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Posted: 6/17/2018 2:12 AM
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arkiandruski
Reviewer, Active player (287)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
Sega TASer of 2018
Alright, I'm currently going over an idea I had for Fort Redstar 3. I'll look at this boss run after I get done with that. EDIT: Never mind, it didn't pan out. i thought that since we were clipping through the left side of the platforms anyways, grabbing the other health upgrade that we were skipping might be faster, but if you just run through, the enemy for the down screw refuses to jump in time.
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Posted: 6/17/2018 4:17 AM
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Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (941)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Gameboy TAS of 2021
Thought I was on to something in Disco Fever, I was running here and pressed jump and the game pushes me into the floor for one frame, but sadly you can't do anything with it :/ These level designs are terrible lol. I really wish the horns didn't always shoot you directly into a wall, killing all your momentum. These levels would be so much cooler if you could maintain that momentum somehow. Probably totally irrelevant, but I found a softlock by doing a downwards drill, somehow into this gap.
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 6/17/2018 4:41 AM
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arkiandruski
Reviewer, Active player (287)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
Sega TASer of 2018
The fact that you got into that gap might be relevant. Not sure what time zone you're in, but if you stick around a little longer, you might be able to provide some insight to get the Fort Redstar boss done one hit earlier.
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Posted: 6/17/2018 5:05 AM
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arkiandruski
Reviewer, Active player (287)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
Sega TASer of 2018
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47856445358709179 Double posting to make sure this is seen. Like I said in the notes, I think it might be a bit sloppy, still, but this is the idea.
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Posted: 6/17/2018 5:20 AM
(Edited: 6/17/2018 5:25 AM)
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Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (941)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Gameboy TAS of 2021
That looks better, I'll take a closer look at it but I don't think I'll be able to improve much. Okay, here's how I can guess to explain this... My thinking is that the layer of water normally damages aero before his hitbox can reach the boss. I'm guessing the boss is always spawned in the bottom right and bottom left corners of the screen but the developers never thought you'd be able to reach it because of the water. But by taking damage, you can now bypass the water plane and reach the boss. It would take someone with some RAM searching experience to prove this theory, but it's what makes sense in my head. By the way, you can murder yourself after the boss is dead. And I tested doing that downwards drill clip on the cymbals, no dice. Doesn't seem like they're constructed quite the same as that instance with the tuba (or french horn or whatever it is).
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 6/17/2018 5:25 AM
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arkiandruski
Reviewer, Active player (287)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
Sega TASer of 2018
Alright, I'm currently trying to collect the fire powerup in Dr Dis Industries without taking the long road. Right now it appears to be just out of reach. If you can help me gain just a little more height, or push Aero a bit more to the left, so that he just barely clips into the powerup, that'd be great. I'll keep trying on this side. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47856774724568461 EDIT: And after I posted this, I went through and got the powerup the developer intended way just to see if it was worth it. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47857104999592493 That's all from me today. I'll get back at this tomorrow.
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Posted: 6/17/2018 6:12 AM
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Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (941)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Gameboy TAS of 2021
Doesn't seem to be reachable. The only thing that comes to mind is getting a double drill, if it exists somewhere that's faster to get to than doing that roundabout method of getting the flame powerup. I'll look around the level and see if I see one. Also, rest in peace miniboss. I actually wasn't expecting it to work! Edit: There's a double drill but it's way after the point you would receive the flame powerup. Seems like it won't be useful here.. Edit again: It seems like we're literally 2 pixels of height away from being able to make that drill up to the flame powerup. I poked the yposition height to 75 (we're only able to get to 77 at the moment) and it just barely made the jump. So if only there was a way to gain 2 pixels when jumping off that platform... It is possible to get one frame landing from inside a wall if we do a downwards drill really close to it. Not sure if you can get it by jumping from beneath. In the spot with the fire powerup you can't jump high enough to reach the wall. Here's a picture of the downwards drill landing: Then I poked our yposition while jumping as close to the wall as possible, and yes you can clip the side of the wall. But our jump is not nearly high enough to reach that point.
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 6/17/2018 3:09 PM
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arkiandruski
Reviewer, Active player (287)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
Sega TASer of 2018
Wait, that second picture looks reachable, and if you can jump off the wall afterward, that should be enough height to reach the powerup. Why do you say it's not?
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Posted: 6/17/2018 3:12 PM
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Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (941)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Gameboy TAS of 2021
It's because getting this close to the wall requires us to not press any direction. If we do, it immediately ejects you out of the wall. Since our regular jump isn't high enough (our feet don't hit above the bottom tiles of the wall) we cant clip into the wall. If we try drilling after our jump, it also ejects us out of the wall and we can't jump from inside. I did find out that we can use enemies to damage boost high enough to do this, but there is not one around in this spot. That's the only way I know it would work.
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 6/17/2018 3:25 PM
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arkiandruski
Reviewer, Active player (287)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
Sega TASer of 2018
Can I have a moviefile of that first clip? Also, are you on Discord? I sent a friend invite.
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Posted: 6/17/2018 3:30 PM
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Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (941)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Gameboy TAS of 2021
Accepted and sent a file that does the wall clip in PM.
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 6/17/2018 10:33 PM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 379
Location: Russia
Script updated again: https://pastebin.com/mgLLaCnV I thought assembly has bug, but nope... today I checked it again, and now script is more correct. There is no longer blue regions, because they has no use. Green regions: you can jump from below. Teal: most likely you can't. But it won't push you down if you don't have increasing height (speed y negative). All maps without enemies: http://www.mediafire.com/file/djmwhy10kti20lt/Aero%20the%20Acro-Bat%202%20maps.zip To mark enemies I need to hardcode pics for each one. Maybe later. Same thing about "support objects": platforms, checkpoints, switches, etc.
