Topic by qFox

Posted: 12/5/2005 10:45 AM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

On flat levels (i've tested the section after the wheel miniboss in 2.2) wheel is clearly faster than tornado. I'm talking 150 frames or so. So for levels that are designed for wheel, it might be profitable to switch (as it usually doesnt take 2 mixes, but one and one normal power absorb) to wheel temporary.

qfox.nl

Posted: 12/5/2005 10:55 AM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

Um, lol. Check this out... (xvid) This is in 2.4. Easily replicated, just walk (no dash) forward like I do there. It falls, gets the immunity thing, and bounces off the beam :)

qfox.nl

Posted: 12/5/2005 6:37 PM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

Ok. Virtually matched Baxter's 1.1, missed it by 4 frames :p Got the 594 frames perfect start anyways (first frame kirby appears in 1.1). By the way, if we _are_ going to be so frame-precise (and we should) we're in for a heckuva ride... give or take 50 minutes, 60fps... shall we set our deadline at new years day 2008? ;)

qfox.nl

Posted: 12/5/2005 6:41 PM

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Baxter

Skilled player (1402)

Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821

Yes, it's a big project, to do it right... but far bigger projects are being worked on, and have been completed I think.

http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html

Posted: 12/5/2005 9:02 PM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

In that case, I beat your 1.1 by 1 frame so far :p

qfox.nl

Posted: 12/5/2005 9:07 PM

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Baxter

Skilled player (1402)

Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821

Very nice... keep it up, and make sure you won't lose accuracy when getting further in the game. What strategy do you plan on using for the first world? Have you tested different things?

http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html

Posted: 12/5/2005 9:45 PM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

No. My current goal is to beat your 1.1. It's good practice. The new data (power of the hammer, tornado not useless) is something I have to take into account. I'm leaning towards your approach, the hammer, because I think it will win me a lot of time at the bosses. But I'm not yet certain about this, since it can win me a few frames to switch somewhere... Btw, I've gone up 2 frames now, I'm gaining better control over fceu :) But you are correct. Right now I'm just aiming to beat your record. It's like sports in real life, you'll do much much better if you have an opponent that is somewhat better then you (but who doesn't beat you easily). You've set the bar high, but how much further should I look beyond that bar? I've gone thru quite some testing to get just the two frames (still am trying). I'm afraid to have the same blinds on as when I started (focussing on just the wheel).

qfox.nl

Posted: 12/5/2005 9:52 PM

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Baxter

Skilled player (1402)

Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821

Hmz... when I saw your wip, I had some serious doubts to be perfectly honest... but you are taking them away pretty much -> I like your approach, it's the same as what I think I would have done in your position ;)

http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html

Posted: 12/5/2005 10:54 PM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

Alright, 4 frames! Check it out, I've tried pretty much everything to go faster, shorter jumps, longer jumps, but I think 4 frames is as much as I can get... my 'wip' (for Kirby's Adventure (U) (PRG0) [!].nes) frames counted from first frame kirby appears, to first complete black screen frame. Note that I could never have gotten this version in Famtasia. FCEU changes the whole thing for me :)

qfox.nl

Posted: 12/5/2005 11:01 PM

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Baxter

Skilled player (1402)

Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821

Your link gives me Nitsuja's movie, if I'm not mistaken.

http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html

Posted: 12/5/2005 11:34 PM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

omg... and I don't think the savestates can ... hold on.

qfox.nl

Posted: 12/5/2005 11:44 PM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

Fixed! Current version is correct. Mine. 4 frames faster :p My 10th saveslot was near the end of the movie (it actually took me 20 attempts to actually finish -4, timing of pressing up at the door is so crucial!) -edit- (oh, of course it's just 1.1.1 :/ )

qfox.nl

Posted: 12/6/2005 12:02 AM

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Baxter

Skilled player (1402)

Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821

Great job! Your movie is exactly as fast as this movie I made a long time ago: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/436/Baxter%20-%20%20KIRBYADV.fcm (I did make this after the wip you already had... but I never went further than 1:1:1 with this)

http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html

Posted: 12/6/2005 12:10 AM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

Excellent! You know what... If you do not dash at the top (at the end), you will actually win a frame I think. It mattered in my wip.

