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Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
Well, then why not make a run that aims for the normal ending? It won't be as boring as the any% that has the bad ending, while you still face all of Phalanx's forms, IIRC.
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Because the normal ending is a waste of time and doesn't fit the low%/any%/100% derivation that a lot of us, including myself, use. You'll still fight Phalanx 1 and 2, sure, and it only adds like 3 minutes of playtime, but that's not enough of an enteratinment gain per time lost.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
Oh, that's really too bad... Still, maybe I'll try making a demo run for a normal ending and see how it looks like, if only for myself. Edit: Decided to post a wip of the demo run for fun. Since I'm not really that dedicated, if I think that a mistake I made doesn't cost too much time then I don't fix it, which is evident pretty much everywhere. That's one of the reasons that I don't think that I could ever make a proper TAS, not to mention a publish-worthy one. Link
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
But... to reach teh best ending, you need a password... or is that an extra ending?
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
Yeah, the best ending requires a password, but then you start with everything, plus the Heaven Crest which pretty much owns all the others. The only interesting thing is the extra boss which is rather tough, but I think that you need to get through the normal game-course to reach him.
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
The best ending is 100% from a fresh game. The ultimate quest mode is an extra ending, and would probably be lumped in as a "concept demo." That being said, low% and any% are the same, which is just killing Flier, Flame Lord, Belth, and Phalanx1. There is nothing between low% and 100% that constitutes a necessary new category.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Hey guys, I'm still around. I'm willing to work on this some more, and I have all the tools (but maybe not the skills) to keep going. If you read this post before I edited it, there was a moment where I thought I had never gotten the right ROM. Turns out I did have it, forgot, and found it just now. Anyway, I can keep going with this run, but I think I need to collaborate with someone on this. Problem is, there are certain parts of the game that I'm really just bad at manipulating (SKULL BASHING). I'm happy with my boss battles though. This is the WIP up to the Ovnunu mini eyes. They burn up fast. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1419342489/Demon%27s%20Crest%20%28US%29.smv Another edit: I just whipped up the rest of the Ovnunu battle. It's very fast, though probably not optimized. I think I saved some frames using the Earth Crest, though it may be better to transform earlier in the battle. Also, the strategy may need to be optimized so that the battle ends with Ovvy in the center, though this would prevent the use of the Earth Crest's breath attack (the one that shoots straight is much weaker). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1342703842/Demon%27s%20Crest%20%28US%29.smv After this I'm going to have to start doing tiny segment WIPs for everyone's convenience.
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
A quick update: I think for the Earth Crest to be effective during the Ovnunu battle, I would need to transform soon after Ovnunu comes out. Unfortunately, there are no good opportunities to hit him with the stronger breath attack, and so Flame Crest throughout the battle seems to be the fastest. Heading to stage 4, which should be fun.
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
The WIP looks great to me, not sure what else I could say.
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Actually, Earth Crest while taking damage is the faster way to fight Ovnunu. If you stand on either platform, you do 2x damage than Fire Crest (and you match it if you need to jump, which works if you need to reposition the small eyes with an air shot as they come out). Electro: Are you doing 100% or any/low%? Also, I'll watch your WIP and give you feedback, so long as you plan on submitting this eventually. There is, to be honest, no point in the game when you really need to manipulate anything outside of boss fights.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
100%, using your path. I do plan on submitting this eventually, but this would be my first submission, which is why I welcome any and all feedback. And you say the Earth Crest air shot matches the Fire Crest in power? That would indeed be a faster Ovnunu fight. I'll see what I can do about that.
