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Posted: 9/24/2007 1:26 AM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Looked great up until Phalanx1. Are you sure that you couldn't kill him faster by getting him to dive immediately without morphing? The switch just for that tiny ascent seems suspect.
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Posted: 9/24/2007 11:58 AM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
I dunno... from what I can tell, he doesn't swoop down until he reaches the left side of the screen. Even then, I can only hit him twice (maybe three times) meaning I have to wait for him to dive again regardless. As out of place as that switch looks, I think it might be necessary. Phalanx is annoyingly one pixel out of range. But of course, I could always be wrong. If I'm missing something obvious (like a way to manipulate Phalanx) just let me know, and I'll be happy to fix it. Assuming that I don't need to fix anything, here's the rest of the game: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1363899499/Demon%27s%20Crest%20%28US%29.smv
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Posted: 9/26/2007 11:58 AM
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negjay
Joined: 9/26/2007
Posts: 55
Location: Michigan
Zurreco wrote:
Also, just for kicks, here is the weapon damage values/boss HP counts/etc: Fire: 1 HP Buster: 1 HP Tornado: 0 HP Claw: 1 HP Demon: 3 HP Earth (air): 1 HP Earth (ground): 2 HP Air: 2 HP Water (dry): 1 HP Water (wet): 4 HP Legendary: 5 HP Somulo1: 7HP Somulo2: 4HP Hippogriff1: 16HP Arma1: 16HP Ovnunu's Eyes: 3 HP Ovnunu: 10 HP Belth: 32 HP Flame Lord1: 26 HP (fire immune, air resistant) Flame Lord2: 20 HP (fire immune) Scula (bottom): 24 HP Scula (top): 10 HP Flier1: 24 HP (150% weak to air) Hippogriff2: 24 HP Arma2: 32 HP Crawler: ~61 HP (immune to air) Holothurion: 75 HP Flier2: 48 HP (150% weak to air) Arma 3: 72 HP Grewon1: 64 HP Hippogriff 3: 64 HP Grewon2: 64 HP (200% weak to legendary) Phalanx 1: 30 HP Phalanx 2: 100 HP (drains water at 50HP) Phalanx 3: Dunno
QFFF KNRR DDLR XGTQ I just tried something with the final password. It was said in this thread that you still have to make your way through the game, that's not true. With the final password everything is already collected, every level is wide open, and the superboss is ready to throw down in his castle Northeast of Phalanx's. Also with that scale I just did a little checking with the damage of the Ultimate Gargoyle's breath; it's normal shot does 5 damage and it's X-Buster charged shot does 5 damage too. I always thought it did more, but the first Hippogriff still takes 3 shots + 1 regular fire crest shot whether your charge it or not. The charge shot penetrates, though, so it should still be much faster for cutting a hole through obstacles. I'm curious what kind of HP the Dark Demon has. If anyone feels like attempting a concept demo of the superboss challenge you should probably do it while taking no damage, since that'll make it a whole lot more impressive. Personally I've still never actually beaten him without using at least three ginsengs. Now I feel dumb though for always hitting him with so many charged shots. =/
Posted: 9/26/2007 2:05 PM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
negjay wrote:
If anyone feels like attempting a concept demo of the superboss challenge you should probably do it while taking no damage, since that'll make it a whole lot more impressive. Personally I've still never actually beaten him without using at least three ginsengs. Now I feel dumb though for always hitting him with so many charged shots. =/
I am currently working on a quick Dark Demon demo (alliteration yay), and it's extremely difficult to optimize shots while not getting hit, due to how huge and fast he is. Not to mention this means no hitting him while the lava flows (unless this is avoidable somehow). Also, I had NO idea you could charge up with the Ultimate Gargoyle.
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Posted: 9/26/2007 2:19 PM
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negjay
Joined: 9/26/2007
Posts: 55
Location: Michigan
Yeah I've surprised other people with the charge shot revelation. It came as a shock to me when I figured it out a few years back too; I got this game on Christmas in 1994 (along with FF3/6) and managed to 100% it on the first day. So I still feel kinda lame I never figured it out sooner. And I can't remember ever hitting him while the blood is flowing, I was always in a panic to stay alive... I was always too busy trying to stay alive and just took my time blasting him in the face in his other form. I'm not even sure it'd be possible to damage him while the blood is flowing.
Posted: 9/27/2007 2:33 AM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
EDIT: Nevermind, mystery partly solved. I should be fine.
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Posted: 9/29/2007 1:22 AM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Hey Zurreco, do you have a path for an any % run by any chance?
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Posted: 9/29/2007 1:43 AM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Straight to Bone Daddy, straight to Flame Lord, straight to Flier1, straight to Phalanx. That's all there is to it, I'm afraid. No need to pick up anything anywhere, either. This is why I'm not a fan of any%
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Posted: 9/29/2007 10:57 AM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Wow, so you can skip the entire story with Arma! This wouldn't be too hard of a movie to pull off fairly quickly. I'm probably going to touch up my current movie over the next long while, but I may do an any% run.
