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Posted: 12/8/2008 2:43 PM
Post subject: Jeopardy! Deluxe Edition
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p0rtal_0f_rain
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Okay, there is a very simple way to TAS this game. Right off the bat, I cannot think of any ways to abuse programming errors - it's simply because I never even bothered playing Jeopardy! as a video game. If you want to TAS this game, let me give you my input. Show as demonstration. This may look like cheating, but this is one way that TAS work is supposed to be done. This will not only work the emulator, but your brain also. Aim for maximum money (score). The game does randomize where the Daily Double is placed on. According to rules, the first round has one DD while the double round has two. It would be great if it was placed anywhere in the $100 row. $200 is fine but make sure it is nowhere in the center or the bottom because more money is actually down there. Once you found the DD, save that for last until you "question every other answer" on the board. Then once you finally reach the DD, make it a true one so your money can sky-rocket. If you're lucky, you might end up with $17,800 by the end of the first round. It can be possible to break $100,000 by the end of the game after three true DD's. However, if the game can only allow $99,999 to a single player - then that can be the maximum score. One thing that can be annoying is that you have to go back and forth cycling through letters just to question the answer. But it can take a matter of frames to get things right and move on to the next. I might give this a shot soon.
Posted: 12/9/2008 4:48 AM
Post subject: Re: Jeopardy! Deluxe Edition
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Twisted_Eye
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Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
symbolic X wrote:
According to rules, the first round has one DD while the double round has two.
What can I say? The more DD's the better
Posted: 12/10/2008 5:26 AM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
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Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
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And I wish it can be possible to make fun of gameplay by throwing in a few entertainment tradeoffs just for giggles. I thought I'd give an example or two: 
QUESTION   RESPONSE
==================================================
Where is	"TASvideos.org?"
Where is	"my controller?  I lost it!"
What is    "A tool-assisted movie?"
What is    "a better way to pwn this game?!"
Who is     "the guy ripping this game apart?"
Basically, throw in a little bit of humor and sarcasm when questioning certain answers that Alex gives, but not all the questions nor actually confirming sarcastic response. You still have to plenty of time to delete characters and give the actual correct response - however, don't horse around. How will the judges feel about humor and sarcasm in a TAS?! Hmm... =))
Posted: 12/10/2008 5:42 AM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
Have you seen the Family Feud topic? That game actually awards points for ridiculous garbage. Granted, most of my answers in that demo are lame (regardless of what the digital family thinks) but... I think you get the idea.
Posted: 12/11/2008 4:04 AM
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DarkKobold
Skilled player (1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
Um, it is highly unlikely this run would get published, just so you know. Also, answering incorrectly results in the player waiting for a CPU to buzz in. I doubt that anything could really give a good tas experience.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 12/11/2008 9:05 AM
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Twisted_Eye
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You can still make the run yourself for amusement, and maybe amusement of others, though
Posted: 12/11/2008 12:36 PM
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Xkeeper
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
Dromiceius wrote:
Have you seen the Family Feud topic? That game actually awards points for ridiculous garbage. Granted, most of my answers in that demo are lame (regardless of what the digital family thinks) but... I think you get the idea.
On the contrary, I had quite a bit of fun trying to guess what you were putting in. :D Bonus points for putting in "SUCK IT TREBEK".
Perma-banned
Posted: 12/13/2008 4:37 PM
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DRybes
Joined: 1/17/2008
Posts: 133
As unentertaining as a TAS of jeopardy would be (ever try playing it normally? yeah.), it would be cool to achieve the highest score possible in the game. At least on the real show, a daily double is never placed in the lowest value row. I think it may be restricted to the 3rd row and down, but I could be wrong (it could also change between rounds). But yeah, let's assume the 3rd row is the lowest dollar value it goes to. So all you have to do is manipulate it to one of those slots and then proceed to answer every other question first for the round. Total score for round 1 is 100*6 + 200*6 + 300x5 + 400x6 + 500x6, then daily double takes score*2 = 17400. Double jeopardy is the same... 17400 + 200*6 + 400*6 + 600*4 + 800*6 + 1000*6 = 34200*2*2 = 136800. Final adds the additional double to 273,600 as the highest possible score on Jeopardy. Suck that, Ken Jennings. But yeah, it's an open question whether scores above 99,999 will even display. The game probably would keep track of it and might show it on the game over screen, but the score counters from that era were only capable of 5 digits. -- Considering that's the absolute most interesting you could make a game of jeopardy, I'd say don't waste your time unless you're doing it for personal reasons. And if you are going for a time attack, I think it would be much more amusing if you manipulated both computer players to answer wrong and end up in the hole by the end of double jeopardy, in which case you'd win by default and not have to sit through final.