qfox.nl

Posted: 12/6/2005 1:03 AM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

Exactly under what circumstances does a jump not loose speed (from a slide)? Do you have to press jump before your last jump flattens you? 1 frame before, 2 frames before, in the frame you're flat, 1 frame afterwards? Does it even matter? In what way? Did anyone bother to check? :)

qfox.nl

Posted: 12/6/2005 2:14 AM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

1.1.2 included (1.1.2 is 13 frames faster, making it 17 frames total)

qfox.nl

Posted: 12/6/2005 8:54 PM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

Ok... bottomline, in 1.1.3, I can't for the life of me get the randomizer ordered up so that the fireball enemy will NOT use his skill once he enters the screen. This little hickup takes about 40 frames extra (compared to Baxter), give or take. I've tried most alternatives, including loosing a couple of frames or just not sliding of the first edge but it's all slower. I can get the fire-enemy to use his ability silent (he spits fire, but the fire graphics aren't drawn, I'm sure you know the bug), but I achieve this by flipping the way I look 6x (left right...) after the slide, but this slows me down so much that by the time I reach the water, I loose 60 frames. So um, two questions; on my run, can anyone manage to hit the ground on frame 1835 (this is as fast as Baxter did it, and is in fact the fastest way and only way to get flat on the ground after the dash in frame 1835). The other question involves the bug and some back-end knowledge... We all know fire and spark type skills take up additional frames when used. Does this apply to when the above bug occurs as well? When the sprites aren't drawn, do you still loose the frames? If not, how can you trigger the bug? Or is it too 'random'...

qfox.nl

Posted: 12/7/2005 12:47 AM

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OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623

Enemy actions and locations may be based on what frame you enter the room, try finding another frame saver in the previous room, if you can't find one try wasting a single frame.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 5/10/2006 7:41 PM

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JXQ

Experienced player (750)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

Alrighty, here's what I've found out about this game. 01ED is a pretty reliable lag flag. 05BB (2-byte) is Kirby's unsigned horizontal speed. Running - 460 Sliding/preserving - 677 Downhill running - 608 or 704, depending on slope Hi-Jump preserving - 512 If Kirby is running on flat ground and above the speed of 460, his speed will decrease at the rate of 14 per frame. This is why jumping can keep the speed up, however, not perfectly, as one frame of landing will reduce the speed by 14. Thus, it is important to re-slide or re-downhill at the opportunity. Also, Fireball, Wheel, and Tornado all have a maximum speed of 1024. Tornado just wins in almost all cases because of its vertical ability. Tornado is also quite effective against bosses, just not as much as the hammer, but certainly more than Wheel or Fireball. Most of the time, I estimate that switching to hammer will cost more time than it will save. There are a couple spots where Hi-Jump or Wheel might save time, but I'm skeptical. What does this mean? Boring Tornado spamming most likely. An alternative would be a run that uses Hammer more to show off Kirby's regular moves, but the only meaningful goal I can come up with to make that clear is "uses no powers that assist Kirby in horizontal movement (except Hi-Jump)", and that's about as arbitrary as "Exposes all flying secret houses". Not to mention this game has more lag than Super Demo World. Seriously. I'm not very interested in this. Sorry everyone, but I don't see myself continuing.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 5/10/2006 8:44 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

How about improving the Super Metroid 100% movie instead?

Posted: 5/10/2006 8:52 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Or getting somebody else to improve Kirby's Adventure? I really really want to see it done!

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 5/10/2006 10:08 PM
(Edited: 5/11/2006 12:23 PM)

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (968)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

>How about improving the Super Metroid 100% movie instead? I think it's good enough for not needing improvement (especially since not working on SM100% means JXQ would work on a new project, potentially increasing the sum of total awesomeness in the universe). I don't know which game that would be, though. EDIT: clarification

Posted: 5/11/2006 8:48 AM

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Brushy

Former player

Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587

Well, if JXQ isn't running this I'll add it to my future projects list again.

Posted: 5/22/2006 5:38 PM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212

I just hope the next Kirby's Adventure movie won't end up desyncing like the last one. :3

Posted: 5/22/2006 5:53 PM

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Baxter

Skilled player (1402)

Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821

Which last one desynced? If you are talking about Bisqwit's movie... you need the Europe version of the ROM, and play the movie file with Famtasia, but I would suggest getting the avi instead.

http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html