Now that there's a new LoZ TAS, I think some of the improvements can be applied to the fds route, so here's the route I think would be fastest for the fds version:
I don't know why this table isn't showing up properly. Until I figure out how to fix it, you can view the table at http://wrvids.com/other%20files/lozfds-route.html .
<table>
<tr><th> FDS route:</th><th> Phil & Baxter's route:</th></tr>
<tr><td> Get wooden sword</td><td> Get wooden sword</td></tr>
<tr><td> Reset</td><td> Reset</td></tr>
<tr><td> Enter level 3</td><td> Enter level 3</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get level 3 triforce</td><td> Get level 3 triforce</td></tr>
<tr><td> Enter level 3</td><td> Enter level 3</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get raft</td><td> Get raft</td></tr>
<tr><td> Reset</td><td> Reset</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get candle</td><td> Get candle</td></tr>
<tr><td> Enter level 4</td><td> Enter level 4</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get ladder</td><td> Get ladder</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get level 4 triforce</td><td> Get level 4 triforce</td></tr>
<tr><td> Reset</td><td> Reset</td></tr>
<tr><td> Enter level 8</td><td> Enter level 8</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get level 8 triforce</td><td> Get level 8 triforce</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get meat</td><td> Get meat</td></tr>
<tr><td> Enter level 2</td><td> Enter level 2</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get magical boomerang</td><td> Get level 2 triforce</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get level 2 triforce</td><td> Enter level 5</td></tr>
<tr><td> Enter level 5</td><td> Get whistle</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get whistle</td><td> Get level 5 triforce</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get level 5 triforce</td><td> Whistle to level 3</td></tr>
<tr><td> Whistle to white sword cave</td><td> Enter level 7</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get white sword</td><td> Get level 7 triforce</td></tr>
<tr><td> Reset</td><td> Reset</td></tr>
<tr><td> Whistle to arrow shop</td><td> Enter level 1</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get arrow</td><td> Get bow</td></tr>
<tr><td> Enter level 7</td><td> Reset</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get level 7 triforce</td><td> Get level 1 triforce</td></tr>
<tr><td> Reset</td><td> Get arrow</td></tr>
<tr><td> Enter level 1</td><td> Enter level 6</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get bow</td><td> Get level 6 triforce</td></tr>
<tr><td> Reset</td><td> Whistle to level 1</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get level 1 triforce</td><td> Enter level 9</td></tr>
<tr><td> Whistle to graveyard</td><td> Get silver arrow</td></tr>
<tr><td> Enter level 6</td><td> Save Zelda</td></tr>
<tr><td> Get level 6 triforce</td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td> Whistle to level 1</td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td> Enter level 9</td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td> Get silver arrow</td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td> Save Zelda</td><td></td></tr>
</table>
If anyone isn't familiar with the glitch, you can whistle to any screen that's 1 screen left of a level, but the appearance of the screen doesn't change. Then when you walk to another screen or enter a cave you see the effect of the glitch.
I'm not sure if the white sword is worth it. I'd say there's a decent chance since you don't have to spend all that time walking to the cave. It's also possible to whistle to the magical sword cave after level 6, or you can just go there on the way to level 6 since it's not so far out of the way. If you skip the white sword, then the magical sword might be worth it since it's such a huge improvement over the wooden sword.
1 more possible route change: I still don't know whether or not you can whistle directly to level 9 after finishing the other levels. I think there was something about that in the manual, but I'm not sure if it was an FDS-only trick or if it was just a mistake. Has anyone tested this?
It's also possible to whistle to the magical sword cave after level 6, or you can just go there on the way to level 6 since it's not so far out of the way. If you skip the white sword, then the magical sword might be worth it since it's such a huge improvement over the wooden sword.
Obtaining the magical sword requires at least 12 heart containers, or is this different in the FDS version?
edit: I took a look at your proposed route in more detail. Regarding the white sword idea, I did a timing test for blowing the whistle, walking into the cave, grabbing the sword, and saving. It comes out to at least 21 seconds, which is several seconds more than the time lost killing Patra and Gannon with the wooden sword. Thus, it seems unlikely that the white sword could be worth getting. If this involves blowing the whistle more than once, it is definitely not worthwhile.
For the graveyard warp, on the USA version the whistle can only take you to dungeons that you've already beaten. Unless the glitch removes this restriction, is it even possible to warp to the graveyard (one screen left of level 6) at that point in the game?
Obtaining the magical sword requires at least 12 heart containers, or is this different in the FDS version?