Posted: 12/13/2008 9:48 PM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
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And as long as you question every answer and DD in both rounds, that means the two other computer players have zero dollars meaning they are still in the hole.
drybes wrote:
And if you are going for a time attack, I think it would be much more amusing if you manipulated both computer players to answer wrong and end up in the hole by the end of double jeopardy, in which case you'd win by default and not have to sit through final.
Posted: 1/26/2009 9:29 AM
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caitsith2
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Posts: 194
Seems this game can reward for the same ridiculous garbage that family feud did. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/789015333/Jeopardy%21%20Deluxe%20Edition%20%28U%29.smv for a quickie. (Only one answer, with enough time to read the question.)
Posted: 1/26/2009 11:45 PM
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errror1
Active player (292)
Joined: 12/16/2008
Posts: 458
Location: Houston
The Game objectives could be Give questions for all answers as close to snl celeberty jepordy as possible Aims for the highest score
Posted: 2/9/2009 3:26 AM
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Heisanevilgenius
Active player (405)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
Funny TAS of 2009 Innovative TAS of 2009
Since my Family Feud run seemed to be a big hit, I think I'll try for this one. First, can anyone confirm for certain that the daily double is always at least in the third row? My goals will be:
  • Abuse the text recognition as much as possible.
  • Get the most money as possible.
  • Give the player the maximum amount of time to read each clue
For the last point, that means I'll always buzz in at the closest possible frame in order for the clue to disappear off the screen at the same time it normally would. If an AI player buzzes in before that, I'll buzz in at the last possible frame to beat them if they answer correctly. If they answer incorrectly, I'll allow it for two reasons. 1. The NES version of Jeopardy sometimes had AI players buzz in really early to say something nonsensical and lose, so if this version has the same feature I'll let them do it rather than interrupt the player's reading time. 2. Just to humiliate them and make sure they end up with a negative amount of money.
Posted: 2/9/2009 4:44 AM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Sounds like good goals to me. Good luck coming up with silly answers!
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 2/9/2009 10:40 AM
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scaryice
Joined: 7/24/2007
Posts: 74
It would be interesting if you could come up with some sort of storyline with all the answers. Like for instance, the player could start off by saying hello to Alex, asking him about his family, then get madder and madder at him.
Posted: 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
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Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone
scaryice wrote:
It would be interesting if you could come up with some sort of storyline with all the answers. Like for instance, the player could start off by saying hello to Alex, asking him about his family, then get madder and madder at him.
Hey, good advice!
Posted: 2/10/2009 2:57 AM
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Heisanevilgenius
Active player (405)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
Funny TAS of 2009 Innovative TAS of 2009
Okay, in testing, I found that a daily double can appear in the second row of the first round. Not sure about the first row yet. I'll consider your idea, scaryice. It sounds interesting. Edit: Yep. You can definitely have a daily double in the first row.
Posted: 3/2/2009 5:44 PM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
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Joined: 12/5/2007
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Hyena: I got news for you. The game is likely the exact same thing as Family Feud and I noticed it. I found an example under the category "Artists" for $400.
Renoir was born in this French city known for its porcelain, and at 13 he was a porcelain decorator.
Answer: Limoges Modified answer: A Limousine Guest I don't know if you're still attacking this game, but I think we can go for another round of humor.
Posted: 3/3/2009 8:05 AM
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Heisanevilgenius
Active player (405)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
Funny TAS of 2009 Innovative TAS of 2009
Actually, I just came back to post an update. I have the first round all planned out and should be done fairly soon. Double Jeopardy will be an absolute PAIN to luck-manipulate since I want to have both daily doubles in the first row if possible and I don't even know if that's possible. Anyway, I'm reconsidering one of my criteria. I said I would allow maximum time for the player to read each clue, but this turns out to be a massive amount of wasted time. The game already has a set amount of time before you're allowed to answer, and after that, more than a couple of seconds is just tedious. I'm going to try to set some kind of happy medium. Maybe I should answer before 7 or before 5 or somewhere around there. Edit: Even that's a long wait. My rule will be to always answer as soon as possible (since there's plenty of time to read), except when allowing the computer to answer incorrectly.
