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This run aims for the fastest completion time in 1p very hard mode. I used the characther yoshi, instead of the common choice , fox. I Tas'ed two test runs before this one and i got to the conclusion that yoshi beats the game in a faster time than fox.
stage 1 : link - Not much seen here i used DJC to get him quickly to the edge and finished with FAIR. Couldn't use less DJC's and i had to manipulate link's DI in the right direction or no direction at all.
stage 2 : yoshi - painfull one, but i got an excelent run, the yoshis fell in favorable position's for the DTILTS which is the only technique that is able to 1 hit Ko them without a star finish on very hard mode.
stage 3 : Fox - re did this from the beggining about 7 times and finally managed to manipulate him to do a left roll which saved me from having to use a grab and saved a few frames. As for the DJCs, beautifull combo and got perfectly timed with the spike in the end
stage 4 : Mario bros. - Maybe the best stage in the whole run, got both the brothers in the same position allowing me to combo them exactly at the same time and saved a lot of frames.
stage 5: Pikachu - had a problem with the start. pikachu would come to the left side of the stage no matter what i did, i had to wait for him to do a dash attack so i could start the DJC. Just after the first NAIR pikachu did a roll to the right which helped a lot and saved 1 DJC, the last FAIR had to be delayed 1 frame in order for pikachu to die quicker saving another 7 frames.
stage 6: DK - Much faster than the usual fox strategy. Beating DK with 2 eggs was very quick, fast falling and delaying the last B allowed DK to die while still inside the egg and that was enough to get the time counter from 4:55 to 4:56.
stage 7 :kirby team - Another perfect stage. Killing the first kirby with a spike made the "mario kirby" come to the left platform and allowing me to manipulate the other kirbys in the same position.
stage 8 : samus - the strategy used was the one i found to be fastest but no matter what i changed in the whole run i had to waste 1 frame before starting running or else she would shoot the energy ball, having to jump early to avoid it, parrying it or anything was slower than wasting 1 frame.
stage 9 : metal mario - same as DK. metal mario dies faster because of his super weight.
stage 10 :polygon team - painfull one, manipulation all the polygons in the same position is very hard. Managed to manipulate a snorlax from a pokeball to kill 4 polygons before they could reach the floor.
final stage - Master hand went just as planned without modifications from my test runs. Just used a diferent manipulation using yoshi's second jump to hit the floor instead of falling normally, both takes the same ammount of frames.
bonus stages: the bonus stages are something that made yoshi an "unfavorable characther" but the improvements in the run make up for the time lost here.

mmbossman: In general, fighting games usually do not make good TASes when speed is the primary goal. The problem usually stems from having to use one or two strategies repeated over and over in order to achieve the fastest time. While this may impress people who are knowledgeable about the game, it tends to be monotonous for the average viewer, which I think the voting for this movie, along with the resulting discussion, has demonstrated.
Most of the fighting games with runs currently published focus on showing off, while still aiming to be moderately fast. I believe that this game also fits that mold; it is preferable to show off much of what the game has to offer while sacrificing some time for the benefit of more entertainment. While I acknowledge the fact that this will be an unpopular decision with some people, I believe that this game works better as a TAS when it focuses on entertainment. Therefore, I am rejecting this submission in favor of this submission.

adelikat: Unrejecting this submission for consideration into the Vault tier.
Nahoc: Added YT module.
Nahoc: Judging...
Nahoc: Rejecting this movie since it is clearly un-optimal by today's standards. An already faster TAS by DennisBalow using Kirby has been posted on YouTube in 2009. A new and faster submission using (most likely Kirby) would probably be accepted for the vault tier. Until then, it is meaningless to publish this as it fails to beat known records.


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Experienced player (583)
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bkDJ wrote:
XIF wrote:
I think its a shame the run doesnt show all of the game's quirks, but that'd easily be an hour long run going through all the characters in the game (which is an idea actually <_<)
In one of the previous SSB submissions (or perhaps the main thread, doesn't matetr), someone brought up the idea of [A] the game being beaten with 4 "interesting" characters (i.e. where lots of move variety (nonstandard like yoshi?) can be shown) to unlock everyone. Other ideas involved using sram to have all characters. Like, [B] playing around with each character at least once in 2, 3, or 4 player vs matches. Or [C] beating all the BtT and BtP levels. I think any of these 3 game plans, if well executed, has a shot at being published.
