Topic by Alyosha

Posted: 10/23/2015 10:14 AM

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Alyosha

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Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2728
Location: US

I've been too busy to make a lot of progress, but today I was finally able to sit down and at least get a rough draft of croctopus chase done with my new script. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/26369311450733872 I didn't resync the movie past 4-4, so it won't play the whole game, but the total time is an accurate representation of how long the run would be if submitted today. Overall, it was pretty easy to TAS the level once I could see what I was doing. The camera is quite difficult to work with though, and many of the big shortcuts I thought I could take turned out to be undoable since the camera simply got irreparably broken. The final level time of ~1:32 is about 18 seconds ahead of the previous complete attempt so that is progress at least. I don't know how it compares to the nico video ones. Anyway, with the techincal hurdle removed, its just a matter of time to get the run in shape now. Let's go! For Tompa and anyone else interesting in taking a stab at this, here's a link to my script and the file that contains the lines I used to outline the level. Maybe someone else can find a better route. https://www.dropbox.com/s/pcxokh5hytzyhz3/radar.zip?dl=0 I'm not a programmer, so I'm sure some clever person can improve the performance of that too, it does slow down emulation a bit.

Posted: 10/23/2015 3:30 PM

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Tompa

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I'm sadly not able to watch it currently. My desktop keeps crashing for unknown reason and this old laptop can't run Bizhawk properly.... But really nice. The times when the camera got stuck, did you keep on playing to see if it could fix itself later on? Did you do any research on when/why the camera speeds up and goes through obstacles? As I could never bother to figure it out back then, I got sick of the level. Also: Did you try to use Expresso?

Posted: 10/23/2015 3:48 PM

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jlun2

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Alyosha wrote:

Overall, it was pretty easy to TAS the level once I could see what I was doing. The camera is quite difficult to work with though, and many of the big shortcuts I thought I could take turned out to be undoable since the camera simply got irreparably broken.

How does the camera affect things? Also a video of a severely broken camera please.

LLCoolDave wrote:

This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.

Posted: 10/23/2015 11:47 PM

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Alyosha

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@tompa: yes I kept playing after it got stuck, but the camera never recovered. My working theory is that the camera behavior is closely linked to the current croctopus you are being chased by. For example if you are moving horizontally and the croctopus track requires you to go horizontally, the camera will move quickly horizontally too. This is as far as I have gotten. Similarly, the camera seems to break when it doesn't know what track you are on, could be by skipping a trigger? I didn't try expresso yet this was just a test run that I only spent a few hours on from scratch as proof of concept, much more research is needed. @jlun2: sorry I am unable to post videos at this time. However a simple to reproduce example is after the first set of blast barrels. You'll notice I go down to trigger a croctopus before going back up, if I just keep going up the camera gets stuck in a corner.

Posted: 10/25/2015 7:19 AM
(Edited: 10/25/2015 7:45 AM)

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Alyosha

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http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/26408577789790762 Ok! I got a new 101% completion WIP up and running. This one includes some major updates, including the super jump in 3-3, the croctopus chase improvement, and the rolling in the air glitch in 6-1, as well as some other minor improvements. Things are really shaping up! I tried doing some more work in croctopus chase, but I moved a bit too far ahead at one point and made the game stop spawning objects, including the exit, even though the camera still eventually caught up to me. So definitely more work is needed in that one, its practically a ~1:30 TAS all by itself. Also at this point I'd like to invite anyone else interested in this game who wants to work on this TAS to pm me, or even just jump in and start working. I simply don't have the time I used to to put into this and I would hate to see it languish again in WIPs, especially now that about 90% of it is finished, by my estimation. EDIT: vvvvvv Awesome! For me this will be the last update for at least the next month. I'll probably do some work on croctopus chase, but not much else, so anything that might get done between now and then will be welcome!

Posted: 10/25/2015 7:37 AM

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Tompa

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I want to help for sure, and will as well as soon as I have solved a few other things in my life first. Then you'll have my "full" focus for this project. Hopefully also get a new computer for it to be a bit smoother =). I'm impressed what you have done so far at least, though, as you already know, there is much to work on still!

Posted: 11/18/2015 10:36 AM

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Alyosha

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http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/26944546486367506 I did a test run with expresso. I ended up one second behind by level end. Originally I had tied diddy only run, but it didn't load the exit so I had to play more conservatively. I'm pretty confident the diddy only route will win in the end, because most of the time you gain with expresso you just give up again having to wait for the camera, and the setup time is longer, but its close enough to keep investigating both cases. On the up side, the whole thing only took a couple of hours to do, not bad considering the level kept the TAS from even being completed a few years ago, thanks BizHawk! EDIT: just to compare, my run takes a bit over 81 seconds, the nico TAS originally posted a few pages back does it in 98 seconds.

Posted: 11/18/2015 11:22 AM

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Reeve

Joined: 5/12/2009
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Alyosha wrote:

Just to compare, my run takes a bit over 81 seconds, the nico TAS originally posted a few pages back does it in 98 seconds.

Damn! That's amazing! Great work, Alyosha! Keep it up!

Posted: 12/5/2015 12:49 AM

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Alyosha

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small update as I try to work on 4-4 a little more in depth. I saved another 100 frames on the diddy only route, so its now pretty comfortably ahead of the expresso route. I'll still be doing both routes a few more times to make sure I arrive at the final correct answer. I don't see either route getting significantly faster at the moment, but I still have a few more ideas to try so who knows, the research continues.

