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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (240)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I've stated this before, but I'll say it again: I think we need to start with a run, a run that gets done. It won't be perfect, especially in this game, but we need a starting point. I think it will be easier from there. (life is short, and when a game gets years of planning it gets you thinking, doesn't it?).
Joined: 1/4/2011
Posts: 35
The only problem with just doing a run is that I'd hate for someone to spend months on a 4 hour Math Skill run similar to my unassisted run and have it get rejected due to lack of entertainment/repetitiveness. EDIT: You know, my unassisted runs can be the "starting point".
Joined: 9/7/2005
Posts: 143
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
chessjerk wrote:
I'd hate for someone to spend months on a 4 hour Math Skill run similar to my unassisted run and have it get rejected due to lack of entertainment/repetitiveness.
This right here. I think everyone worrying about a Calculator run should chill out. I know if I were a judge I'd reject a Calc-only run for that reason. It's cool and all to see Holy blow away everyone on the field once, maybe twice, but after that it fails to be fun. It could be branched, with Calc for pure speed, then something else having the "speed/entertainment tradeoff" tag. Personally, a solo Ramza run would be the most entertaining. The youngest Beoulve on a solitary quest for justice, cutting down all who oppose him with the greatest of ease. That said, a Solo Ramza game would have some difficult spots, notably the first Lucavi demon fight against Queklain/Cu Chulainn. Unless you take a few levels (the right levels?) in Ninja beforehand to crank up the speed, Queklain will probably go first and hit you with some terrible status. With the way statuses work in this game, I don't think you can manipulate a miss on them.
This guy are sick.
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (240)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
But why would it have to be a math skill run? Do an entertainment based run.
Joined: 1/4/2011
Posts: 35
OK, if Math Skill shouldn't be used, are there enough entertainment possibilities for a 6 hour run? Would that have a chance at acceptance? Also, what kinds of things would be considered "entertainment"? Killing enemies by knocking them off of roofs? Redirecting enemy spells onto other enemies? Using unusual ability combinations to win battles (e.g. Priest with Jump)?
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
Given the depth and variety of skills in this game, I think it's possible to do a run that continues to stay original and surprising. A solo Ramza run would be impressive to watch, anyway. Keep in mind that it wouldn't be a huge time loss to beat all enemies but one, then sleep the last foe and wait a couple seconds for bodies to crystallize (thus allowing the chance to learn new abilities later on). The abilities you can learn from an enemy change with the RNG, so you could theoretically pick up some expensive skills with a little manipulation.
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Joined: 9/7/2005
Posts: 143
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Acheron86 wrote:
Keep in mind that it wouldn't be a huge time loss to beat all enemies but one, then sleep the last foe and wait a couple seconds for bodies to crystallize (thus allowing the chance to learn new abilities later on). The abilities you can learn from an enemy change with the RNG, so you could theoretically pick up some expensive skills with a little manipulation.
I like this idea. I would rather watch this than the traditional method of JP grinding.
This guy are sick.
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
What if the restriction is applied that each battle entered must be finished as quickly as possible? In other words, you are not allowed to spend extra time in a battle even if doing so speeds up a later battle. (Outside of battles, you can do whatever makes the overall completion time shorter.) I think that would result in a run that either doesn't use the Calculator, or only uses him late in the game. I realize that this would rule out all sorts of additional strategies (including the one that was just posted above this), but the resulting lack of grinding would probably be a plus (entertainment-wise), and I'm pretty sure a TAS would be able to do extraordinary things even within those limitations (especially if good luck manipulation is possible).
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (240)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I like that suggestion very much. It doesn't generate questions that would only be "answered" later on, adds variety, etc. Unless it doesn't work, but it seems that it would work well. Heck, maybe it would mean some really difficult battles due to low level and lack of skills, which is interesting.
Joined: 1/4/2011
Posts: 35
Maybe something like this would work: Start with all three females with high Faith Get them and Ramza to level two Chemist at Gariland Turn them all into Wizards, glitch Wizard, learn Bolt 2, Flare and Magic Attack UP Get all to level two Wizard at Mandalia Turn them all into Time Mages with Black Magic, glitch Time Mage, learn Quick, Demi, Demi 2, Meteor, Short Charge, and Teleport Get them all to level two Time Mage at Sweegy Turn them all back to Wizards with Summon, glitch Summoner, learn Ramuh and Half MP Use these death machines to burn through the game quickly. (setup is Wizard/Summon/nothing/Magic Attack UP/Teleport) Use Ramza by himself in assassination battles if one spell is enough to win Recruit Mustadio and use him as a naked decoy if needed Recruit Orlandu if needed Switch to Time Magic as needed by Zodiac beasts
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
Honestly, though it would be a completely arbitrary goal, a good concept run could simply be to showcase every class. Between the JP glitch and crystal acquisition, you could easily have a Solo Ramza run that plays every class (except Mime and Dancer, of course). It would be quite delightful to see someone change classes before each battle to something intentionally terrible. Cripple Ramza with the worst abilities and classes for any given fight, then somehow pull out a ridiculous victory. It really is a shame such a run could not be considered publishable. It's exactly the kind of thing that would make a TAS of this game fun to watch. I wonder if it could qualify as a concept demo.