I agree with all of those. Regardless of the runs speed, it reminds me of the mk64 run that just went through the special cup to reach the credits. Maybe unlocking all the characters, completing every BtT/BtP, ect could make a much better run, IMO at least.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
Firefox died when I was writing this reply, so I've already forgotten how I wrote some of it. I'll try anyway.
alden wrote:
Why should anyone bother to try to make it faster if it's going to be rejected outright or run the risk of being called imperfect without any solid evidence?
The problem is that Blaze probably doesn't even realise theres a forum here. If he did, he could probably come here and say "I'm pretty sure this is opimized, heres why". Anyone else could also do this if they were here. I'd be interested to hear what he has to say on the many matters in this thread.
alden wrote:
And if I've read your argument correctly, you're not saying it's imperfect but rather that my "...views of entertaining are horrible...." I respect and appreciate the fact that you (and others) don't have to share the same opinions, but frankly, deriding other members of this community for their different views in such a dismissive manner is not very persuasive and frankly a bit disappointing. But I digress.
Regrettably I appear to have given the wrong impression in that part of my post. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion of course. I just feel that this run compared to some of the things antd does in his videos is... lacking extremely. I like this game alot and I don't feel it's gameplay is given justice by the same move many times over along with jumping into pits to display massive FAILURE messages twice. It just doesn't cut it for me.
alden wrote:
I guess what I really want to know is why it appears to be not perfect, since I can't see it at 100% like Baxter says.
in the multi-man fights, some are hit twice and some are hit once, with what could be suboptimal movement (has he bothered to see if attacking different people is faster?). That's what I see, anyway.
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That's good info, thank you. I too would be curious what this Blaze fellow has to say... And you are absolutely correct that an antd-style run would be way cooler. I just think that this is also pretty cool. I didn't mean to sound too harsh, it's just that implications of "inferior" opinions is a pet peeve of mine (and it happens here a lot more than it should). Oh, and for the record, I like that the bonus games were failed at top speed :)
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
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Alden wrote:
Why should anyone bother to try to make it faster if it's going to be rejected outright or run the risk of being called imperfect without any solid evidence?
There are some points to be made here. The votes will probably be about the same if a new version only aims for speed, just like this versionThere are certain things everyone seems to agree on here, for instance completing the bonus stages... I also heard from nearly everyone who voted 'no' that they liked antdgar's youtube movies. I don't think people think the game is a poor choice for TASing, it's just that the specific goals of this TAS (even though they may sound the most natural) were a bad choice. That being said, it would indeed be a bad idea to just improve this movie by an X amount of time, so I wouldn't suggest that. This of course means that there might not be any actual proof that this movie is not frame perfect... but since you said " I guess what I really want to know is why it appears to be not perfect, since I can't see it at 100% like Baxter says. I'll try to point some of them out then: 0:45 kicks a red yoshi, but he doesn't fly off the screen, he later returns several seconds later. 1:40 why aren't mario and luigi thrown off the right side? They are already at the right, and the moving platform at the bottom moves to the left, creating extra distance too. 2:21 I think it's technically possible (though I have no proof for this) to let giant DK walk off the platform without even touching him. 3:26 It looks like lots of damage can be done right on the platform, and that samus flies off way harder than is needed. Looks like it can be optimized with a different strategy. 3:47 Metal mario walking off the cliff himself? I admit though, this battle looked pretty fast. 4:38 What's keeping yoshi from beating the polygon to the left of him? 4:54 One polygon fighter has been on screen way too long, just look at a few moments back, when they were all killed instantly... this should be possible the entire time. 5:06 Last polygon enemy... seriously you think this looks perfect? If so, why are almost all 29 enemies before it killed with another (faster) move? 5:30 Can't the hand be manipulated to do a move closer to the ground? Another note, the rerecord count is very low, and although they don't say anything, they are a very, very good indication usually. I'll be perfectly honest with you... I think not a single stage in this TAS is frame perfect... the things I mentioned are only strategy changes, I think if it's looked at frame by frame, improvements at every stage can be found.
