useful for crowd control and the invulnerability.
Mutant Rick:
Punch U - 3 punch combo does 8, 16, 40 in that order.
Punch J - 3 punch combo does 16, 40, 80 in that order.
Breadsticks U - 248 damage. 120 on "big" enemies.
Breadsticks J - 80 damage and it consumes POW. Only worth it when you're about to revert back to Normal Rick or if it will kill everything before your POW runs out. Otherwise, stick with punches for multiple enemies.
And here are the HP RAM addresses for the J-version:
Rick: 00FF00B2
Enemy 1: 00FF5E80
Enemy 2: 00FF5E82
Enemy 3: 00FF5E84