Posted: 6/18/2018 3:21 AM
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Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (941)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Gameboy TAS of 2021
Wow those maps could be really useful, it's nice to see where everything is in context to each other. I feel like for it to really be of use, we need to find some sort of big glitch or trick, because there are a few stages where the exit to the level is very close to a midpoint of the level. This version of the game seems to have much better programming than the SNES version however, but to me I prefer it that way. It makes it more rewarding when you actually do find a new trick. Okay, so looking at the map for disco fever 3, I now see why we're able to get into that gap, and not able to do it with the cymbals. With this particular horn, there is the tiniest gap that's not present in any of the cymbals. [edit]: I've already found several small improvements that were inspired by taking a look at these maps, so they are actually coming in handy.
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 6/19/2018 5:00 PM
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Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (941)
Joined: 7/20/2011
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Gameboy TAS of 2021
Posting here just for reference and stuff. Found some locations for some zips and those maps r57shell posted are awesome for finding places to test it. Fort redstar 3 has 3 locations the zip can be used, and only one of them may actually save time, if very little. Here's an example of these zips: Link to video Link to video
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 6/19/2018 10:27 PM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 379
Location: Russia
So, after making 157 screenshots and croping 32 sprites, and hardcoding a lot... I have finished all levels up to performers dungeon (not including). It's intermediate result. http://www.mediafire.com/file/phbp9uuv36fvdts/Aero%20the%20Acro-Bat%202%20maps1.zip here it is. Two notes: 1) any object position might be slightly off, just because many of them are using ground level which I haven't implemented. 2) any object may have wrong palette, because I've used screenshots. Update: all maps inside
Posted: 6/23/2018 1:36 AM
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Challenger
He/Him
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Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1061
Sega TASer of 2017 TASer of 2017 NES TAS of 2017
I was watching your progress, and since I like this game (I played years ago), I noted an improvement for the Fort Redstar 3 during the long spike path: Here Good luck with the next levels.
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Posted: 6/23/2018 6:21 AM
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Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (941)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Gameboy TAS of 2021
Sorry for being such a newb, I can't open that bk2 for some reason. Do I need your savestate file?
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 6/23/2018 9:52 AM
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Challenger
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Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1061
Sega TASer of 2017 TASer of 2017 NES TAS of 2017
Exonym wrote:
Sorry for being such a newb, I can't open that bk2 for some reason. Do I need your savestate file?
Oh well, I forget to mention that I recorded using BizHawk 2.2.1.
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Posted: 6/23/2018 11:28 AM
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Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (941)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Gameboy TAS of 2021
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 6/23/2018 12:02 PM
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Challenger
He/Him
Skilled player (1689)
Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1061
Sega TASer of 2017 TASer of 2017 NES TAS of 2017
This is odd. So, I provided an encode with OSD to also shows input: Link to video
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Posted: 6/23/2018 12:14 PM
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Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (941)
Joined: 7/20/2011
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Gameboy TAS of 2021
Aha, I dunno why no one ever thought of that before. I'm currently working on redoing a small part of of this stage, so this is perfect timing
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 6/23/2018 2:50 PM
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Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (941)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Gameboy TAS of 2021
Added your improvement and a couple of other zips I found, improving the level by a bit. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47998694164282014 http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/48000058716844575 found a new route that involves us clipping through another slope.. 36 frames at the moment, can probably be optimized more
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 6/23/2018 4:29 PM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 379
Location: Russia
Final version of maps: http://www.mediafire.com/file/1q2l3k49eehmtb6/Aero%20the%20Acro-Bat%202%20maps2.zip Update 1: changed in 50_1, 51_1, 52_1 switch position into "open". Update 2: fix of update 1. I don't plan to change them anymore, except if someone find some bug in it. Ah... Changes: alpha channel, palette fix, priority, height based on floor, left/right flips. Next, I want to check how actually some of zips works.
Posted: 6/25/2018 10:03 AM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 379
Location: Russia
Link to video for zips down you need to push direction to the wall, and be as much as close to the wall. for zips up you need to push direction to the wall, be as muc has close to the wall, and have wall at least 3 blocks, because difference between head-hit-ceil point and floor check point is 32 pixels = 2 blocks exactly, and it's not enough, you need more. That one in redstar 3 doesn't work because there are exaclty two blocks below. So, not enough wall in that place. So, atm I know useful zips from Exonym: Bell castle 3 wall zip, Disco fever 2 tube zip, Dr Dis 1 barrel zip. Also tried and verified: 1) Disco fever 3 wall zip after 2-nd checkpoint. (right in the middle of the map) 2) Dr Dis 2 wall zip close to head. Update: Actually in Redstar 3 you can zip into bonus item room and use cannon, then you'll have to break wall from which you jump normaly, and make tricky jump from floor instead.
Posted: 6/25/2018 3:31 PM
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Exonym
Editor, Experienced player (941)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Gameboy TAS of 2021
Yeah my knowledge of the zips is basically what you just posted. We've just generally been chatting in discord about them as to not flood the forums here, but we've pretty much exhausted every opportunity up to disco fever 3 at the moment. We did discover a few throughout the fort redstar levels, which you could see from our latest WIP uploaded by arkiandruski: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/48030105600892210 That is... if you didn't refuse to use bizhawk :P Anyway, the one thing that's been bugging me lately is the flame powerup in Dr Dis Industries 1. I did some testing and to me it seemed like we were literally 2 pixels away from being able to drill up there off of the moving platform below.. We also can't land in the wall because it is slightly too high... The point of this is that it insta kills the miniboss, but currently the route to get to it would take too long as opposed to just killing the boss normally. As far as the cannon in FR3 I can honestly say I never tested it. In my mind using the cannon is super slow so I just assume it's slower... Probably should be tested though.
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
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