Joined: 3/11/2008
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in re pacifism: No, not walking off the cliff- MM's not that stupid, afaik. I got him to jump off over me to the left pretty easily though. Though not as fast as current strat, you can get Pika to kill itself due to its recovery move being just enough to cross over the rightmost tower and fall in the next pit. (Difficult to get it to jump off to the right far enough for this without a hit, but possible realtime console)
Joined: 4/30/2007
Posts: 150
mmbossman wrote:
this is me wrote:
the other 1% is the "because i said so" of course which is how runs like the DKR one get published
Voting results from Diddy Kong Racing: No 6 (11%) Yes 43 (81%) Meh 4 (7%) Current voting results from this submission: No 10 (20%) Yes 28 (58%) Meh 10 (20%) If you're going to criticize prior judging actions, at least get your facts straight.
what you said is correct but irrelevant to what i said i will ignore this though as thanks for your turok tas and adelikat's glover tas
N._Harmonik
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I wonder if, five years from now, we'll be having the same argument about the Adventure mode in SSBM.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
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this is me wrote:
mmbossman wrote:
this is me wrote:
the other 1% is the "because i said so" of course which is how runs like the DKR one get published
Voting results from Diddy Kong Racing: No 6 (11%) Yes 43 (81%) Meh 4 (7%) Current voting results from this submission: No 10 (20%) Yes 28 (58%) Meh 10 (20%) If you're going to criticize prior judging actions, at least get your facts straight.
what you said is correct but irrelevant to what i said i will ignore this though as thanks for your turok tas and adelikat's glover tas
How is it irrelevant? I read your post as "The Diddy Kong Racing run shouldn't have been accepted, and was only published because a judge liked it so much that he went against the crowd and accepted it anyway. This run should be no different". If I misinterpreted, I apologize, but could you clarify what you meant?
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N. Harmonik wrote:
I wonder if, five years from now, we'll be having the same argument about the Adventure mode in SSBM.
perhaps not, as Adventure has actual platforming. there's no reason why those stages wouldn't aim for fastest time.
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Raiscan: did u count the ammount of yoshis left when i hit the red yoshi twice? it's even, going down to kill him is a lot slower also hitting him there makes the last two yoshis come at favorable positions. As for the last polygon , link polygon does a jump or a down + A when entering the screen, waiting for him to land or parrying the Dair is slower than killing him with a quick spike.
Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635
Quick question about Samus. Is it possible to deal enough damage to her on the platform so that one of Yoshi's smashes can finish her off the side?
Joined: 4/30/2007
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mmbossman wrote:
How is it irrelevant? I read your post as "The Diddy Kong Racing run shouldn't have been accepted, and was only published because a judge liked it so much that he went against the crowd and accepted it anyway. This run should be no different". If I misinterpreted, I apologize, but could you clarify what you meant?
that was pretty close except i did not mean a crowd of people railed against it; i meant that it was another example of a "contentious" submission because the people who knew the game well called it unoptimized (which it was) and that the creator of the run did not know the game's mechanics well and there was arguing for several pages etc. etc. if i went into any more details or examples i would probably irritate/offend some people so i stop here anyway i am curious as to what loophole is going to be applied here or if the classic "wait until everyone forgets about it and then reject it for some random reason" will be employed
Joined: 2/26/2007
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this is me wrote:
anyway i am curious as to what loophole is going to be applied here or if the classic "wait until everyone forgets about it and then reject it for some random reason" will be employed
Is there a reason you need to sound like such an asshole? This is a debate, not snide remarks that ask for ass chewing, so as to continue the flame war. Note how Alden and [someone else] apologized and hugged and became friends again with the "I apologize for this, what I meant was this" etc. There is no need for apologizing and then immediately going into another rant with an asshole attitude implied in the text. I leave you with this: Opinions are great, but trying to stir up more shit is not. Try dropping your guns, chilling out, and observe/comment with an objective opinion. [/rant]
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
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Blaze wrote:
Raiscan: did u count the ammount of yoshis left when i hit the red yoshi twice? it's even, going down to kill him is a lot slower also hitting him there makes the last two yoshis come at favorable positions. As for the last polygon , link polygon does a jump or a down + A when entering the screen, waiting for him to land or parrying the Dair is slower than killing him with a quick spike.
