I've discovered that you've done a disassembly of Megaman. I'm curious! I'd like to know what extent is your knowledge about megaman. :)
Is it close to like Fusoya with Super Mario World... Or Giangurgolo with Super Mario RPG?
Probably not up to the level of knowledge of Fusoya re: SMW. I do not know about this Giangurgolo guy. But I probably do know or have the resources to acquire the knowledge about most that there is to know about that game. Some little details, like most of the code in bank 6, is rather uncharted. And I can't remember why the split-screen phenomenon happens after a certain glitch state.
With Super Mario RPG, Giangurgolo is what Fusoya is with Super mario World.
He did an application (Lazy Shell) that allows a user to modify basically everything like Fusoya with Lunar Magic.
What do you think about these kkind of applications(Lunar Magic)?
I personnally find them very fascinating since it shows how a game is made... and most importanly, the dedication of the coder toward a single game. :)
Could you elaborate? Does this apply to speedrunning and Go too? Isn't pretty much every aspect of human culture "kind of" idolatry?
Well, true, you could make that stretch, but I was mostly referring to its origins in Greece where the worship of (naked) body was prevalent, culminating in the Olympics (which also were performed naked). [1][2]
Today, sports is a worldwide phenomenon where people make their life's arrangements with sports events in mind; they have to stay up late, sometimes even take vacation, just to observe some particular sports match. They pay huge sums for tickets, and they are more passionate about the results of a big name match (say, Ice Hockey championships) than they are of the politics in their home land. Some even go as far as to ostracize the supporters of a competing team or treating them as traitors or enemies -- this is pretty rare though.
In religious terms, anything that takes an disproportionally elevated place in a person's life is an idol, a false god. To quote the Gospel according to Matthew / Mattityahu, "where your treasure is, there will your heart be also". This is in a context where Yeshua makes a stark comparison between accumulating treasures upon earth, where one night can be all that is needed for of your treasure losing all its value, and accumulating treasures in heaven, where "the moth and rust do not corrupt it".
This all roots back down to Deuteronomy 5:7-10, which says "You shall have none other gods before me. You shall not make yourself any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: You shall not bow down yourself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments."
The definition of what counts as an "idol" or "other god" vary, but I subscribe to the view that anything that comes before God (as described by Bible) is an idol. There are plenty of articles on that topic in the Internet. [3]
As such, it is indeed possible that any aspect of human culture can become an idol. It is also entirely possible that it does not become an idol for a person, even if it is that for a majority.
So, in my view, sports has the clearest makings of idolatry that there can be. It occupies a priority spot of the life of a majority, as well as of the media. Millions of people flock after sports, whether by travelling, or through telemedia. For the people sportsing, it occupies an unquestionable number one spot of their own life, going over nearly everything else. And its historic roots are in idolatry. But sports itself is not idolatry. It is the phenomenon and the role it plays in a person's life that is the defining point.
The definition of what counts as an "idol" or "other god" vary, but I subscribe to the view that anything that comes before God (as described by Bible) is an idol.
As a pragmatic agnostic1, does that make sandwiches my idols? Seeing as how I find them more important than god...
I understand your opinion, but I feel that false idolatry requires a certain amount of belief. After all, if you don't believe in a god, believe in a different god, don't care about god(s) or even consider god to be not-quite-as-jealous-as-portrayed-in-the-bible, you're not choosing <INSERT THING HERE> over god. You just like it a lot.
Take note that I do agree many people care far too about sports, but that opinion has nothing to do with religion.
That's the definition of healthy attitude in my opinion. One can "like a lot", "love", "be fond of", and it all can be healthy. Once it becomes "too much", it's kind of idolatry. Some people like sports too much, others make money on that. If all of them knew when to stop, sports wouldn't be idolatry.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
but I feel that false idolatry requires a certain amount of belief.
I like the way you are basically saying "it's not idolatry if you don't believe that there's an actual God you are putting behind". Loophole thinking...
Would this be fine? One's god is what ever one dedicates most of their life to.
Would this be fine? One's god is what ever one dedicates most of their life to.
I think this kind of thinking stems from the attempt at guilt-tripping people for completely normal behavior, in order to make them feel like they are doing something bad and need redemption.
Additionally, it doesn't make any sense. How is, for example, sleeping a "god" (whatever your definition of the term might be)? How is doing work to earn your livelihood and support yourself and your family a "god"? What does that term even mean, and why use that precise word? It's such a deliberately loaded word that makes little sense even from a religious point of view (much more so from a secular one).
but I feel that false idolatry requires a certain amount of belief.
