Topic by hero_of_the_day

Posted: 10/24/2007 4:08 AM

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hero_of_the_day

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Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States

Was the levitation trick I discovered a few years ago no use to you? Was it actually slower to use that trick to cross the water? This is kinda surprising to me. Anywho the run looks great so far. I am happy to see you working on this game now. I love the improvements you made to the X games, now this game will see the same upgrade :)

They're off to find the hero of the day...

Posted: 10/25/2007 3:08 PM

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HHS

Active player (282)

Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356

Although Forte has a slow dash startup, he goes 3.5 pixels per second on the ground, but only 3 pixels per second in the air.

That doesn't exactly sound like dashing to me :D Maybe if he were a very tiny ant.

Posted: 10/25/2007 6:02 PM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

hero of the day wrote:

Was the levitation trick I discovered a few years ago no use to you? Was it actually slower to use that trick to cross the water? This is kinda surprising to me.

I tested it out and Forte gains very little separation from the boat itself. What I missed though was that Forte can jump from a levitation position. However, I tested it and it only saves 8 frames. I left it out since I had made some progress into Cold Man's stage at that time. So far, I have defeated the snowman miniboss and picked up over 100 worth of bolts and an extra life (not the obvious one sticking out). I'm also ahead some amount.

HHS wrote:

That doesn't exactly sound like dashing to me :D Maybe if he were a very tiny ant.

I had too much on mind when I wrote that post.

Posted: 10/29/2007 2:41 AM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

Coldman done. 25 frames saved in this level, 148 in total: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1470886882/RnF%20FractalFusion%20coldman%20done.smv 140 worth of bolts collected. Need 200 before the fourth stage. hero, the levitation trick is used in parrot14green's glitches. So it's not useless.

Posted: 10/29/2007 3:34 PM

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AngerFist

Active player (432)

Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Solid play, nice job. Too bad it takes so long to kill Cold Man but you did your best to be entertaining. Have you begun planning where to use those crazy glitches parrot14green?

Nitrogenesis wrote:

Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!

Arc wrote:

I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.

natt wrote:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it

Cooljay wrote:

Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

Posted: 10/30/2007 6:46 AM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

AngerFist wrote:

Solid play, nice job. Too bad it takes so long to kill Cold Man but you did your best to be entertaining. Have you begun planning where to use those crazy glitches parrot14green?

Some of the glitches used by parrot14green involve zipping with Lightning Bolt. Seeing that I don't have that weapon, I cannot do that. However, unlike what the glitch movies indicate, the proper height setup for the levitation trick (in order to glitch into the wall) can be done just as easily (assuming enough room) with Ice Wall, and is even faster than using L. Bolt. Although I cannot zip upwards, I can glitch upwards at 32 pixels per 7 ~~seconds~~ frames (about 4.5 pixels per ~~second~~ frame, close to initial jumping speed) by pressing A _ _ A _ _ _ over and over. I am using this trick in Burner Man's stage (only once, though). The trick saves about 1 second. I am almost done Burner Man's stage. Zipping horizontally is possible, but I haven't found a good opportunity yet. It may be possible in Pirate Man's stage, since Ice Walls float in water. Not all of parrot14green's glitch locations are feasible. Some of them depend on L. Bolt, and some of them take too long to be worth doing.

Posted: 10/30/2007 9:27 AM

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AngerFist

Active player (432)

Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

FractalFusion wrote:

Some of the glitches used by parrot14green involve zipping with Lightning Bolt. Seeing that I don't have that weapon, I cannot do that.

Right. Is it because you have to buy the weapon? If so, would doing so take too much time? But nevertheless, at least you can zip with your other weapon.

Nitrogenesis wrote:

Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!

Arc wrote:

I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.

natt wrote:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it

Cooljay wrote:

Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

Posted: 10/30/2007 6:06 PM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

L. Bolt is a Robot Master weapon, obtained from Dynamo Man (after beating Astro Man). I decided not to start with Astro Man. No decision is easy. The L. Bolt weapon allows zipping up, down, left, and right (not as easy as it sounds). Without it, I can only zip horizontally or glitch upwards as described in the previous post. I just hope the use of Ice Wall in Astro and Dynamo levels pays off. Some sections of Astro level can be done quickly with Ice Wall, and there is a through-the-wall glitch in Dynamo level.

Posted: 10/30/2007 6:53 PM

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Tristal

Joined: 7/10/2007
Posts: 280

I really wondered if the old route was any good, it sure seems like Astro Man takes forever to kill even with Magic Man's weapon.