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Actually, I amended the path a little bit for a 100%: Level 1 -> Somulo -> Vellum 1 -> Hippogriff 1 -> Arma 1 Level 2 -> Ovnunu Level 4 -> Vial 1 -> Hippogriff 2 -> Crown -> Vellum 2 -> Arma 2 Level 4 -> Flier 1 Level 3 -> Vial 2 -> Skull -> Flame Lord Level 3 -> Life Vessel 1 Level 6 -> Vial 3 -> Life Vessel 2 -> Armor -> Flier 2 -> Arma 3 Level 6 -> Vellum 3 -> Grewon1 Level 1 -> Vial 4 -> Life Vessel 3 Level 2 -> Vial 5 -> Hand -> Life Vessel 4 -> Belth Level 2 -> Vellum 4 -> Life Vessel 5 Head Butt Minigame Level 5 -> Life Vessel 6 -> Crawler Level 5 -> Life Vessel 7 -> Life Vessel 8 -> Holothurion Level 3 -> Vellum 5 -> Life Vessel 9 -> Scula Level 7 -> Hippogriff3 -> Fang -> Life Vessel 10 -> Grewon2 -> Phalanx I don't think I've forgotten anything in that list. For reference, Life Vessel 1 is after the forest burns down, 2 is behind the ice blocks, 3 is midway on the last cliff face, 4 is in the graveyards, 5 is near the candle area, 6 is in a statue, 7 is where Crawler spawned from, 8 is underwater, 9 is in an underwater room, and 12 is in the bell tower. Everything else is retrieved from games and bosses. If I forgot anything, be sure to point it out, or throw it in wherever. That route maximizes damage and movement capabilities at the expense of a few extra seconds of map movement, all of which I'm pretty sure are saved by faster boss fights and fluid movement. Also, just for kicks, here is the weapon damage values/boss HP counts/etc: Fire: 1 HP Buster: 1 HP Tornado: 0 HP Claw: 1 HP Demon: 3 HP Earth (air): 1 HP Earth (ground): 2 HP Air: 2 HP Water (dry): 1 HP Water (wet): 4 HP Legendary: 5 HP Somulo1: 7HP Somulo2: 4HP Hippogriff1: 16HP Arma1: 16HP Ovnunu's Eyes: 3 HP Ovnunu: 10 HP Belth: 32 HP Flame Lord1: 26 HP (fire immune, air resistant) Flame Lord2: 20 HP (fire immune) Scula (bottom): 24 HP Scula (top): 10 HP Flier1: 24 HP (150% weak to air) Hippogriff2: 24 HP Arma2: 32 HP Crawler: ~61 HP (immune to air) Holothurion: 75 HP Flier2: 48 HP (150% weak to air) Arma 3: 72 HP Grewon1: 64 HP Hippogriff 3: 64 HP Grewon2: 64 HP (200% weak to legendary) Phalanx 1: 30 HP Phalanx 2: 100 HP (drains water at 50HP) Phalanx 3: Dunno That being said, stand your ground with the Earth Crest until you can get the Time Crest. Then, use the Time Crest for every fight, even Holothurion and Phalanx2.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
I heard that you can instantly kill the Flier (at least the first one) with the death spell. I read it on a FAQ somewhere, but I always forgot to try it when I reached him. I'll check it out now. Edit: Well, that was a load of bull, unless the spell deals varying damage which with luck(-manipulation) could insta-kill the flier.
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
You can insta-kill him in the sense that you can multi-cast it before he starts being a nuisance. However, earning the money, buying the spells, and casting the spells (this one especially) takes a huge amount of time.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Looks like I'll have to start fresh, but I was planning on it anyway. I have the groundwork for the most important parts, and hopefully I will be able to hex edit them in.
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Sounds rad. Feel free to post here or PM me if you need any advice or whatnot.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Player (185)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 145
I'd considered doing a console speed run of this game, so I'd be interestedin discusssing routes/tricks and things if anyone is still around and interested in this game.