I like the way you are basically saying "it's not idolatry if you don't believe that there's an actual God you are putting behind". Loophole thinking...
Would this be fine? One's god is what ever one dedicates most of their life to.
I'm talking specifically about false idolatry. False being the operative word in the sentence you quoted.
Also, and I fully realize this is a rather harsh opinion few people share with me, I believe that people live only for themselves. No matter how much good somebody does, I do not believe in selflessness. People are nice to other people (donate to charity, help friends move, whatever) because it benefits themselves: they gain status, karma, recognition quid-pro-quo-credit or it simply makes them feel good about themselves.
The same goes for religion, sports, fandom and other such things. It puts one's mind at ease, or gives someone a reason to live (something many people need to not feel bad about themselves). In short, everything you do, you do for you. You (knowingly or not) dedicate your entire life to yourself. Following your words, that makes you your own god.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Bisqwit wrote:
Today, sports is a worldwide phenomenon where people make their life's arrangements with sports events in mind; they have to stay up late, sometimes even take vacation, just to observe some particular sports match. They pay huge sums for tickets, and they are more passionate about the results of a big name match (say, Ice Hockey championships) than they are of the politics in their home land. Some even go as far as to ostracize the supporters of a competing team or treating them as traitors or enemies -- this is pretty rare though.
If we were to replace sports here with spouse and children, would the result be the same? Is caring for your family idolatry too?
Since you quoted Deuteronomy, see 6:5. You shall love God with all your heart..., does family not diminish that, as you are using some of your heart for loving them?
Bisqwit wrote:
In religious terms, anything that takes an disproportionally elevated place in a person's life is an idol, a false god.
Okay, so by your own definition, perhaps family is not idolatry, since it's not disproportionate to stay up late for them, sometimes take vacations, pay huge sums on their behalf, and be passionate about the outcome of their lives, more so than politics.
If this premise is correct, how do we know if something is disproportionate or not?
What about people who spend huge sums of time and money on open source software, ensure its constant advancement?
Bisqwit wrote:
This all roots back down to Deuteronomy 5:7-10
Oh? Not Exodus 20? You think Exodus 20 copied Deuteronomy 5?
Bisqwit wrote:
The definition of what counts as an "idol" or "other god" vary, but I subscribe to the view that anything that comes before God (as described by Bible) is an idol.
Perhaps you're putting emphasis in the wrong place. I see your translation, my translation would be:
"Do not deify anything in my presence".
I dislike your translation for two reasons:
1) You're viewing this sentence as applying the term god to things, in a way which may convey that there are multiple gods in existence. My translation instead focuses on the concept of not conveying the aspects one would attribute to God to other things.
2) You're translating the literal "on my face" as priority (something which doesn't seem to fit the context in other places the term is used). I see no such claim here as a matter of priorities, as if it's okay to have deities that are second to God. Rather I translate the literal "on my face" as "within my presence", and as such, since all existence is within the view of the Supreme Being, one is not permitted to deify anything, whether you assign a primary or secondary role to it.
In order to further backup support for my translation, notice that the paragraph goes on to describe what it means to deify something, as you yourself wrote: "You shall not make yourself any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: You shall not bow down yourself unto them, nor serve them"
As such, if sports is not being deified (meaning, considered a god, being prayed to, have sacrifices brought to it, etc...), I wouldn't consider it idolatry, regardless of how inappropriate people's priorities are towards it. You have a point about those making statues or sculptures of famous sports players though.
Edit:
To further argue against your translation of: "You shall have none other gods before me".
I'll quote ancient sources dealing with this verse.
The Septuagint (over 2000 year old Greek translation of the Bible, supposedly sanctioned by the high priest) renders:
"οὐκ ἔσονταί σοι θεοὶ ἕτεροι πλὴν ἐμοῦ."
I would translate that translation as: "You shall have no gods aside from me."
The Aramaic translation (named after its supposed translator Onkelos, nearly 2000 years ago) renders:
"לָא יִהְוֵי לָךְ אֱלָהּ אָחֳרָן, בָּר מִנִּי."
I would translate that translation as: "There shall not be for you other gods except for me."
Both are using mutual exclusion rather than precedence.
One of the oldest surviving commentaries on this verse is the Mekhilta (nearly 2000 years old), which has this tidbit:
על פני - למה נאמר? שלא ליתן פתחון פה לישראל, לומר: לא נצטווה על עבודה זרה אלא מי שיצא למצרים! לכך נאמר "על פני", לומר: מה אני חי וקיים לעולם ולעולמי עולמים - אף אתה ובנך ובן בנך לא תעבוד עבודה זרה עד סוף כל הדורות
I would translate this comment as: "On my face - why is this point needed? Not to allow the (future) Israelites to claim: The prohibition against foreign worship was only commanded to those who left Egypt! (as the previous verse mentions that He is God who took them out of Egypt) Therefore it says on my face, meaning: Just as I am eternal, so too all future descendents cannot worship foreignly for all eternity."
