I had the idea of a movie file which beats all of the 4 main Sonic Genesis games a while ago. After a few test runs I made [URL=http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3639/Kuwaga_Sonic123K_WIPv01.gmv]this[/URL] little gmv-file. [URL=http://rapidshare.com/files/12290547/4.avi.html]Here[/URL] is an avi-version which plays back all four movies simultaneously. The movie quality is really bad as I have a very slow PC and I didn't want to wait forever until I can watch it.
I'm not aiming for perfection with this run. I tried to aim for perfection in a test run, but it looked really bad, because it didn't look like it was played with the same input at all. So I decided I would avoid desyncs between the 4 games whenever it's possible without making it look clumsy.
The reason I'm posting this now is because I didn't use the faster route in Sonic1 act2. I didn't even try it because I thought you had to press left for much longer than you actually have to. So now I want some opinions if I should redo that stage or just leave it like that.
I don't want to redo it for nothing because my rerecord count is already very high. So if you don't care about the other route, I will leave it like that. Also, if nobody cares about the entire run or I get bored while making it, I won't even finish it at all, haha. >_>
Edit: I used the JUE versions of Sonic 1,2 and K and the Japanese version of Sonic 3.
This seems like a pretty ambitious project, but if you can do it, it should be worth it. I watched your avi, and so far it looks pretty good. One request: on future avis could you have the ssound be the the sound that's coming out of the games?
Two things, I notice you never really get fast enough to leave the camera. Might be a few exploits there. Also, you can take damage. I don't know if anything in that run would lead to a faster route on any of the games if you took damage in one, but it would worth checking out.
How close to finishing at the same time do you think you can get?
I can't use the sound that's coming out of the games. 4 BGMs played at once just doesn't sound too good, even if I let two of them come from the right and the other two from the left speaker. SFX only would be cool, but I can't get it to work without much effort.
I refuse to take damage because it would look clumsy, I also don't think it would have saved any time up to now. And I don't want to slow down one game just to finish them at the same time. I'll think about stuff like that when I'm in the later stages.
I also don't want to use any of nitsuja's glitches to go past the left boundary of a level to scroll super fast through them. Maybe that's what you meant by getting fast enough to leave the camera. I think it would look cheap, I want to keep them in sync as much as possible.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
Kuwaga wrote:
.... I don't want to slow down one game just to finish them at the same time.
I also don't want to use any of Nitsuja's glitches to go past the left boundary of a level to scroll super fast through them. Maybe that's what you meant by getting fast enough to leave the camera. I think it would look cheap, I want to keep them in sync as much as possible.
That sounds slightly contradictory. Besides, if one is busy scrolling to the right you only have 3 other games to contend with while the other one is busy :)
Or at least if one game is slower than the rest to give it a chance to catch up.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
I don't want to slow down one game just to finish them at the same time, but I do want to slow down all four of them to make it look better. You have no idea how bad my old version of the run looked, back then when I wasn't aiming for keeping them in sync.
By keeping them in sync I mean stuff like making them jump at the same time. The difference is generally very subtle, but it looks better overall, trust me.
Yeah it would be easier to let one scroll to the right by its own, but that's exactly why I don't want to do it, maybe I should change my mind though. You need Tails anyway for the Icecap glitch and one of the Flying Battery glitches (I think). I'm not so sure about that actually, but I think you need Tails in FB1 so Sonic doesn't touch that flying platform and he has to destroy an ice block or something in Icecap1 to make that one work.
Marble Garden, Carnival Night and FB2 should work however. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, btw, I was able to get into Knuckles' version of act2 in Angel Island. Going through those rocks at the end of the act1 doesn't kill you like in S3&K. But there's no boss at the end of act2 and I haven't been able to complete it.
I watched all 4 separately in Gens. if you want, for future incarnations of the run, I could try to encode them... maybe make 2 audio tracks you can toggle, one doing the top two games and the other dowing the bottom two... I'd need to get all the programs I need for that but I'm just offering support.
This is probably a poor concept for a run. The games are very different, and some of them are much longer than others. Also, I believe you'll find it very difficult to make anything entertaining happen when you hit Labyrinth zone in sonic 1, ice cap zone in sonic 3, or sandopolis zone in sonic & knuckles.
Unless you're willing to use some glitches to make things go faster in one game than the others, this just isn't going to work very well.
I think a much better concept for a run would be one that (by editing 3 frames during the menu) completes S3&K as Sonic alone, Tails alone, and Knuckles alone.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
if you want, for future incarnations of the run, I could try to encode them...