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Joined: 3/20/2010
Posts: 21
Acheron86 wrote:
Honestly, though it would be a completely arbitrary goal, a good concept run could simply be to showcase every class. Between the JP glitch and crystal acquisition, you could easily have a Solo Ramza run that plays every class (except Mime and Dancer, of course). It would be quite delightful to see someone change classes before each battle to something intentionally terrible. Cripple Ramza with the worst abilities and classes for any given fight, then somehow pull out a ridiculous victory. It really is a shame such a run could not be considered publishable. It's exactly the kind of thing that would make a TAS of this game fun to watch. I wonder if it could qualify as a concept demo.
This. With 1.3, War of the Gods. Want.
Joined: 7/30/2011
Posts: 129
Location: Watching a TAS in the basement...
nitsuja wrote:
What if the restriction is applied that each battle entered must be finished as quickly as possible? In other words, you are not allowed to spend extra time in a battle even if doing so speeds up a later battle. (Outside of battles, you can do whatever makes the overall completion time shorter.) I think that would result in a run that either doesn't use the Calculator, or only uses him late in the game. I realize that this would rule out all sorts of additional strategies (including the one that was just posted above this), but the resulting lack of grinding would probably be a plus (entertainment-wise), and I'm pretty sure a TAS would be able to do extraordinary things even within those limitations (especially if good luck manipulation is possible).
I saw a real-time playthrough of this on YT (no link because I'm lazy). Just search Final Fantasy Tactics MBO+ or something like that to find it. If the user was MoogleBoss, you found it. I found it very entertaining, and therefore agree with nitsuja's suggestion.
I am the future ruler of the world! My forum: http://elderyoshisisland.forumotion.com/
Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (39)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1911
Location: Floating Tower
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Joined: 1/4/2011
Posts: 35
Update: My latest unassisted run was accepted at SDA with a time of 4:22:16, so you guys have a new target to shoot for.
Joined: 1/4/2011
Posts: 35
Another update: my unassisted run was posted recently: http://speeddemosarchive.com/FinalFantasyTactics.html Ignore the time listed of 4:17, the SDA admins acknowledged they made an error with the timing. The correct time is 4:22:16. Is anyone still thinking of a TAS of this?
Former player
Joined: 3/27/2010
Posts: 270
chessjerk wrote:
Another update: my unassisted run was posted recently: http://speeddemosarchive.com/FinalFantasyTactics.html Ignore the time listed of 4:17, the SDA admins acknowledged they made an error with the timing. The correct time is 4:22:16. Is anyone still thinking of a TAS of this?
Yes, I will be doing a TAS of this as soon as it's possible to do one of it but it's not possible as far as I'm aware because of the guest glitch... Not to mention even if an update came tomorrow, I couldn't work on it yet til I'm done with Spyro :| (which is getting there finally).
Joined: 7/21/2012
Posts: 18
Hmm... so I was recently thinking of recording some gameplay in FFT via an emulator, and I stumbled upon these bugs myself and tried every way I can think of to get around them (re-downloading various components, even patching to 1.3). Then of course I stumbled upon this thread, which for some reason wasn't showing up in my Google search-fu. As a long time TASvideos spectator, I was pleasantly surprised to see that this was the site with the greatest wealth of information about the issue :) It seems like the current release of PSXjin has been out for several months with this issue listed on their bug report page as a new, but unaddressed issue (meaning they're not even actively working to fix it, as far as I could tell). My understanding is that there is no PSX emulator with standard "Record Movie" capabilities (i.e. actual movie files, not just running Fraps while you're playing) that can actually run FFT glitch-free. Considering that I'd love to sit through hours of various TAS runs (calc run, JP glitch run, "regular" run, hell even a 100% run)... and that I'd love to make some of my own videos... this is a sad state of affairs :( Is there anything I can do to help? I know projects like PSXjin depend on the free time and goodwill of those who developed the platform, but... donations and the like can often be a decent motivator for the otherwise unpaid but wonderful people who produce such things for the general public. I'd be more than happy to provide a little incentive for this issue to be bumped to the top of the to-do list. I realize a better place to post that suggestion would be the PSXjin mini-site itself, but it seems closely linked to TASvideos and I wanted to first triple-check that my understanding (that no recording emulators can run FFT) was correct. Thanks!
