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Posted: 9/6/2014 1:15 AM
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PJ
He/Him
Joined: 2/1/2011
Posts: 181
Location: Western NY
I am pretty certain it has nothing to do with the number of sprites. In the Mandrill heart video, there is literally nothing on screen except one boomerang and one health drop. It really just scrolling an item on screen right when you steal a boomerang's item I think. What exactly causes it is still mostly unknown, but I'm pretty sure sprite count doesn't matter.
Posted: 9/6/2014 1:23 AM
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p4wn3r
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
Lucky TAS of 2011 Gameboy TAS of 2011
I see. Thanks for the quick answer :)
Posted: 9/6/2014 4:21 PM
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Omnigamer
Player (37)
Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282
My guess is that it is something to do with how the game handles powerups and then also a flawed flag for the boomerang. Something along the lines of after you grab the powerup that the boomerang is holding, it does checks after to see if the item still exists before deactivating the flag. Past Capcom games have used an indexable stack sort of setup for keeping track of enemies and things, so it wouldn't surprise me if they used the same thing here. So when you grab the item with the boomerang, it pops it off the stack. However, that same frame you move another object on-screen, which gets pushed on to the stack. The boomerang still has an active flag for thinking that it's holding something with a reference to that particular index (probably some other checks occur too), so now the new thing that appears is instead considered grabbed by the boomerang and has its position updated to match the boomerang. Again, I have not played around with the bug nor looked into it at all, so this is just speculation.
Posted: 9/6/2014 4:40 PM
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HHS
Active player (285)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
That's basically correct (except that it is not called a stack). If the boomerang grabs a powerup, and the powerup disappears (for example, by taking it without touching the boomerang), and another powerup is then loaded into the same index on the same frame, the boomerang will be none the wiser and will continue to hold the new powerup.
Posted: 9/6/2014 7:07 PM
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Omnigamer
Player (37)
Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282
Whatever it's called aside, the structure I'm referring to is a list where newest items appear at the lowest index and all other items are moved to higher indices. There's a number of ways that this can be done (including in the opposite direction) but for Capcom at least I've seen lowest index for newest elements as the convention.
Posted: 3/13/2015 3:43 PM
Post subject: Mega Man X Low% (I have a question).
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ZX497
Joined: 10/8/2013
Posts: 126
To put it short, could phantom grab be used to bypass the Dash Boots somehow? I have no idea how the mechanics for that glitch work, but at least there's some woodchipper dudes who fling platforms at you in that level, so, maybe it'd be somehow possible to phantom grab one of those and get by somehow without the boots? Another possible way would be somehow getting the buster upgrade without the boots, since charged Sting and Shield allow you to pass through the container freely. I dunno how you'd get the buster, but yea. The reason why this'd be very neat, in my opinion, is cause I feel a TAS without the boots would sort of feel like an extension of the classic series. Don't get me wrong, the MMX TASes look amazing, and I wouldn't wanna substitute any of them for a slower paced TAS like this, I just think this might make for a fresh new take on Mega Man X and how it's played. So uhh, if you got any info about possibly skipping Dash Boots, in any way, lemme know.
Posted: 3/13/2015 4:11 PM
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KusogeMan
Experienced player (675)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1785
Location: Brasil
why another thread..sorry for replying and givin u a hope for answers
TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 3/13/2015 4:34 PM
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ZX497
Joined: 10/8/2013
Posts: 126
I wasn't sure where to put it, so I put it here. Now that you mentioned it, it's totally my bad for not searching for a low% topic before I posted... Sorry about that. EDIT: Actually, apparently there's no low% topic (at least none that I could find), but there is a general Mega Man X topic, which would certainly have sufficed for a question. So, sorry again.
Posted: 3/13/2015 9:07 PM
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Ikkisoad
He/Him
Joined: 2/10/2015
Posts: 7
The only possible way known to finish the game w/out boots is by using a glitched password to get all bosses weapons:http://tasvideos.org/2059M.html The way phantom grab work is not that wide, the way it work is by collecting an item at the same frame another item is spawning, this new item will spawn where u grabed the old item... that's why the boomerangs make that much possibilities in the current 100% TAS *sorry englando*
Posted: 3/14/2015 6:14 AM
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Hetfield90
Skilled player (1245)
Joined: 8/29/2014
Posts: 302
GBA TAS of 2018 TASer of 2016 SNES TASer of 2016 PSX TAS of 2016 TASer of 2015 Rookie of 2015 SNES TASer of 2015
The logs are considered "enemy projectiles" and not "miscellaneous", so they can't be phantom grabbed.
Posted: 3/14/2015 6:18 AM
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KusogeMan
Experienced player (675)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1785
Location: Brasil
Hetfield90 wrote:
The logs are considered "enemy projectiles" and not "miscellaneous", so they can't be phantom grabbed.
log u mean the capsule?
TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 3/14/2015 6:23 AM
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R1_4n6
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 454
Location: New York, US
You can skip dash boots on the PC Version I believe. I don't know if anyone would TAS it though. Hopefully one day someone will decide to take on that project.