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Use my route for the 100%. It will shave about a minute off of Lucid Faia's speedrun routewise. The any% is pretty much the same, but you can work at least 30 seconds off of his run, since he accepted a lot of bad boss fights.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Wow, so for the past four days I've been polishing and repolishing the first level, but I haven't really made much headway. I've learned a few things though, while comparing my new video against my old one: - Flying takes up several extra frames, and so staying on the ground and killing enemies in your way (as long as there aren't too many to cause lag) is faster. It looks nice to only fly when necessary. This also makes for a somewhat more entertaining video. Unfortunately, opting to walk instead of fly seems to desynch my hippo fight no matter what I do, so no frames savable there, at least from what I can see. If I knew a little bit more about debugging, I could try to see what exactly causes the desynch. I have a feeling it has something to do with the way the game "bumps" Firebrand up onto a ledge when I'm flying at it a few pixels lower than the ledge (this happens twice, right when I collect the 20G and right when I'm flying over the last platform to hippogryph). - The other major thing I discovered is that the floating platforms are very slightly manipulatable, especially the fourth (I think fourth) one, which I have been able to manipulate to appear about 35 frames earlier than normal. Frustratingly enough, this desynchs the Arma fight. I have tried to find alternate ways to defeat him, since he's easier to manipulate, but I can't seem to finish him off on the ground anymore. I've gotten him about an inch above the ground while delivering the last blow, but never quite as low as i got him in the previous video. The time it takes for him to flap his wings once takes a little more than 35 frames, cancelling out the saved frames from manipulating the platform and still making my first video still the faster of the two. - I guess in my previous video, I wasn't hitting Y at the right times during the dialogue, and so I just alternate Y and Start to save frames there, except during the first dialogue with Arma, which I kept 3 frames longer, since this too seemed to desynch my Arma battle if I saved those 3 frames. - After defeating Somulo the first time, depending on where you're standing, Firebrand will jump through the door at different times. Optimizing this only saves up to 10 frames or so. Oddly enough, I couldn't improve this from my previous video, because I happened to be standing in the right place in both videos. In theory, I can save about 40-50 frames. In reality it looks like I can only save about 5 unless I can figure out why boss battles desynch. >.< If you must watch the new video, which saves a meager 5 frames, this is it: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1028714405/Demon%27s%20Crest%20%28US%29.smv I'll be working on the (hopefully) less frustrating 2nd level next. This will probably be my final run of the first level, unless someone wants to try to help me figure out why the boss battles are desynching.
Experienced player (614)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 612
So it keeps desyncing huh? Check to see if you have Interpolated sound on, under 'Sound'. If it's on, turn it off because it's been known to cause desyncs. That's one possibility. There does not seem to be a problem with your movie file settings, you've got all the settings on that are supposed to prevent desyncs so that's good. Who knows, maybe this game has the same problem as the Star Wars games do (I've not tried them myself but I've heard about the desyncs) where It has do with something other than sound.
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Well, it's not desynching in the traditional sense (i.e. recording a movie one way and it plays back a different way). What I've been doing is copy and pasting the boss battles with a hex editor (for example, moving the block of hex that contains boss fight data backward a few frames to compensate for the saved frames). The result is that the boss behaves differently.
Experienced player (614)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 612
I probably should have read your post entirely before answering :\ . In that regard, your best bet is to redo the boss fights as close as to the other run's (hopefully you can manage breaking even or a gain in time) or possibly waste a frame, or so, somewhere before entering the fight and then try hexing the fight together and see what comes of it. If you're not into wasting frames to gain time, you might consider finding even the slightest frame improvements (if possible and as long as they're not from lag frames since lag frames do not change outcomes, to my knowledge (unless the game depicts AI change from what frames you do what on)) in which could be enough to get the bosses to go back to the ways they were.
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
VANDAL wrote:
...or possibly waste a frame, or so, somewhere before entering the fight and then try hexing the fight together and see what comes of it.
Hm, this could possibly work. Who knows, maybe I'll only have to mess around for one or two frames, and that would barely even be noticeable.
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
I love you VANDAL. I tried out a more entertaining (and slightly frame saving) route through the graveyard. Then, I messed around for a few frames before the Hippogriff fight, and not only was I able to splice in the original fight, I was able to manipulate him so that he doesn't do a THING during, and never goes too high. Uh, also, when he had 1 HP left and was flashing, I was able to kill him without waiting for him to stop flashing. I guess this is a normal occurrence that I just never knew about. (If you look closely, you'll see two fireballs hitting him during the final blow time freeze). Unfortunately, I couldn't get the new route through the floating platform area spliced in without Arma still desynching. It's a small difference, however, so I think I'll keep the first level as-is. What do you guys think? http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1136951835/Demon%27s%20Crest%20%28US%29.smv 100 frames faster.
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
I really liked that hippogriff fight. Too bad you couldn't waste those frames in a less notice-able fashion though.
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