Post by CoolKirby

Posted: 2/13/2015 8:36 AM

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CoolKirby

Editor, Experienced player (570)

Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4036

Great to see you're still working on this project. Gotta save those frames!

Posted: 2/20/2015 11:10 PM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1536)

Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319

These 8 frames can't be saved, a RNG cycle would be needed in the end of the 3rd room of 4-2 which ended up wasting more than 8 frames. Here's another WIP up to 4-4, with overall 64 frames of improvement.

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Posted: 2/21/2015 5:21 AM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg

TASeditor wrote:

Here's another WIP up to 4-4, with overall 64 frames of improvement.

And the difference from the published run?

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 2/21/2015 1:57 PM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1536)

Joined: 7/9/2010
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517 frames in world 4. 3408 frames totally.

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Posted: 2/21/2015 7:18 PM

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True

Editor, Player (69)

Joined: 1/18/2008
Posts: 663

I am curious if anyone will improve emulation, or has ideas for tests I can run using modified game code to determine where emulation issues are, so this could eventually sync on console. (Would likely mean the run would need to be redone, but...) The problem: inputs in Kirby are polled every frame, regardless of it is a display lagframe or not. There is no method to sync input to match what is happening on screen. For other games, polled input is usually good enough to get a game to sync. Some other games also aren't accurately emulated and don't have the same amount of frames as on emulator, but they still sync because input is polled, handled, and important actions occur on input state or on non-lagged loop iterations rather than time. (The most common example I can think of is N64 Super Mario 64, though other games are like this on NES.) Because Kirby always polls for input, and the emulation isn't accurate enough, I have nothing to sync on. It could be a timing issue, or a loop waiting for hardware state to change, or something else. If someone can work on the emulator, and someone can hypothesize about the problems and modify the code to provide feedback, I do have a donor cart so I can burn custom test ROMs and test on console. Worst case, the problem is the DPCM glitch in which case unless we emulate with a specific sync state and emulate this glitch we won't sync this game. Fixing this would do two things: improve emulation quality, potentially for all games, and get a kickass run to run on actual console :)

true on twitch - lsnes windows builds 20230425 - the date this site is buried

Posted: 3/3/2015 12:37 PM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1536)

Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319

World 4 is done, here's the WIP. Saved 4359 frames (1:12.65 minutes) over the published movie.

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Posted: 3/6/2015 8:13 PM

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CoolKirby

Editor, Experienced player (570)

Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4036

Man, that water room in 4-5 looked really smooth and optimized. It looks like you reduced a lot of lag in the room after it too. 4-6 was amazing! I watched it over and over and it doesn't get any less surprising.

Posted: 3/6/2015 10:56 PM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1536)

Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319

The last room of 4-5 hasn't really reduced lag, only a few. It already lags so much that other strategies, cliff dashing or running normally throught it don't reduce enough lag to save any time. The fireball creates a lot of lag, but the position gain is still bigger.

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Posted: 7/19/2015 9:17 AM

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TASeditor

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It's still not dead! User movie #24234407968518158.

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Posted: 7/19/2015 1:13 PM

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illayaya

Skilled player (1108)

Joined: 4/11/2008
Posts: 159
Location: Anime land

I'm glad kirby isn't dead yet. I watched just 5-1 and I was wondering why you kept holding UFO. Because UFO can't go to down fast and you have to get rid of this ability at the beginning of 5-2. So I'm guessing ball or stone will be faster. Tornado might be good in 5-2 too.

http://www.twitch.tv/0xwas_

Posted: 7/19/2015 1:30 PM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1536)

Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319

In 5-1 stone was slower, but it was not really optimized. Haven't tested other power-ups yet. Edit: Nope, it's definitely slower.

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Posted: 7/24/2015 11:07 AM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1536)

Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319

Here's a WIP up to 5-3: User movie #24347128668590440 Saved 4690 frames so far. Using Wheel in 5-3 is slower.

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Posted: 7/25/2015 8:28 PM

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CoolKirby

Editor, Experienced player (570)

Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4036

Great work! 5-2 in particular looked really smooth.

Posted: 8/15/2015 6:50 PM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1536)

Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319

Here's another WIP up to 5-3. Saved 181 frames over my last WIP. Several frames where saved, starting in the room before I get UFO in 5-2. But most of it comes from the large slope room in 5-3. The slopes have weird behaviour there, not touching them saved a lot.

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Posted: 8/21/2015 8:01 PM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1536)

Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319

New WIP up to 5-5. Overall 5200 frames saved. A better route througth the second room of 5-5 saved 133 frames. Slope clipping in 5-5 is slower.