Whether you agree or disagree with this commentary, it seems pretty clear that it is understanding "on my face" as a matter of being in the presence of God (for all eternity) as opposed to priorities.
Therefore I would further render this comment and its understanding of the verses as follows:
I am the Lord your God who took you out of Egypt from servitude, therefore, do not deify anything in my presence. In my presence - why is this point needed? Not to allow the future Israelites to claim: The prohibition against foreign worship was only commanded to those who left Egypt, as the exhortation is limited to those where who took you out of Egypt applies. Therefore it says in my presence, meaning: Just as I am eternal, so too all future descendents cannot worship foreignly for all eternity, as that worship will always be in my presence.
The interesting takeaway from this commentary is that not only is it translating as I am. Where I took the subject of the exhortation as applying the prohibition to anything, it is understanding the subject here as a matter of time itself, extending the prohibition for all eternity.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Warp wrote:
Bisqwit wrote:
Would this be fine? One's god is what ever one dedicates most of their life to.
I think this kind of thinking stems from the attempt at guilt-tripping people for completely normal behavior, in order to make them feel like they are doing something bad and need redemption.
Did it make you feel guilty?
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
how do we know if something is disproportionate or not?
Isn't it relative and subjective?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
feos wrote:
Nach wrote:
how do we know if something is disproportionate or not?
Isn't it relative and subjective?
That's precisely why I'm asking Bisqwit for his criteria.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
I'm not sure where to post this, and since you seem to know quite a bit about computers so...
What does "Limited Connection" mean? What's the difference between that and no connection? I tried googling it, but it just shows ways to solve it, rather than a dictionary definition.
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Bisqwit wrote:
One's god is what ever one dedicates most of their life to.
So, religion is god for some people? Makes sense. That would explain why bigotry exists.
By the way, thanks for driving the bus! I really appreciate it.
Hello Bisqwit,
I've rewatched your run of Lunar pool (This one: [1500] NES Lunar Pool "no friction" by Bisqwit in 36:48.36). I wonder if you thought about doing a max friction run during the time the bot did the work.
Did you think about doing a max friction run?
I've rewatched your run of Lunar pool (This one: [1500] NES Lunar Pool "no friction" by Bisqwit in 36:48.36). I wonder if you thought about doing a max friction run during the time the bot did the work.
Did you think about doing a max friction run?
I suppose I did think of it, only to reject the idea very soon thereafter and forget about it completely: A max friction run would probably consist of prodding the billiard balls ahead a few centimeters at time hundreds of times per a board.
But in closer analysis, I think I do see there's a challenge in that: You must actually pocket _something_ every three shots, or you will lose lives (extra cue balls). Hmm...
Guernsey wrote:
What is the appeal of the mystery genre?
I had to Google "mystery genre" to see what you mean. I suppose people like puzzles? Thrill and suspense? To put oneself in the shoes of the person responsible solving the problem, and seeing how they compare?
Joined: 4/8/2005
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Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Listening to this Wikipedia article reminds me of Star Control II and Papers, Please. Did you create the audio version for this article? ^__^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutanese_passport
Listening to this Wikipedia article reminds me of Star Control II and Papers, Please. Did you create the audio version for this article? ^__^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutanese_passport
Dear Bisqwit,
how far back do your IRC logs reach?
If it reaches to 2008, would it be possible for you to provide the .txt file?
For some reason, I thought about asking you before anyone else.
Dear Bisqwit,
how far back do your IRC logs reach?
If it reaches to 2008, would it be possible for you to provide the .txt file?
For some reason, I thought about asking you before anyone else.
I don't log IRC chat. My IRC client has a RAM-based lastlog of 8192 lines, and it obviously resets whenever I reboot, and forgets the older lines as new ones scroll in. I use this lastlog often to search if someone has mentioned me within the past few days, and to look at the context if possible.
Additionally, BisqBot logs everything seen by him or by any of his agents, on any channel, except things said or mode-toggled on channels (i.e. no chatter), and has been doing so continuously since 1999.
Exceptionally, I do have about two months of IRC log on #nesvideos, back when it was on Enterthegame.com, from early 2004, beginning when I created the channel for the first time after persuation by Ramzi.
So, no, sorry but I don't have IRC logs from 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Bhutanese_Passport-1.ogg