Thanks, however I don't know if I'll continue the run at all right now. I've heard it's a poor concept.
upthorn wrote:
This is probably a poor concept for a run. The games are very different, and some of them are much longer than others.
Haha. That's funny because I can't think of any other four games that would be more similar (except for Mega Man, but that has already been done).
Also, I believe you'll find it very difficult to make anything entertaining happen when you hit Labyrinth zone in sonic 1, ice cap zone in sonic 3, or sandopolis zone in sonic & knuckles.
Labyrinth zone is going to be a problem, I guess. I'll have to use lots of spin dashes while Sonic1 has to go left. But the real problem will be that one moving platform over the lava in Marble Zone where I almost have to stand still.
For Ice Cap and Sandopolis, I don't really see a problem, as I can use the flame shield in Sandopolis to go into the other direction. Or I can just run into a wall and then make a spin dash into the other direction. The other games won't really be affected much by this. Under perfect conditions it would work like this:
Hitting the wall, turning around by pressing left for one frame, wait one or two frames, duck for one frame while the other Sonics are in the air. And then I can press down+right and charge the spin dash. Sonic won't start a roll if I press down+right in the other games. It's the same as pressing just right alone. After the first spindash into the "wrong" direction it should be easy to start another one if necessary because Sonic will slow down while I run to the right in the other games.
I don't see a huge problem, but maybe you're still right, I don't know. You're more experienced after all.
Edit: Ice Cap will be a problem, I forgot about those blocks I need to stand on to break the doors :/
Unless you're willing to use some glitches to make things go faster in one game than the others, this just isn't going to work very well.
I don't see what's the big deal if games don't finish at the same time, if that's what you're trying to say with that. If for example 2 games are being completed faster they can just be hidden away in the video after that. Wouldn't bother me at all as a viewer.
So yeah, upthorn thinks it's a bad idea to continue the run. Maybe he's right and I should go back into my hole and hide again. XD
I'm not interested in completing the run if nobody wants to see it.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I thought it was entertaining so I would definitely would like you to continue.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
upthorn wrote:
I think a much better concept for a run would be one that (by editing 3 frames during the menu) completes S3&K as Sonic alone, Tails alone, and Knuckles alone.
I would like to see such a run being made. I hope you're working on it in secret to wow us all.
Kuwanga wrote:
I'm not interested in completing the run if nobody wants to see it.
If you think you will be able to persevere through problems through Labarynth Zone and Lava Reef Act 2 boss as well as keep the quality from the first WIP you've shown, I really think you should give this a shot. At the very least, you can say you have "master input" for beating 4 different Sonic games, which would definately attract all the ladies/slobbering Sonic fanboys.
I still think you might have to do some level wrapping and at the very least screen scrolling.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
So yeah, upthorn thinks it's a bad idea to continue the run. Maybe he's right and I should go back into my hole and hide again. XD
I'm not interested in completing the run if nobody wants to see it.
Even if the project itself isn't really poor (although it is indeed true that you'll encounter numerous problems trying to keep everything in sync and not waste way too much time), your logic still is:
1) Upthorn has politely presented rational reasons on what would be the problems of such a project — you interpreted it as if he think it's a bad idea and doesn't want you to continue;
2) if Upthorn doesn't want to see this (which isn't true, btw), it means no-one wants to see this? Upthorn = everyone?
If you're so weak against polite and rational criticism, I don't see you succeeding with any projects on this site, because everything everyone says may be interpreted as a sign saying to stop doing anything and "go back to your hole".
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
To clarify, I'm not saying that this is for sure a bad idea, I just have difficulty envisioning how it would work (compared to MMX + MMX2 for instance)
also, when I say that the games are very different, what I mean is, the level layouts are quite different, and because of the complex physics involved, that can lead to some unforeseen complications with every jump.
For that reason, I certainly wouldn't commit even to dual-running S2 & S3, let alone quad-running S1 - S&K.
But if you've got it planned out already, then by all means, continue. I think there's ample demonstration that there are people who will find it entertaining.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
I think a much better concept for a run would be one that (by editing 3 frames during the menu) completes S3&K as Sonic alone, Tails alone, and Knuckles alone.
I would like to see that too. But one problem would be that you would have to split the screen into three parts for the video.
The boss in Lava Reef Act 2 also won't be a big problem with a flame shield, I guess. I'm not sure if I can keep the quality, I'll just have to try it. But it will defenitely not attract ladies, they'll think I'm a poor freak with no life (which I am ;D).
moozooh wrote:
If you're so weak against polite and rational criticism, I don't see you succeeding with any projects on this site, because everything everyone says may be interpreted as a sign saying to stop doing anything and "go back to your hole".