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Posted: 8/22/2015 10:18 AM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2330)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany

Improvements: 2-3 Metaknight http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1121243949/2-3%20metaknight.fm2 (12 frames faster, not optimized) entering 2-4 http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1364854842/entering%202-4.fm2 (9 frames faster) 3-1 Wallclip is possible. I don't know if it's fast enough. http://i.imgur.com/63l8NdR.png (Note: I have edited laser position to make this work but it should be doable without cheat) I also don't know if this "get hit while hitting" clip works only on right walls or also on left walls. The original twitch vod when the trick was discovered doesn't work anymore and I have only ever done this on right walls in my 1:54 TAS. 4-4 http://imgur.com/Pn2jPK0 In this room, I can stand in the spot where the clip is done about 10 frames faster by inhaling in the air. I don't know how to do the clip so I can't make a movie to tell if it really is faster. http://i.imgur.com/0IwKOTM.png At this spot, instead of falling down and spitting on the swordman, spit it away immediately and inhale the swordman. This saves 3 frames at least. http://i.imgur.com/r9KgU5L.png At this spot, you can slide and save about 7 frames. 5-2 http://i.imgur.com/t2ZmfAV.png wallclip might be possible here and save a gazillion frames. I can't get it to work though. The swordman stands too far away when slashing. http://i.imgur.com/QCtR0AP.png This spot looks promising. I can't get it to work right now, but we should investigate this. It could be a seconds timesaver. 5-5 http://i.imgur.com/pICnCWr.gif This wallclip saves a few seconds.

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Posted: 8/23/2015 11:35 PM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2330)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany

3-1 Wallclip (...)

This is way too slow after I tested it further.

5-2 wallclip (...) but swordsman stands too far from the wall

I tested every pixel position for the slash attack of the swordsman and it never seems to hit. So this is not possible.

http://i.imgur.com/QCtR0AP.png This spot looks promising (...)

Have gotten it to work:

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1281274429/kirbys%20adventure%205-2%20clip.fm2 Not confirmed if saves time or not. I think you should mix for UFO while in the wall. Btw, have not tested if it works on the other ledge because I still don't know if that clip works on left walls or not.

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Posted: 8/24/2015 9:58 AM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2330)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany

I found this clip in 5-2 which is better than the one I found yesterday. But there is no nearby opportunity to get UFO.

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Posted: 8/24/2015 12:39 PM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1536)

Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319

There are many more places in earlier worlds where some frames could be saved. I wont bother improving these right now, because it would take another 2 years to do it again. Maybe a 2nd version of the run will be made with new timesavers, including delayed exits, a trick I only used once in this run so far. It would be way to tedious to redo every room with different entrance frames and test every possible pixel/halfpixel/movement interupt while efficiently killing enemies until it's perfect, also general lag reduction in this run is not perfect. 5-2: The best way to clip would be in the second room, the next exit will lead to the room where ufo is gotten. 5-5: I knew about this clip before, but didn't know it was possible to do with ufo, it's 335 frames faster.

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Posted: 8/31/2015 10:50 AM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1536)

Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319

Thanks to mugg for finding the clip, he gave me a fm2 of doing it, which I then managed to improve by 49 frames. Here's a WIP up to 5-3 which saved 827 frames.

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Posted: 9/2/2015 5:56 AM

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CoolKirby

Editor, Experienced player (570)

Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4036

Awesome work, guys! Swallowing Blade Knight (the sword guy) underwater was surprising, and the new wallclip looks smooth. Make sure you don't forget to collide with an enemy at the end of 5-3 so you keep the UFO ability. It looks like Kirby loses it when he returns to the main map. Also, I noticed that the UFO is the wrong color when you get it back in 5-3 (it's orange instead of pink). Is that because of the color palette of the current room, or something else?

Posted: 9/2/2015 3:53 PM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1536)

Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319

Yeah, I always forget about UFO glitch, good thing my inputs on the overworld wont sync so I easily recognize I forgot something. The UFO normally is orange (normal palette), it's pink (power-up palette) after doing UFO glitch.

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Posted: 9/9/2015 12:37 AM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2330)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany

Some big guy on Youtube made a glitched run and got 80k views with it. (which is probably more than all other TASes and speedruns that ever used that glitch combined, which is funny)

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Posted: 11/25/2015 7:56 PM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1536)

Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319

Here's a WIP of World 5. Totally 1:47.98 minutes (6479 frames) faster. And just 740130 rerecords. I should really focus more on this...

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Kirby's Adventure Game: Kirby's Adventure