My name is Forensics.
Posted: 3/14/2015 7:21 AM
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Hetfield90
Skilled player (1245)
Joined: 8/29/2014
Posts: 302
GBA TAS of 2018 TASer of 2016 SNES TASer of 2016 PSX TAS of 2016 TASer of 2015 Rookie of 2015 SNES TASer of 2015
No, I meant the logs at the beginning of the stage that ZX497 was asking about.
Posted: 3/14/2015 12:55 PM
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ZX497
Joined: 10/8/2013
Posts: 126
Ahhh, I see. Thanks for the input everybody, much appreciated! How does the boot skip work for the PC version, 4N6? Is there a video reference of some kind?
Posted: 3/14/2015 1:09 PM
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R1_4n6
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 454
Location: New York, US
ZX497 wrote:
Ahhh, I see. Thanks for the input everybody, much appreciated! How does the boot skip work for the PC version, 4N6? Is there a video reference of some kind?
To be honest I'm not really sure all I know is it involves going on the ceiling some how. I don't have video reference of it I remember seeing a picture of it but, it was a long time ago.
My name is Forensics.
Posted: 3/17/2015 10:41 PM
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HHS
Active player (285)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
For the record, here is a full list of all the objects that can be phantom grabbed: Weapon energy Health Hoganmer's shield Extra lives Sub tanks Boss doors Falling road Road crack Anglerge's seeker Life ups Submarine loading zone Crumbling cave generator Escalators Jet lifts Falling platforms Falling blocks at RT55J Chill penguin's hook Flying platforms Circular platforms Vile door Storm eagle door
Posted: 3/18/2015 2:53 AM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
HHS wrote:
For the record, here is a full list of all the objects that can be phantom grabbed: Storm eagle door
Assuming you're talking about the normal level's door, does this activate the explosion sequence on the ship?
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Posted: 3/18/2015 6:17 AM
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HHS
Active player (285)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
No, this is activated by riding the platform.
Posted: 2/3/2016 5:28 AM
Post subject: MegaMan X Undocumented Glitch (Insta-clear Flame Mammoth)
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farondk
He/Him
Joined: 2/3/2016
Posts: 2
Ok so I was directed here as I am wanting to share something I discovered today. I did a bit of research before posting, and I can't find this documented anywhere so I figured I would submit it here for others to check out. Watching Any% speedruns out there for this, I grew even more intrigued as nobody was using this glitch. So I figured that either a) nobody knows about it, or b) its not useful. So if its already well known and I am just an idiot as it's not useful, I will happily delete this and move on :) It should be known that I am not a speedrunner obviously :) I made a crappy video of the glitch here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgn-Ktl7Oyw&feature=youtu.be At the time of the recording, this was the third repeat. I did nothing special to set this up, just picked Flame Mammoth's stage, fought through to this point, jumped on the smasher and shot it. Next thing you know I was given the stage clear screen and the weapon. I then went back inside and it repeated no problem. I haven't tested to see what other weapon combos this works with or if you play the stage later
Posted: 2/3/2016 5:37 AM
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Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
There's an emulator bug which carries this symptom in various forms. I haven't seen this particular version of it, but it looks just like the others.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 2/3/2016 5:50 AM
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farondk
He/Him
Joined: 2/3/2016
Posts: 2
Interesting. First time I have ever come across something like this. Appreciate the insight!
Posted: 2/3/2016 2:40 PM
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Amaraticando
It/Its
Editor, Player (159)
Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 673
Location: Brazil
TAS of 2015 SNES TAS of 2015
farondk: Can you reproduce this on Higan, lsnes or BizHawk?
Posted: 2/3/2016 4:16 PM
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Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2108)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2821
Location: Northern California
Homebrew TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TAS of 2020 Sega TAS of 2016
Amaraticando wrote:
farondk: Can you reproduce this on Higan, lsnes or BizHawk?
From what I remember, it's always just been a bug regarding inaccurate emulation. He was playing on ZSNES, and I remember running into the same bug myself years and years ago while playing on ZSNES. It could possibly be related to this: http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9809 So yeah, it can't be reproduced on console or more accurate emulators like Higan.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Posted: 2/4/2016 12:40 PM
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pld
Joined: 9/3/2015
Posts: 8
There are a lot of anti-piracy measures triggered when an emulator like ZSNES is being used. Here are some of them: https://tcrf.net/Mega_Man_X#Copy_Protection
Posted: 3/8/2016 2:22 AM
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Hetfield90
Skilled player (1245)
Joined: 8/29/2014
Posts: 302
GBA TAS of 2018 TASer of 2016 SNES TASer of 2016 PSX TAS of 2016 TASer of 2015 Rookie of 2015 SNES TASer of 2015
http://www.twitch.tv/huurtheduur/v/52279424 New glitch that appears to freeze X's Y-axis speed while inside the ride armor. I don't know how to reproduce it(and apparently neither do the people in the video), but in the grand scenario it could perhaps be activated while moving upward to get the mech up on top of the roof to punch the igloo holding the heart tank and eliminate the Penguin revisit in 100%.
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