Posted: 3/3/2009 12:53 PM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
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On top of all of this, I like the graphics! One thing that bores me a little is no music during the rounds. There is sound along the way which includes those from Alex Trebek and Johnny Gilbert. The rest of the entertainment will have to rely on the user's input. Speaking of manipulation, Alex gives the option to change the categories - however, I don't know if that will help straighten up the Daily Doubles.
Posted: 3/11/2009 8:07 PM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
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Hyena: sorry to bother, what's your status?
Posted: 3/13/2009 11:31 PM
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Heisanevilgenius
Active player (405)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
Funny TAS of 2009 Innovative TAS of 2009
Real-life issues interfering, but I should have something to show soon.
Posted: 3/15/2009 12:44 AM
(Edited: 3/15/2009 3:00 AM)
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Kejardon
Joined: 8/9/2004
Posts: 123
... I'm so addicted to hacking -_- 7E0004 = current P1 buttons 7E0008 = Newly pressed P1 buttons 7E082A = currently selected category column (0-5) 7E082B = currently selected dollar row (0-4) 7E0871,X = Bitmask: Already selected dollar rows for this category (100 = bit 0, 200 = bit 1, etc) (The game handles this mask REALLY strangely) 7E086B = Round number? Daily double count? 7E088F,X = DD Category 7E0891,X = DD Row 7FFFFE = RNG seed RNG routine is at 008593: 
$00/8593 08          PHP
$00/8594 C2 20       REP #$20
$00/8596 AF FE FF 7F LDA $7FFFFE
$00/859A F0 03       BEQ $03
$00/859C 0A          ASL A
$00/859D 90 03       BCC $03
$00/859F 49 87 1D    EOR #$1D87
$00/85A2 8F FE FF 7F STA $7FFFFE
$00/85A6 85 02       STA $02
$00/85A8 28          PLP 
$00/85A9 48          PHA
$00/85AA 68          PLA
$00/85AB 6B          RTL
So let's see... it runs the RNG and ANDs it with 7 until it gets a number less than 5, then puts that in for the first DD row. It then runs the RNG again, AND #$03, adds that with the other row's position +1, and if the result is over 4 it subtracts 5. To parse the results of the logic, the two Daily Doubles cannot be in the same dollar row. So no, you can't get both on $200, but you could get one on $200 and one on $400. You'll want to watch 7E0891 and 7E0892 and retry till one is 00 and the other is 01, I guess. Resetting the categories will change daily double location, but so will simply delaying a single frame sometime. And while I'm at it! 7E08A6,X = Correct answer (unless you have ASCII memorized this is probably kinda useless... but values over 60 are unnecessary characters - you can drop them without penalty. 5C is \ which means alternative answers) 00AF7A contains the answer-check routine. This may take a while to disassemble.... Values over 60 in 08A6 look like they are COMPLETELY ignored...? They still modify a few bits I don't know the purpose of though. Spaces in the answer are also completely ignored I think. It will ignore any bad matches in the text if you have extra letters the correct solution doesn't have, so you can add as many letters as you like. I think, to be considered correct, you have to have ALL of the characters of the answer (except spaces and lowercase(values above 60 hex or 96 decimal)) (or an alternative answer) in your answer sequentially, but again you can add whatever you like in between characters.
kwinse wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
Kriole wrote:
Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening.
That's a script action; no damage. ... it just dawned on me I know way too much about SM.
It took THAT to make you realize?
Posted: 3/15/2009 2:08 AM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
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Nice! :-D lmao...
Posted: 3/16/2009 4:35 PM
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legoking831
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Posts: 42
Location: In the USA, nowhere else.
Well, the Family Fued TAS was hilarious, and I really think TASVideos needs more runs like that. Good luck on the TAS!
Lego is awesome!
Posted: 3/17/2009 6:49 AM
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Heisanevilgenius
Active player (405)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
Funny TAS of 2009 Innovative TAS of 2009
Thanks a lot. That really helps. Also, I opened the ROM up with a hex editor, and the answers are all viewable as ASCII in the actual ROM (which wasn't the case with Family Feud) That should make things a little more fun. :D
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