Haha, you're absolutely right with that. I always interpret things like that. I'm sorry. I sadly don't have any self confidence at all. :/
And just by saying that I proof my point. :D
Thanks, I'll try to continue the run. And I won't redo Act2 in Sonic1, is that OK?
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
Thats probably a tough question for a run like this. If you gain more frames in Sonic 1 than you lose in the other games using the new route compared to the old route, I would suggest you use the new route. Experiment. :)
All depends on what goal you pick:
1) Complete all games together as fast as possible (longest one finishes quick, shorter ones could be faster, times are generally unbalanced.)
2) Complete all games individually as fast as possible with the same input (they all finish as fast as possible, finishing times are mostly balanced.)
I get the feeling what I just said makes no sense at all. Hopefully someone can comprehend some of it.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Kind of Like what Upthorn said eariler, the Labarinth zones in S1 is probally enough to cause you major headaces, the other problem is that you're not spindashing when it might help speed up 3 games as opposed to one. The only game combination I can possibly envisioning working is S2+S3, but even thats unlikely given the precision either one of them have.
I set my aims somewhat like this:
1. I don't want to get hit. Playing 4 games simultaneously and taking damage in all four of them, doesn't sound great. I also want to avoid significant slow downs, visible to the average viewer.
2. I want to keep them in sync a lot. It looks very bad if they are not.
3. Precision. Things that the average viewer won't notice.
4. Keeping the rerecord count down. The run won't get finished at all if I want everything to be perfect.
Btw, you may not have noticed it, but I get exactly 100 rings in Sonic&Knuckles after collecting the ring box at the boss, I'm so cool. >_>
AKA is another experienced runner who sees major problems, hm... Maybe I'm too optimistic about those problems I'll have later on. It's strange because usually I'm very pessimistic. Maybe you can call that dumbness, haha. But I should stop kidding around here. >_>
Marble Zone isn't too far from now anyways. I'll have the first big problems there.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
Just a few comments.
Kuwaga wrote:
I want to keep them in sync a lot. It looks very bad if they are not.
What exactly do you mean by them in sync? Like previously mentioned, the games have different lengths. I'm pretty sure one is going to be completed before the others. Do you mean syncing so all the bosses are fought at the same time, or syncing so that they all complete the game close to the same time?
Kuwaga wrote:
Keeping the rerecord count down. The run won't get finished at all if I want everything to be perfect.
On the other hand, if you don't spend enough time redoing certain areas they may leave alot to be desired in terms of speed. Take your time.
Kuwaga wrote:
AKA is another experienced runner that sees major problems, hm... Maybe I'm too optimistic about those problems I'll have later on.
I'm not a fan of "Why try if I might fail?" thinking. I say you should have a go, face the problem and formulate a solution.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
I guess by keeping them in sync he means doing the same actions in all games, which is certainly a nice thing to do (unless that means not using spindash in every Sonic except the first).
Also, could anyone rehost the video on some other free webspace? I can't use Rapidshare due to the specifics of my LAN.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Like I said before, stuff like having them jump at the same time. 2 Sonics are in the air, one will land earlier. I can jump with the one who lands earlier to save time, but I won't because I know it will look worse than having them jump at the same time.
I just had a great idea, I guess. If I need to stand still in one game, I can try to let Sonic duck in that game while I keep running in the others, if I can get into that situation. I can also charge a spin dash and do that straight in the air jump (jumping at the earliest frame after releasing the spin dash) and stay at the same place. But this won't work in Sonic1. :/
Or I can duck with all four, charge a spin dash with everyone except Sonic1, he'll jump straight into the air, make him land and release the dash with the others.
There's lots of possibilities, but it sure won't be easy.
I didn't want to use "They call me Sonic", would that have been a better choice? XD
I used this Engrish song because it's very energetic and the word "jump" comes up a lot. But it doesn't sound too good in that audio quality.
Well, that was rather interesting (except that a bit too choppy in 20 FPS). I really like the fact that all the runs sync pretty well both visually and time-wise.
Also, "Engrish song"? :D
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Yes, Engrish. Somebody set up us the bomb.
The lyrics go like this:
"Get up! Get up! The time was filled. We are psycho-pathic of a killing sound.
Build up! Build up! In communities. Pushing back the borders of your communication.
Jump up because you know we're live buzz. Just watch me now, our attack feeling.
Any time, we come, we give shock and we sting. Blowing up! Cracking up! Changing your pitch up.
Jump up! Your mind. Jump up! Your mind.
Blabla."
I think it's really funny. :D
But it's also off topic. :(