Posted: 10/31/2007 7:17 AM

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Cremator

Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 63

So, FractalFusion, you're saying that by taking the Cold Man route Dynamo Man would be the very last Robot Master you'd face from all eight? Or are you just going to get the super Forte Buster (cannot be bought yet?) and break the cycle? That might work, too. [Edit: Of course the Counter you are buying should do the job just as well, as you've seem to be planning] Are you going to get the H. Speed Dash?

Posted: 10/31/2007 7:40 PM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

I am planning to do the bosses in order, so Dynamo Man is last. Breaking the weakness cycle means that I probably will require (with Counter) 10 hits on Astro Man instead of 7 or 8 (Magic Card+Counter), plus no Tengu Blade for Astro and Dynamo levels. It comes down to whether I can save more than 4 seconds using L. Bolt in Ground, Tengu, and Magic stages. I definitely didn't plan for H. Speed Dash, though. This will be problematic.

Posted: 10/31/2007 10:30 PM
(Edited: 11/1/2007 3:20 PM)

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Cremator

Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 63

Well, H. Speed Dash is only 100 bolts and I'm pretty sure it's almost as fast as the Tengu Blade, although it works differently. It's probably possible to collect all bolts in one stage, so it'd be usable in Dynamo and Ground Man before one can get ones hands on Tengu Blade. The way I see it, it works like this: Start (slow): duration * Acceleration (regular): duration ** Peak (fast): duration **/* Stop (regular/slow): * ...but this is perceived by eye so I can't tell for certain if this is correct for sure. The overall speed might also be faster vs. normal dash. Of course, HSD would require long, intact dashes which would be quite hard on, say, Dynamo Man's stage. Also, being inexperienced at TASing, how (I forgot the finish this sentence, gah. Anyway...) much one can make way to perform these dashes, without losing time. Wouldn't pulling off parrot14green's tricks in Ground Man give quite the advantage?

FractalFusion wrote:

However, unlike what the glitch movies indicate, the proper height setup for the levitation trick (in order to glitch into the wall) can be done just as easily (assuming enough room) with Ice Wall, and is even faster than using L. Bolt. Although I cannot zip upwards, I can glitch upwards at 32 pixels per 7 ~~seconds~~ frames (about 4.5 pixels per ~~second~~ frame, close to initial jumping speed) by pressing A _ _ A _ _ _ over and over. I am using this trick in Burner Man's stage (only once, though). The trick saves about 1 second. I am almost done Burner Man's stage.

Could you clarify again, which one you cannot do with Ice Wall, up or down? I'm guessing down, but I cannot draw conclusions from this.

Posted: 11/1/2007 1:21 AM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

Cremator wrote:

H. Speed Dash ... The way I see it, it works like this: Start (slow): duration * Acceleration (regular): duration ** Peak (fast): duration **/* Stop (regular/slow): *

That's correct. HSD reaches Tengu Blade speed, but only after about 15 frames of dashing.

Cremator wrote:

Could you clarify again, which one you cannot do with Ice Wall, up or down? I'm guessing down, but I cannot draw conclusions from this.

You can't go down without L. Bolt. You can go up, but not as fast as with L. Bolt. The Ice Wall doesn't cause zipping. It can only be used to enter a corner. Now that I think of it, I will try Astro Man fourth. The glitches do save time. Edit:

Cremator wrote:

Also, being inexperienced at TASing, how much one can make way to perform these dashes, without losing time.

Without HSD, you really can't make way for anything. I don't know with HSD; you probably can make way somewhat. A full dash without HSD saves at most 2 frames. So my earlier statement about staying on the ground as much as possible is inaccurate. If there is anything better, like pre-accelerating into a downward fall, by all means do it. With HSD, it should save 6-8 frames. Tengu Blade is not much better. Currently, I am trying to obtain bolts in Pirate Man's stage without wasting time. I need 310 (200 for Counter (Attack), 100 for H. Speed Dash, and 10 for Shock Guard).

Posted: 11/2/2007 11:23 PM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

Pirate Man done. The run is about 13.5 seconds faster than published: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1098950325/RnF%20FractalFusion%20pirateman%20done.smv In order for Counter to work, I need to take enough damage in Astro Man's stage. There aren't many good places to do this. I remember someone asking, but it is possible to manipulate Astro Man to prevent the invincibility actions.

Posted: 11/2/2007 11:33 PM

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AngerFist

Active player (432)

Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

That was amazing work Fractalfusion. So refreshing and nice to see zipping being done in this game.

Nitrogenesis wrote:

Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!

Arc wrote:

I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.

natt wrote:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it

Cooljay wrote:

Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

Posted: 11/2/2007 11:52 PM

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OgreSlayeR

Former player

Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 524
Location: USA

Great job so far. I imagine this will be a Star run when it's finished. I'm surprised it's only 13 seconds faster so far, with those cool glitches and all. Anyway, keep it up! Edit: I wonder if G.Boost is worth buying. It might help set up some horizontal zipping at the top of some ceilings that you may not be able to reach normally. It also might save time in some regular situations. The faster ladder climb item might not be worth it though. Most of the time you will be constantly jumping up ladders which is probably faster anyway. I guess it might save time on small ladders where jumping up is slower, but I doubt it would make up for the time spent buying it/collecting bolts.