If i remember right, the polygons characters that appear can be manipulated, correct?
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Joined: 12/23/2004
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AKA wrote:
I'm not going to go into depth with this submission other than saying I liked Comicalflop's version better. I don't see the game getting published since there is some people who are hell bent on not seeing the game published.
I have to agree. That run was more interesting and included a better goal set (max score). This one can be summarized, especially for the team stages, "sit in one spot and use the same move over and over until everybody is OHKOed off the side". There were very few interesting spots in this movie compared to the previous one. I honestly am very surprised that Comicalflop's movie didn't get published here; I've watched it several times and it's still fun to watch, even not having played SSB much (at all). This run basically cuts out all the fun of the game and basically pushes the "kill everything" button over and over instead of actually doing something different. Also, Comicalflop's taunting at the end of stages makes me giggle :)
moozooh wrote:
Just watched it, voting meh. It has a couple interesting moments (the Samus KO in particular), but about 90% of the run's time was best described by the first two bonus stages.
:)
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stickyman05 wrote:
Note how Alden and Raiscan (I think) apologized and hugged and became friends again with the "I apologize for this, what I meant was this" etc. There is no need for apologizing and then immediately going into another rant with an asshole attitude implied in the text
I didn't really apologise. I clarified. And since when was opinion an asshole attitude rant?
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Raiscan wrote:
stickyman05 wrote:
Note how Alden and Raiscan (I think) apologized and hugged and became friends again with the "I apologize for this, what I meant was this" etc. There is no need for apologizing and then immediately going into another rant with an asshole attitude implied in the text
I didn't really apologise. I clarified. And since when was opinion an asshole attitude rant?
It wasn't YOUR opinion, it was this is me's opinion, that had implications of being a straight up ass.
this is me wrote:
that was pretty close except i did not mean a crowd of people railed against it; i meant that it was another example of a "contentious" submission because the people who knew the game well called it unoptimized (which it was) and that the creator of the run did not know the game's mechanics well and there was arguing for several pages etc. etc.
Pretty much a clarification, but it leads to...
this is me wrote:
anyway i am curious as to what loophole is going to be applied here or if the classic "wait until everyone forgets about it and then reject it for some random reason" will be employed
...being more of an ass, which was unnecessary. Anyways, sorry for the misreference, I was too lazy to go back and check my facts Raiscan. *hug*
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
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stickyman05 wrote:
Note how Alden and Raiscan (I think) apologized and hugged and became friends again
Hey, fuck you sticky! Take that back!
Baxter wrote:
*a thorough list of potential time savers*
Thank you for that. It looks like Mr. Blaze rebutted some of these, but I'm not an expert though so I'm not sure if what he said makes sense. It's quite a bit more than I expected. I maintain that most people wouldn't notice, not that that's a defensible position :)
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
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<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
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link has to appear, and it was best for him to appear as the last polygon. as for the samus fight , damaging her at the platform then killing takes a lot longer than damaging her while going to the edge of the screen. and for the bonus levels, people seem to be forgeting that i aimed at the fastest completion, even if i completed them, they wouldn't be as entertaining as you think and would make my run be a lot slower than the previous one. It's impossible to mix entertainment and speed in this game without losing a bit of those aspects than doing them separatedly if you know what i mean, even though most of the ssb players found the run to be VERY entertaining in terms of ssb fights.
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Blaze wrote:
It's impossible to mix entertainment and speed in this game without losing a bit of those aspects
I agree! So, focus on entertainment :)
Voted NO for NO reason
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I don't really think a 1P completion based purely on entertainment would be accepted so well here.
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I enjoyed this, yes vote.
Joined: 3/7/2006
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Blaze wrote:
a 1P completion
Yeah this is pretty much the crux of the matter. It's a party game. Play it with a party!
Voted NO for NO reason
Former player
Joined: 8/24/2008
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Location: Brazil - Rio de Janeiro
Comicalflop aimend for the highest score so he did stuff you people consider entertaining but wasn't affecting his goal, as i aimed for the fastest time i made it as entertaining as it could get.I don't taunt in the end of the stage to avoid getting the fighter stance bonus which takes time to show up, see my point?
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