Topic by Kingcobra52

Posted: 2/3/2008 12:43 AM

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Kingcobra52

Joined: 10/26/2007
Posts: 35

Well, I managed to improve World 1 by 97 frames. This was mainly due to optimizing the jumps in 1-2. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/581644803/Super%20Mario%20Bros%203b3.fcm Differences from the last WIP: 1-1: Same as before (didn't see any improvement here) 1-2: I jump at different times in order to keep my speed (thanks to JXQ for this tip) Fortress: No more studdering in the spike room, was able to grab the "?" as early as possible this time. Hammer Bro: Saved time by jumping on him instead of going under him and jumping. This makes it a bit more entertaining (methinks). 1-5: Level layout prevented me from maintaining my speed like in 1-2. Still saved ~4 frames, however. 1-6, Castle: Tried to save frames where possible, but otherwise not too much different than before. Next stop, World 2! Edit: Saved another 21 frames by grabbing the wand at the lowest point rather than the highest point. Thanks again to JXQ for pointing this out.

If the day before the day before yesterday is three days after Saturday, what day is today?

Posted: 2/3/2008 10:32 AM

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P.JBoy

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I think that getting the mushroom in 1-1 and getting the fire flower in the castle would have been faster when killing the boss. Getting the fire flower in the ship would probably have sped up the boss fight aswell. How come you couldn't use the 1st slope in 2-2 to keep all your speed. I still wonder if corner boosting is possible. That mushroom in the castle could probably be faster by jumping through the block (that is quite hard though). I take it that the hammer bro. wasn't on your priority list then

Posted: 2/3/2008 11:07 AM

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Tompa

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I doubt that you read my post, oh well =P. You can't do a walkathon run... You will be stuck in the pyramid. And the first castle in world 7 is also impossible to do. And also; I improved the first level with 6 frames. GG.

Posted: 2/3/2008 1:25 PM

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Xkeeper

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Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850

Tompa wrote:

I doubt that you read my post, oh well =P. You can't do a walkathon run... You will be stuck in the pyramid. And the first castle in world 7 is also impossible to do. And also; I improved the first level with 6 frames. GG.

I'm guessing you mean "Need to fly in these areas". Think outside the box of a normal TAS. Got the idea yet? No? P-Wings. Sure, you'd have to stop and grab a pair early on or sometime during the game, but they'd work well. Also, why not share your "improvement"? I could go around saying I improved it by 20 if I wanted, too.

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Posted: 2/3/2008 1:43 PM

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Tompa

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In the Pyramid you have to either use an enemy or to use the tail in order to destroy the wall. Duckjump through the wall doesn't work as far as I know. To use the P-Wing you need to press B to pick the item. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/636256404/SMB3Walkathon.fcm 7 frames faster. Should have been 8 if the HB wasn't an ass.

Posted: 2/3/2008 1:52 PM

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P.JBoy

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Exactly, corner boosting

Posted: 2/3/2008 2:14 PM

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Cardboard

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2 pages are too many for me to read. Is the idea not-to-run, or not-to-use-run-button-at-all?

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omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!

Posted: 2/3/2008 2:17 PM

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Tompa

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Not using B at all. E: I watched through JXQ's run to check for other places where it will be very hard, or impossible to get through without using B. 2-Pyramid. 3-9. Blue blocks in the end. Need speed to fall through, no slopes. 7-C1. Need to fly. 7-9. Blue blocks in the way, multiple times. Before you continue with the run, I suggest that you take a look at those levels to see if you even can finish the game. Which seems very unlikely =P.

Posted: 2/3/2008 6:16 PM

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Kingcobra52

Joined: 10/26/2007
Posts: 35

I think that getting the mushroom in 1-1 and getting the fire flower in the castle would have been faster when killing the boss. Getting the fire flower in the ship would probably have sped up the boss fight aswell.

You forgot one little detail. You have to press B to throw fireballs.

How come you couldn't use the 1st slope in 2-2 to keep all your speed.

Wow, just tested this out and it looks like that will be possible. I just assumed that you couldn't get up there without the block. <_<

I doubt that you read my post, oh well =P. You can't do a walkathon run... You will be stuck in the pyramid. And the first castle in world 7 is also impossible to do.

I did read your post, but I didn't see where either of those tricks can be used in World 1 (I doubt the faster autoscrolling is possible without b) I'm also aware of the levels that are not possible without b. If you read the details from the 1st page, I'm planning to use b 4 times (the minimum required) to use items to finish the game. It's technically still considered a walkathon since I never use b in the individual levels. 1. Use a hammer to get to the whistle in World 2 2. Use the whistle to get to World 6 3. Use a P-wing to beat World 7 1st Fortress. 4. Use Jugem's Cloud from World 6 to skip 7-9.

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/636256404/SMB3Walkathon.fcm 7 frames faster. Should have been 8 if the HB wasn't an ass.

Congrats for improving 1-1. How did you go about doing it? Both of our speeds were 18 the entire time. Did hitting/stomping things cause lag on my part, or was it something else? In the meantime, looks like I got a lot of improvements to make. >_>

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Posted: 2/3/2008 6:18 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
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I think it'd be fair to use items, since that use of B is outside the normal play of the game. Frankly, so long as he makes a TAS that's interesting, I don't care what rules he uses.