Working on: Command and Conquer PSX Nod Campaign

Posted: 11/3/2007 9:42 PM

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parrot14gree

Active player (251)

Joined: 3/12/2006
Posts: 155
Location: Taiwan

L.Bolt is not the only solution to control up,down or horizontal for Forte. The new choice for Forte give him a huge power to zip down. The weakness cycle will be come true by the new trick. It's a demo http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1542759394/Rockman%20%26%20Forte%20%28J%29-Zip%20Gboost.smv

Posted: 11/3/2007 10:22 PM
(Edited: 11/4/2007 8:08 AM)

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

OgreSlayeR wrote:

Edit: I wonder if G.Boost is worth buying. It might help set up some horizontal zipping at the top of some ceilings that you may not be able to reach normally.

parrot14gree wrote:

L.Bolt is not the only solution to control up,down or horizontal for Forte. The new choice for Forte give him a huge power to zip down. The weakness cycle will be come true by the new trick. It's a demo http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1542759394/Rockman%20%26%20Forte%20%28J%29-Zip%20Gboost.smv

Good find. I actually found the second glitch (skip the second note-playing room) about the same time you did. [edit] By that, I mean about the same time that you posted it. [/edit] I believe that using G. Boost wastes too much time. Besides, getting 510 bolts (or even 400) in the first few levels is something that is beyond convenience.

parrot14gree wrote:

The weakness cycle will be come true by the new trick.

Sorry, I don't understand.

Posted: 11/3/2007 10:41 PM

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parrot14gree

Active player (251)

Joined: 3/12/2006
Posts: 155
Location: Taiwan

parrot14gree wrote: The weakness cycle will be come true by the new trick. Sorry, I don't understand. ha......my English is poor. It mean the route[Ice->Burner->Pirate->Ground->Tengu->Magic->Astro->Dynamo ],than you still need 310 bolts(200 for G.Boost , 100 for H. Speed Dash, and 10 for Shock Guard).

Posted: 11/3/2007 10:54 PM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

parrot14gree wrote:

It mean the route[Ice->Burner->Pirate->Ground->Tengu->Magic->Astro->Dynamo ],than you still need 310 bolts(200 for G.Boost , 100 for H. Speed Dash, and 10 for Shock Guard).

I also need 200 more for Counter Attack. It does 2 more damage every hit when Forte is low on health (7 or less).

Posted: 11/3/2007 11:19 PM

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parrot14gree

Active player (251)

Joined: 3/12/2006
Posts: 155
Location: Taiwan

But,in my route which bosses do you need to use it(Counter Attack)?Or,you will use it in other places?

Posted: 11/3/2007 11:41 PM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

I need it for bosses no matter what. For example, Dynamo Man normally takes 14 hits to kill, but with Counter, it only takes 7. Time saved: (14 - 7) x 1.5 seconds = 10.5 seconds. This is just Dynamo Man, once. Counter doesn't always save 10.5s against bosses, but I can imagine saving over a minute with it.

Posted: 11/6/2007 7:28 PM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

This run is now on hold. I found some more glitches in Burner Man's stage: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1467863507/Rockman%20%26%20Forte%20%28J%29%20glitch1.smv It seems that Ice Wall is so useful that it pushes the character into the ceiling even without water or leading overhang. Basically, the only requirement is that the ceiling forms an upper-right corner, and that there is enough room to use Ice Wall. When I work on the run again, I will redo everything from Burner Man's stage. By the way, if there isn't already enough evidence to do Cold Man first: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1468781996/Rockman%20%26%20Forte%20%28J%29%20glitch2.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1458776430/Rockman%20%26%20Forte%20%28J%29%20glitch3.smv I found the first one by accident while trying to glitch out of the room via the upper-right corner.

Posted: 11/6/2007 8:15 PM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

Oh my, those are real cool. This game is starting to become incredibly similar to Megaman 1 in how decked out the glitching/skipping becomes. Looking forward to this, which I don't usually say often with Megaman runs in the making.

☣ Homepage ☣ Retired

Posted: 11/6/2007 9:58 PM

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OgreSlayeR

Former player

Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 524
Location: USA

Cool stuff indeed. It's probably a good idea to keep it on hold for a bit as it seems this game probably isn't near being 100% broken. It would suck if you were near finished with your TAS and you found another game breaking glitch.

Working on: Command and Conquer PSX Nod Campaign