Posted: 12/7/2015 8:05 PM

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Alyosha

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Ok so I got a bit better at controlling expresso through 4-4 and things are pretty close right now, diddy and expresso are currently only 40 frames apart, with diddy holding the slight lead. Still could go either way. One thing slowing down the expresso route is the setup. The vulture shoots the coconut to hit the dk barrel quite a bit later in the current run then in the nico video example. I'm not sure if this can be controlled or if its just emulation differences.

Posted: 12/15/2015 9:11 AM

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Tompa

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I need to wait another week at least before I'm able to watch your WIPs as well as helping out myself. As that's when my new computer will be up and ready. Just so you know =).

Posted: 12/15/2015 9:42 AM

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ALAKTORN

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Really excited for this. Good luck guys.

Posted: 12/18/2015 5:27 PM

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Alyosha

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Tompa wrote:

I need to wait another week at least before I'm able to watch your WIPs as well as helping out myself. As that's when my new computer will be up and ready. Just so you know =).

Cool, good luck with the new pc. I won't be doing much until after the holidays at this point, but in the mean time here is my current working file that completes the game with 101%. It has my most recent croctopus chase and I included some clever jump rolls that were in the nico video TAS as well. Now about 12 seconds faster then my last file, and 18 seconds to go to reach sub 43, not sure we'll get there though. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/27617079760156308

Posted: 1/3/2016 10:00 AM

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Tompa

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I'm finally on this! First level remade, 5 frames saved. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/27965502873453434

Posted: 1/3/2016 4:26 PM

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Alyosha

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Go Tompa! Save those frames! I doubt I can be of much help in the early levels given your level of expertise in this game, so I'll leave you to it and focus on Croctopus Chase for now. I want to get at least 2 more iterations done with and without expresso. Perhaps we can reconvene somewhere around Master Necky skip. In the mean time, good luck!

Posted: 1/5/2016 9:43 PM

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Tompa

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Second stage, ahead by 12 now. Also lost time because of lag differences in the level, though I got some back later on. Pretty nice overall.

Posted: 1/12/2016 1:24 PM

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Tompa

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So... A new glitch was found yesterday by RainbowSprinklez: http://www.twitch.tv/tompa/v/34893618 This will work, and likely save time, in lots and lots of levels. Not as many for 101% as for "All stages" however. The any% TAS is also improveable, which I'll make another April 1st submission for I suppose :).

Posted: 1/12/2016 2:21 PM

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AngerFist

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That was absolutely crazy! I really look forward to an improvement to the any% and 101% run :D

Nitrogenesis wrote:

Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!

Arc wrote:

I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.

natt wrote:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it

Cooljay wrote:

Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

Posted: 1/12/2016 2:39 PM

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Alyosha

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Wow that's a very timely discovery , awesome !

Posted: 1/12/2016 2:56 PM

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Tompa

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It being done in 1-3: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/574996523/1-3%20SuperJumpRoll.smv Just to show its potential in many other levels, not only the "obvious" ones. Of course, that's not useful for 101% however, and it's basically equal in time compared to the regular method =). There are a couple of variations done to this and other effects. When you do a Super Jump Roll (SJR) like this, you can either get the variation where you can roll out of the jumproll, which was seen in the Forest Frenzy version. This requires that you get a "double star" kill, when you see two "hit stars" when killing the enemy. I'm not certain on when this occurs however, compared to one star. If you only get one star, you can't roll afterwards. Though if you have the jumproll land you on the ground, when you start walking out of it, you can start rolling by ducking first. By doing this you can both get the glitch to work at "one star only" spots, and also delay when to start the roll in order to hit more enemies for more speed before taking off. Conclusion: I like this glitch.

Posted: 1/13/2016 12:50 AM

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Alyosha

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Back in 4-4 i have saved more time with expresso and am currently 45 frames ahead of the diddy route, i think i can save an additional second or so as well. Things are starting to break with increasingly minor changes now, so I take that to mean I'm closing in on an optimized version.

Posted: 1/13/2016 8:10 AM

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ALAKTORN

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Looking good!

Posted: 1/15/2016 2:05 PM

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Tompa

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A new any% TAS has been done already: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm28011951 It's my input for most levels, except for the end of Manic Mincers and Misty Mine. There are a few other things to improve in my old TAS (I think...). But this shows nicely how the new TAS will look like.

Posted: 1/16/2016 2:05 AM

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Alyosha

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^ that was fast, seeing that new glitch is action is really neat though, it makes the any % run seem much faster. I had a bit of a breakthrough in 4-4, and expresso is now ~150 frames ahead of diddy. I think this is the last attempt I'll make with expresso until the final version TAS gets up to 4-4. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/28246805744061414 Now I'll try and take what I learned and see if Diddy can catch up. Diddy has much less down time to work with though, so I'll not sure how much I can save, time will tell though.

Posted: 1/17/2016 7:45 PM

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Alyosha

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I have been testing out improvements for the diddy route and so far can only save a few dozen frames at most. The biggest problem with diddy is that to move efficiently horizontally he has to roll, but to move the camera efficiently he has to jump, and since diddy loses speed when jumping, I end up not gaining significant time. So I'm pretty comfortable now in declaring Expresso the winner. I would estimate that a final optimized version will likely save an additional ~30 frames, and I am still optimistic that more frames can be saved during the setup.