I'd assume it's the same as the NES version, but I forgot about that, good point. So I think it's obvious that the magical sword isn't worth it.
edit: I took a look at your proposed route in more detail. Regarding the white sword idea, I did a timing test for blowing the whistle, walking into the cave, grabbing the sword, and saving. It comes out to at least 21 seconds, which is several seconds more than the time lost killing Patra and Gannon with the wooden sword. Thus, it seems unlikely that the white sword could be worth getting. If this involves blowing the whistle more than once, it is definitely not worthwhile.
The way the glitch works is after beating level 5, first you throw the magical boomerang, and then you use the whistle. Then the boomerang knocks you out of the whirlwind, and you walk into the fake level 5, which takes you directly into the white sword cave. Is this what you timed? I haven't timed it myself, but I don't think this would take 21 seconds.
For the graveyard warp, on the USA version the whistle can only take you to dungeons that you've already beaten. Unless the glitch removes this restriction, is it even possible to warp to the graveyard (one screen left of level 6) at that point in the game?
You can warp to 1 screen left of any level you've already completed. That's normally where the whistle takes you without using the glitch, but then the screen scrolls to the right. With this glitch, you prevent the screen from scrolling to the right. So after completing level 1 you would warp to level 7 and do the glitch. Then you're still on the fake screen, and you can't walk up, so you have to just enter the fake level 1, which takes you to the screen left of level 7. I'm not sure how much delay that causes, it might be too much. If so, you could just reset to return to the origin, then do the glitch, and from there you can walk up a screen, taking you to the screen 1 up and left from level 7.
But then you have to obtain the magical boomerang as well which takes 2 screen movements AND killing the enemies in said room.
I'm sciencing as fast as I can !
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<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
You gain much more time by being able to take the big shortcut to level 6, so it's worth it.
You might indeed be able to complete the FDS version a little faster due to the glitch... but it appears that it's only useful once or twice (I don't think it's faster getting the white sword)... and you can wonder whether it's worth to make a zelda FDS version TAS, when the difference is only 1 glitch, that can be used only once or twice.
The way the glitch works is after beating level 5, first you throw the magical boomerang, and then you use the whistle. Then the boomerang knocks you out of the whirlwind, and you walk into the fake level 5, which takes you directly into the white sword cave. Is this what you timed? I haven't timed it myself, but I don't think this would take 21 seconds.
Ahh, I see. I watched zeldabugmovie.avi just now to refresh my memory on how this glitch works. In my timing experiment, I should not have included the time it takes to walk around the lake into the cave, since the room with the Lynel would never be seen. However, I should have added in the time it takes to switch to the boomerang, throw it, wait for the long black-out screen, and switch back to the flute at the end.
At this point my impression is that the total sequence will take even more than 21 seconds, although I can't confirm this without actually playing it through on the FDS version.
I finally understand the graveyard warp though. I had thought you were trying to warp west of level 6, but it makes sense to warp west or northwest of level 7.
You gain much more time by being able to take the big shortcut to level 6, so it's worth it.
You might indeed be able to complete the FDS version a little faster due to the glitch... but it appears that it's only useful once or twice (I don't think it's faster getting the white sword)... and you can wonder whether it's worth to make a zelda FDS version TAS, when the difference is only 1 glitch, that can be used only once or twice.
Because it's a cool glitch, and people will go "wtf" when they see it.
Because it's a cool glitch, and people will go "wtf" when they see it.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with Baxter that this run no longer seems like such a great idea. If someone were to go through all the necessary work and complete this run, I would expect it to receive plenty of 'no' votes on the workbench despite the popularity of Zelda. An FDS run did seem like an interesting idea at one point in time, but that was before the submission of Phil & Baxter's run.
Warp glitches are interesting when they allow you to skip major milestones in the game, lead to entirely different routes, and/or make the run significantly shorter. That isn't the case with this glitch. The only two route changes are buying the arrow elsewhere and taking a different path to level 6.
On top of the basic limitations, there are also the issues of worse sound effects compared to the cartridge version, text written in Japanese, loading time, and long blackout screens. The extended blackout screens (which occur every time Link enters a dungeon, exits a dungeon, or uses the whistle) could even outweigh the shortcuts and make this run take longer than 24:04.
I think the most requested other type of Zelda run has been an improved second quest. Second to this, from time to time there have been calls for a good swordless run. It might be better to focus efforts on those two for the time being, unless someone finds some more revolutionary glitches or shortcuts in the FDS version.