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Posted: 2/3/2008 6:20 PM

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P.JBoy

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Kingcobra52 wrote:

How did you go about doing it?

Corner boosting, like I said

Posted: 2/3/2008 6:27 PM

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Kingcobra52

Joined: 10/26/2007
Posts: 35

Corner boosting, like I said

So you're saying that falling from corners gives you a boost in speed, or something else? I didn't notice much difference when trying it out.

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Posted: 2/3/2008 6:28 PM

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P.JBoy

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Jumping into the bottom-right corner of a block from below, it boosts you about 1 pixel forward

Posted: 2/3/2008 6:32 PM

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Kingcobra52

Joined: 10/26/2007
Posts: 35

Oh ok. I see how that would help. Thanks for clarifying.

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Posted: 2/3/2008 11:01 PM

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Xkeeper

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Joined: 12/23/2004
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Derakon wrote:

I think it'd be fair to use items, since that use of B is outside the normal play of the game. Frankly, so long as he makes a TAS that's interesting, I don't care what rules he uses.

I would say that, as long as B is not used to accellerate (i.e., only in the usage of required block-throwing), then...

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Posted: 2/4/2008 9:27 PM

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Tompa

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Oops, I really missed the end of your post in the beginning. Must have scrolled too fast... Not using B to accelerate could work I presume. I don't know about anything where it won't be able to proceed.

Posted: 2/4/2008 10:23 PM

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Kingcobra52

Joined: 10/26/2007
Posts: 35

Hmm...In that case, which would you guys rather see? A run that only presses B to use items on the overworld (my original plan), or a run where B is never used to accelerate (but every other use of B is fair game)? If the latter, than which worlds would you like to see? (seeing that I could get the whistles in 1-3 and in World 2 with those rules) The fastest route obviously would be to get both whistles and go straight to World 8, but I don't know if it would end up being entertaining in the end.

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Posted: 2/4/2008 11:40 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

I'd say use B only to use items, and then play through all of the game without using whistles. But I know that there are plenty of people here who would complain that that means that the game is not as fast as it could be, especially considering the no-running rule. I do think that using B only on the overworld is a better constraint than using B only when it doesn't accelerate you, since the latter is much harder to show cleanly without inspecting the inputs.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 2/5/2008 3:33 AM

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snorlax

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I like your original plan I think. I agree with Derakon's criticism of allowing more freedom with the B button.

Posted: 2/5/2008 4:29 AM

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Chamale

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I vote for B only in the overworld.

Posted: 2/5/2008 6:24 AM

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Tompa

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If he isn't using any whistles, he'll be force to use B in the levels I mentioned, except 7-C1 as he can use a P-wing there. But in the other cases, naaah.

Posted: 2/5/2008 11:38 PM

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snorlax

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Tompa wrote:

If he isn't using any whistles, he'll be force to use B in the levels I mentioned, except 7-C1 as he can use a P-wing there. But in the other cases, naaah.

Reread his post. He's using a whistle.

1. Use a hammer to get to the whistle in World 2 2. Use the whistle to get to World 6 3. Use a P-wing to beat World 7 1st Fortress. 4. Use Jugem's Cloud from World 6 to skip 7-9.

Posted: 2/6/2008 6:28 AM

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Tompa

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I know Snorlax. I was talking to Derakon for example. Who says that it was ok to use items, but no flutes.

Posted: 2/6/2008 6:50 AM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Well, that was just a stated preference, since I tend to prefer to see games played reasonably completely (not necessarily 100%, but the fun's in the journey, not in getting to the destination). Since it looks like that preference isn't tenable, obviously I'm not going to get to see what I want. Which is fine. :)

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 2/8/2008 3:22 AM

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Kingcobra52

Joined: 10/26/2007
Posts: 35

Well guys, thanks to your advice, I was able to complete the 1st World 125 frames faster (not compared to the original, but to the 1st improved run), I'm also happy to say that every level was improved (except for the castle, which I ended up even). The improvements mainly come from corner boosting wherever possible and just using the 1st hill in 1-2. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1191593279/Super%20Mario%20Bros%203b4.fcm Individual level comments: 1-1: Saved 6 frames due to corner boosting. 1 cb opportunity wasn't taken cause I like going up in the clouds. :) 1-2: Biggest improvement by far. To be more entertaining, I go through the level backwards. (the hammer bro was being an ass though, which is why I delay grabbing the thing at the end.) Fortress: Same as before, with 2 cb's. Hammer bros: 5 frames faster. 1-5: Basically same as before. I get a bit lucky with freebie frames here. 1-6: 1 cb was barely possible, other than that, not much different. Castle: I'm pretty sure this can't be any faster. I really appreciate everyone helping me out. Especially JXQ, for all his knowledge from doing the warpless run, P.J, for pointing out a trick I didn't know, and Tompa, who showed me that even when it looks perfect, it might still have room for improvement. Based on the respones, I've decided to continue with my original plan and only use B for items. May I continue to World 2 now? :)

If the day before the day before yesterday is three days after Saturday, what day is today?