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Posted: 9/29/2007 11:29 AM
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Mechuyael
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
I'm not sure it's such a good idea (that is, if you plan to try and publish it). I remember how ripped off I felt when I got the bad ending.
Posted: 9/29/2007 12:18 PM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
It's funny, I never actually got the good ending until very recently. Back when I was little, I found everything in the game except for one Life Vessel (the one when the forest burns down; who would have thought to go back and look for one there?) and I figured, "Well, the game wouldn't penalize you for missing ONE Life Vessel, so this just must be the ending." That missing space where the last crest goes always bugged me, but I was resigned to the fact that the programmers just didn't put it in. Imagine how excited I was when I found out that there was a better ending and new gargoyle. Anyway, yeah, it would be pretty weird to do an any% run of this game.
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Posted: 9/29/2007 5:29 PM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
I'd like to see the passworded bonus mission run as a concept demo. It would be pretty fast, and it would show off enough new content that people might like it.
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Posted: 9/30/2007 1:34 PM
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negjay
Joined: 9/26/2007
Posts: 55
Location: Michigan
I'd be really impressed if the Dark Demon scenario could be cut down to four minutes or less, the thing has a rediculous amount of HP. That and is there really that much new content? His area is just long enough to allow you to excercise every technique the Ultimate Gargoyle can do and the only real significant change to the ending is the final still image. It's just that the superboss is so extremely difficult I'd be a lot more impressed to see a no damage battle. Well... that or maybe 100% runs of the previous two games in the series.
Posted: 9/30/2007 4:00 PM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
negjay wrote:
Well... that or maybe 100% runs of the previous two games in the series.
Gargoyle's Quest for Game Boy and Gargoyle's Quest 2 for NES, right? I've completely beaten 2 for NES (I actually learned about it after playing Demon's Crest for a few years), but I'm not too familiar with the Game Boy one. Maybe I'll give them a go. I seem to remember 2 being pretty short (shorter than DC) EDIT: I see the GB version has been done already.
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Posted: 10/3/2007 1:21 AM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
OK guys, here's the deal with Ovnunu (I know I've already explained this elsewhere, but bear with me): His slime pulses up and down during the phase where you kill the mini-eyes. Whenever he reaches his lowest point of the pulse, the game checks to see if the mini-eyes are all dead. If they are, he comes out. If not, he goes into another pulse cycle. Each pulse cycle lasts about 300 frames. Now, in my current run, this phase lasts for about 1200 frames (4 pulses). As I hypothesized earlier, it may be possible to shorten this phase to 900 frames (3 pulses). I've gotten quite close with random testing, but it's unfortunately quite tedious. What I'm wondering is if anyone is willing to help me find out what causes these eyeballs to come out and when (the memory addresses, or if some as-of-yet-unknown RNG *shudder* is the cause). The memory watcher feature built into the SNES9x just isn't working for me (maybe because I suck at watching RAM and am used to the ROM). So any help is appreciated. This would knock 5 seconds off my run if we can harness the power of the eyeballs! Oh, and in return, I'll give you a Dark Demon no damage concept demo. Deal?
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Posted: 10/3/2007 3:40 AM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
(maybe because I suck at watching RAM and am used to the ROM).
So... you know how to read disassembly, but don't know where to look? I found that 7E1DF8 is a counter for eyes that Firebrand has killed. This address is read at $83/D20C, and I'd bet the function you're looking for isn't too far off. I'd look into it further, but the power of my eyeballs is diminishing rapidly at this hour. ;)
Posted: 10/3/2007 11:10 AM
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negjay
Joined: 9/26/2007
Posts: 55
Location: Michigan
I'm no mechanic, I mostly just hurt people. Ahem, by that I mean I don't think I'll be of any use. I've beaten a thousand games on their hardest difficulties, I've been into emulation since 1996, and I've probably watched every single Mega Man 2 run this site has published (and their wips)... at least ten times. Videogames are the closest thing I have to a religion. My problem is, I don't really have anywhere near the patience for this sort of thing (I hop from game to game often). And breaking it all down to disassembly and analyzing how specific memory addresses affect specific game routines... man. That's all just way beyond me, I'd be way too anxious to run around shooting things in the face and blowing up cars to ensure every single frame was exact. I'm consistently in awe of what you guys put out, and even if it doesn't get published (and I don't see why it wouldn't) I still hafta say thanks ElectroSpecter for giving one of my favorite games of all time proper TAS treatment. Almost all of them have already been tackled so I've just lurked up until now. =)
Posted: 10/3/2007 12:06 PM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Dromiceius wrote:
So... you know how to read disassembly, but don't know where to look?
