Posted: 6/29/2009 11:40 AM
Post subject: Tool-assistance as part of gameplay mechanism
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Bisqwit
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http://braid-game.com/ Although this gimmick is already losing its novelty value (Sands of Time, TimeShift et al.), here's another game that employs tool-assistance (time manipulation) as part of its gameplay mechanism.
Posted: 6/29/2009 1:28 PM
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Kyrsimys
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Wow, you're pretty late to the party. Braid was released almost a year ago already. I enjoyed it when it came out but it's just too damn short :/
Posted: 6/29/2009 2:58 PM
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alden
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http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7282&highlight= :D I finally got it when it was released for PC, haven't finished it yet though :( Frustratingly, I haven't been able to figure out two of the puzzles in the first world, plus several in the 5th.
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
Posted: 7/2/2009 3:52 PM
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CtrlAltDestroy
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I've been playing Braid almost since it came out on the 360, and I don't even own a 360. I also got it the day it came out for PC. I still haven't beaten the Speedrun Mode or gotten any of the secret stars. Truly brilliant level design, and the innovation and implementation of its gimmick mechanic rivals that of Portal. The beautiful use of licensed music doesn't hurt either. I'd recommend this game to anybody. TASers would especially enjoy it, they'd probably master the rewinding a lot faster than most other people. But they'd still get hung up on a lot of the puzzles.
Posted: 7/2/2009 10:13 PM
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upthorn
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I'd also like to mention Bunny Must Die, a castlevania-styled Japanese independant platformer which involves time manipulation (freezing, rewinding, slowing down), although the player character is mostly immune to these effects. And, of course, Toribash, the Finnish independant stop-motion fighting game, where moves are performed by setting muscle contraction/relaxation/tensed states while time is frozen, advancing a few frames, and changing the state. It also has online multiplayer, where both players must set their muscles within 30 seconds, and motion can only be changed once every 10 frames.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Posted: 7/3/2009 8:47 AM
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Warp
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upthorn wrote:
And, of course, Toribash
That's one cool-looking trailer.
Posted: 7/3/2009 6:19 PM
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Zurreco
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upthorn wrote:
I'd also like to mention Bunny Must Die, a castlevania-styled Japanese independant platformer which involves time manipulation (freezing, rewinding, slowing down), although the player character is mostly immune to these effects.
Do you have any working links for this game?
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Posted: 7/3/2009 6:27 PM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Some searching turned up this link from this thread.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:28 AM
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nitsuja
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Temporal definitely deserves a mention here. Not only can you travel back in time to a specific time of your choice, but you can directly interact with your past selves (like push them around or jump on their heads) and they can interact with each other. Each one is just playing back its old input track, so you can get desyncs and usually you want to avoid that, but you can also do incredibly tricky things where you record input that doesn't make any sense yet and guess/plan where your future self will lend a hand to turn that input into meaningful actions. The game allows but penalizes time paradoxes, where you prevent your other selves from returning to the past, but it's also possible to change what they did in such a way that the resulting alternate reality still isn't a paradox. I think it's even possible to kill yourself in the past and then go back in time again and rescue yourself from your other self. That probably isn't the best description of its gameplay, but this game is quite challenging, a real mind-bender. And it has many things that remind one of the tools used to make TASes (more than I've described here).
Posted: 7/13/2009 9:41 AM
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Blublu
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nitsuja wrote:
Temporal definitely deserves a mention here. Not only can you travel back in time to a specific time of your choice, but you can directly interact with your past selves (like push them around or jump on their heads) and they can interact with each other. Each one is just playing back its old input track, so you can get desyncs and usually you want to avoid that, but you can also do incredibly tricky things where you record input that doesn't make any sense yet and guess/plan where your future self will lend a hand to turn that input into meaningful actions. The game allows but penalizes time paradoxes, where you prevent your other selves from returning to the past, but it's also possible to change what they did in such a way that the resulting alternate reality still isn't a paradox. I think it's even possible to kill yourself in the past and then go back in time again and rescue yourself from your other self. That probably isn't the best description of its gameplay, but this game is quite challenging, a real mind-bender. And it has many things that remind one of the tools used to make TASes (more than I've described here).