Former player
Joined: 3/27/2010
Posts: 270
dw0914 wrote:
Hmm... so I was recently thinking of recording some gameplay in FFT via an emulator, and I stumbled upon these bugs myself and tried every way I can think of to get around them (re-downloading various components, even patching to 1.3). Then of course I stumbled upon this thread, which for some reason wasn't showing up in my Google search-fu. As a long time TASvideos spectator, I was pleasantly surprised to see that this was the site with the greatest wealth of information about the issue :) It seems like the current release of PSXjin has been out for several months with this issue listed on their bug report page as a new, but unaddressed issue (meaning they're not even actively working to fix it, as far as I could tell). My understanding is that there is no PSX emulator with standard "Record Movie" capabilities (i.e. actual movie files, not just running Fraps while you're playing) that can actually run FFT glitch-free. Considering that I'd love to sit through hours of various TAS runs (calc run, JP glitch run, "regular" run, hell even a 100% run)... and that I'd love to make some of my own videos... this is a sad state of affairs :( Is there anything I can do to help? I know projects like PSXjin depend on the free time and goodwill of those who developed the platform, but... donations and the like can often be a decent motivator for the otherwise unpaid but wonderful people who produce such things for the general public. I'd be more than happy to provide a little incentive for this issue to be bumped to the top of the to-do list. I realize a better place to post that suggestion would be the PSXjin mini-site itself, but it seems closely linked to TASvideos and I wanted to first triple-check that my understanding (that no recording emulators can run FFT) was correct. Thanks!
Yes, you're right as far as we're aware. This community has been wanting a TAS of this game for quite a while now.
Joined: 7/21/2012
Posts: 18
Alright, thank you for the quick reply. If this issue is being worked on and there's any way I can support the people working on it... please let me know. I realize a little money doesn't magically make things work, but it's definitely a cause worth supporting with a little incentive :)
Bif
Joined: 7/3/2012
Posts: 6
I watched the speedrun of FFT by chessjerk, and I searched in vain if there was a TAS of this game. I saw that I wasn't alone to wait a TAS of this game, so I decided to TAS FFT. It will be my first TAS, but I will try to make a great TAS. Here is just a test of the beginning: Link to video
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
That was pretty sweet. Looking forward to more of that.
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Former player
Joined: 3/27/2010
Posts: 270
Bif wrote:
I watched the speedrun of FFT by chessjerk, and I searched in vain if there was a TAS of this game. I saw that I wasn't alone to wait a TAS of this game, so I decided to TAS FFT. It will be my first TAS, but I will try to make a great TAS. To prove my determination and that the TAS of this game is in progress, here is the beginning of my TAS: Link to video
What? HOW? Everytime we have tried to TAS this game, it just stops at Gafs first turn since he's a guest and the guest ai script halts, and doesn't load.. Movie or not. How exactly did you get this working? If you're using the NTSC version that's probably the same version we're trying out? Did you modify settings or anything like that??
Joined: 7/21/2012
Posts: 18
Torn338 wrote:
What? HOW? Everytime we have tried to TAS this game, it just stops at Gafs first turn since he's a guest and the guest ai script halts, and doesn't load.. Movie or not. How exactly did you get this working? If you're using the NTSC version that's probably the same version we're trying out? Did you modify settings or anything like that??
I second this. What emulator and game version are you using? Please post as much information as you're able. Here I was, ready to fork over some cash money to get things rolling, and it appears someone's already gotten things to work? :P To be clear... you're able to save state / RE-record with the emulator you're using, right?
Bif
Joined: 7/3/2012
Posts: 6
Torn338 wrote:
What? HOW? Everytime we have tried to TAS this game, it just stops at Gafs first turn since he's a guest and the guest ai script halts, and doesn't load.. Movie or not. How exactly did you get this working? If you're using the NTSC version that's probably the same version we're trying out? Did you modify settings or anything like that??
Yes, I had the same problem with the AI. I chose PSXjin v2.0.2, and I saw that it didn't work. So I decided to choose an other emulator which is accepted: PCSX-RR v0.1.3. It didn't work too, but when I chose internal HLE BIOS, it worked. I researched if there was a solution to play the game with an accepted BIOS (in our case, SCPH-1001). I found on the internet, that the "Activate special game fixes" and after "0x0008 Disable coord check" should be actived. I started with the PCSX-RR v0.1.3, it worked. After, I tried with the PSXjin v2.0.2, it also worked. /!\ A friend wanted to play this game, he tried with PSXjin v2.0.2, he activated the "Activate special game fixes" and "0X0008 Disable coord check", but it didn't work. He did the same thing with the PCSX-RR v0.1.3, it worked, after he returned on the PSXjin v2.0.2, it worked. I know, that in the Movie Rules, it's mentionned that
Movie Rules wrote:
The emulator should be set to emulate the system as closely as possible while still allowing the game to be played. You should not depend on a particular emulator hack to gain speed.
I hope that being forced to use it to run the game and find it in both emulators mean that it's tolerated.
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