EDIT: I just realized that a ROM image isn't the same as a disassembly of a ROM. In fact, I don't know how to disassemble a ROM, but I'd like to learn how. Unfortunately, I can't find tutorials on it or anything. BUT, I did discover that values 7E1DE7 - 7E1DDE are the true/false values for the eyeballs. They all start at 9, and the moment an eyeball decides to come out, the value turns to 0. Now, I really don't know what I would do with this information, but I'm sure it's of importance to the search. The frustrating thing is, there's got to be a whole lot I'm missing. For example, depending on which frame the slime reaches the top of the vertical passage, different amounts of eyeballs will come out at different times. Also, I think some of the eyeballs are "linked," meaning that the next eyeball in the sequence won't emerge until it's linked eyeball has been defeated (I specified this because I thought at first the game just put a general limit on how many eyes could be out of the slime at one time). And negjay, thanks for the support!
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Posted: 10/3/2007 2:49 PM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Ok, quick update, I found a semi-decent disassembly program (though I can't get the disassembly in a txt file, which would be convenient). Anyway, I sorta figured out how some of it works, and I found another piece of helpful info. 7E1DE9 is a counter of how many "active" eyeballs are on the screen (either getting ready to emerge from the slime or already out). The address is read at 83:D209.
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Posted: 10/3/2007 4:15 PM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
I use DisPel with this sort of command line: dispel -l -p -b 83 -o game83.asm game.smc ...Which dumps the assembler as plain text into game83.asm. I don't think there are many tutorials, but the code pretty much speaks for itself if you have an opcode reference.
Anyway, I sorta figured out how some of it works, and I found another piece of helpful info. 7E1DE9 is a counter of how many "active" eyeballs are on the screen (either getting ready to emerge from the slime or already out). The address is read at 83:D209.
Nice. I'll have a look at it later today, if you haven't already figured it out by then.
Posted: 10/3/2007 4:36 PM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Man, I run Windows XP and the DOS emulator won't run the program. :( I think the key to the problem lies in finding what triggers values 7E1DDE - 7E1DE7 to switch from 9 to 0. I'm assuming that asking for the disassembly of a ROM isn't really against site policies (seeing as there's a Mega Man disassembly here by Bisqwit himself), so if you could send the txt file my way, I could try to figure it out myself, which would actually be kinda fun, because I want to learn this stuff.
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Posted: 10/3/2007 5:03 PM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
Eh? I don't think that's it. I'm using XP and it works fine. You need to use a batch file or run it from the command line, since the window will just pop up and vanish. Anyhow, here's bank 83... I think. I made sure to get headerless loRom, so there shouldn't be any problems.
Posted: 10/3/2007 5:29 PM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
That file seems to be different from what I was looking at before (for example, at 83/D20C, instead of saying $1DF8, it says $48). Also, I'm going to risk showing my ignorance and profess that I don't even know how to use a batch file and I can't run it from the command line. :/ Sorry to be such a pain. I'm gonna still try to figure out how to make it work though.
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Posted: 10/3/2007 5:38 PM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
That file seems to be different from what I was looking at before (for example, at 83/D20C, instead of saying $1DF8, it says $48).
Ack. I think that's because I neglected to use the -n switch, to reflect the ROM's lack of a header.
Also, I'm going to risk showing my ignorance and profess that I don't even know how to use a batch file and I can't run it from the command line. :/ Sorry to be such a pain. I'm gonna still try to figure out how to make it work though.
No worries- it's easy. You'll need dispel.exe and demon's crest.smc in the same folder. -Rename demon's crest.smc to something that won't confuse DOS, like demon.smc -create a text file and paste this line: dispel.exe -n -l -p -b 83 -o demon83.asm demon.smc Save and rename the file dis83.bat, then execute it. (A quick test reveals that the dump actually worked this time.)
Posted: 10/3/2007 7:58 PM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
That worked like a charm. Unfortunately, I think I am pretty much stuck at this point. I don't know enough to actually properly utilize the information in the opcode reference. There are a few key things that I just don't get that are preventing me from making progress, specifically what the direct page is, and also how to find a subroutine that the code is specifying. To give an example of how clueless I am at the moment, here are my notes on a sample block of disassembly (the same block that contains the Ovnunu mini eye data): 
83/D3B9:	E230    	SEP #$30     ; set bits x, d, i, 
                                   ; and z = 1
83/D3BB:	A542    	LDA $42      ; load the accumulator 
                                   ; with memory, also 
                                   ; deals with Direct Page?
83/D3BD:	F044    	BEQ $D403    ; something to do with a 
                                   ; branch to 83/D403?
83/D3BF:	220F8882	JSR $82880F  ; jump to subroutine at
                                   ; 82880F (not sure what
                                   ; this means)
83/D3C3:	903E    	BCC $D403    ; clear the carry bit at
                                   ; D403?
83/D3C5:	A636    	LDX $36      ; Load X register from 
                                   ; direct page
83/D3C7:	AD820D  	LDA $0D82    ; Load the accumulator
                                   ; with memory at 0D82
83/D3CA:	38      	SEC          ; set bit c = 1
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