I am so hooked. This game is so great, and the online high score table is a super nice touch! If you'll excuse me, I will now shout THIS GAME IS TEH WIN. By the way, I currently have the best time on level XX (20), Dance on Air, by using a super secret technique. Mwahahahaha!
Posted: 7/13/2009 12:50 PM
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pirate_sephiroth
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New systems TAS of 2009
That game would be a lot better if they removed the chatting. Anyway I find Light Bot pretty decent. But it's not related to time at all.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 7/13/2009 1:18 PM
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Blublu
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You can disable all the dialog for finished levels in the options. All the delays are removed, including all dialog and mini-cutscenes. The game is very very speedrun-friendly. Edit: Alternatively, you can press enter to instantly skip the current dialog/cutscene.
Posted: 7/14/2009 6:07 PM
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flagitious
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Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
I just started Temporal, and I must say it is one of the most well made free games I have ever seen. I haven't gotten that far yet, but its originality and game mechanic have a lot of potential for some cool puzzles that I look forward to solving.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 7/15/2009 10:47 AM
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pirate_sephiroth
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New systems TAS of 2009
Wow, Bunny Must Die is really impressive... Metroid + Castlevania with some Gunstar Heroes... EDIT: Get this patch to translate it and to make it work in your non-japanese Windows. WTF they mention Upthorn there...
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 7/15/2009 2:24 PM
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upthorn
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pirate_sephiroth wrote:
Wow, Bunny Must Die is really impressive... Metroid + Castlevania with some Gunstar Heroes... EDIT: Get this patch to translate it and to make it work in your non-japanese Windows. WTF they mention Upthorn there...
That is only because I did the translation and wrote the tools to pack/unpack the game image data files.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Posted: 7/16/2009 8:07 PM
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flagitious
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Blublu wrote:
You can disable all the dialog for finished levels in the options. All the delays are removed, including all dialog and mini-cutscenes. The game is very very speedrun-friendly. Edit: Alternatively, you can press enter to instantly skip the current dialog/cutscene.
I noticed you have some good scores (no idea how to get under 2:03 in lvl iv for example), although it looks like mara retook lvl xx. I haven't quite beaten the game yet (on lvl 29), but I'll post mine when I complete it. Edit: figured out your trick for lvl xx. That is really clever but the super low time makes it easier to figure out since there are only so many things you can do in that time. If you really wanted to boggle there mind you could have made it purposefully like 30 seconds slower :) Also submitted my scores. I have only tried to get good times on the early levels so far, and some I have no idea how to improve that much, like Pling's recent level III. It has to be something weird/bug since any normal improvement would improve time by about increments of 30 seconds due timing of lift.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 7/19/2009 8:05 AM
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pirate_sephiroth
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New systems TAS of 2009
Use Boxmen is really cool.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 7/19/2009 6:40 PM
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Blublu
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flagitious wrote:
Edit: figured out your trick for lvl xx. That is really clever but the super low time makes it easier to figure out since there are only so many things you can do in that time. If you really wanted to boggle there mind you could have made it purposefully like 30 seconds slower :)
I know! I should have made it as little fster than the #1 record as possible, then just repeating if it was ever retaken. :) Unfortunately I'm not that slimy, and didn't realize that until afterwards anyway.
Posted: 8/6/2009 7:54 PM
Post subject: Re: Tool-assistance as part of gameplay mechanism
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Warp
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Bisqwit wrote:
http://braid-game.com/
You just gave free advertisement to the author of that game because your post gave me the incentive to go and buy it through steam... :) It's indeed quite a novel game, although quite short (even for its price). I like the artistic, slightly abstract feeling to the entire game (not just the graphics, but basically everything). Also the time manipulation was quite creatively used at places. I especially liked the idea of "playing in reverse, and then rewinding to see what actually happened" (or kind of) in the final level. Really messes up the concept of what is being played straight and what in reverse time.