Joined: 11/9/2008
Posts: 108
Location: New Orleans, LA U.S.A.
I have had an idea for a minute now because I love watching RPG speed runs but am often slightly troubled while watching them, especially concerning games that I haven't played since childhood.
My idea is this: Taking the time to slow down the text in a recording of an RPG TAS in order to make the storyline comprehendible.
I know what you are thinking, "What!? Make RPG movies even longer!??", but I believe that this would add to the overall enjoyment of the movie (and isn' that what this is really about).
I am not asking anyone to go through the rigorous process of slowing down the movie for a second for every box of text, I would take it upon myself to work slowly but surely (for at least a few of my favorites) if there is sufficient demand.
I would select RPGs to edit from a pool of movies that could be voted on or something less formal even like this thread perhaps? My goal would be to encourage others to create (and enjoy!) these specialized files, and perhaps the editors of this site could develop a method for compiling RPG movies with the appropriate amount of time to read text (which, however complex, would probably be a lot simpler than my proposed plan).
So, what do people think? Has this idea been brought up before, had no luck searching, but if so please move this post and direct me there.
Thanks!
PS some ideas for some runs I would be into doing
chrono trigger
ff3
Lufia 2
Phantasy Star 4
Shining Force II (once it's published ;) *EDIT* this one is actually fine
ff7 (once its made haha)
but of course my main hope is that RPGs i'm not familiar with will get done and I can finally enjoy them in all their broken glory!
An admirable idea, though we'd have to be careful in how we go about this. It wouldn't be as simple as changing the input to give people time to read the text--that can actually affect luck manipulation. Or at least in Lufia and the Fortress of Doom it can because it modifies the RNG. TASers might already have carefully set wait times for messages in order to best set the RNG.
I suppose we might be able to write game-specific lua scripts that detect when text is being displayed, then play back the movie in slow motion until the end of the text is reached. Or in the case of especially fast text outright pause the game for a few seconds.
I know what you mean, djchilxxn. I have the same problem, not really understanding the story. Luckily I have not had the time nor attention span to sit down and watch an RPG run for a while.
You could always go onto gamefaqs and see if there is a list of in-game text for the particular game. I know some of the more popular games have had scrips written for them. Ghetto and unappealing, but the easiest way to get what you are looking for.
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I agree with what zidanax said last, that pausing the game is probably the best way to go. That way you can take all the time you need to read each text box, and then just press the pause button to continue watching. I've been working on doing a lua script like this for my story book TASes, but I'm not finished with it.
Best way to get the story is to play the game, imo. I don't think we need to accommodate fans of the game who want to recapture the story. In many RPG TAS you can follow the story as it goes simply by reading as the speedrun progresses; of course, it does go a little faster than normal in many cases but there is a slowdown feature in most emulators if you can't read that fast.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
My suggestions: watch the movie via emulator and pause when you want to read, or slowing it down to ~25%;
Or
play the game.
Making separate encodes or modified input files to slow things down just isn't worth it.
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
I see no reason to slow down a good TAS.
If you wanted the story you'd play the game itself.
Or in the case of an RPG based on a movie, watch the movie (Even if the said RPG is actually more accurate to the book then the movie).
Joined: 11/9/2008
Posts: 108
Location: New Orleans, LA U.S.A.
Flygon wrote:
I see no reason to slow down a good TAS.
If you wanted the story you'd play the game itself.
Or in the case of an RPG based on a movie, watch the movie (Even if the said RPG is actually more accurate to the book then the movie).
since i have no idea where to get ROMs these days, and don't really try, many of the RPGs on this site are the only access I have to such said games. Also, playing through a game myself doesn't hold a candle to watching a master hack and screw his or her way through a game.
I'm afraid none of those options equate to what i am proposing :)
however if you are playing a game based on a movie based on a book, i suggest reading the book anyways cause it would probably tell you more about than the movie or game (however reading a book will never be like watching a speed run, hence why i'd like to be able to follow the story and watch the speed run
Joined: 11/9/2008
Posts: 108
Location: New Orleans, LA U.S.A.
mmbossman wrote:
My suggestions: watch the movie via emulator and pause when you want to read, or slowing it down to ~25%;
this is probably the best option that involves nearly 0 work, and its a fine option, but just for the sake of my thumb on the ffwd key 90% of the game, I have never tried this option.
Interesting what folks have been saying about luck manipulation, shows i'm not a player heh heh, totally makes sense though and didn't even think about that.
guess that sort of compiled movie would take the player manually putting in those pauses while running the game and still cheating luck, and I would honestly rather players keep running new games and updating old times than spend their time SLOWING DOWN all their old rpgs.
although i still like the idea and would love to see these readable rpg tases, it's looking less and less like its gonna happen.
i should try that 75% thing though, could probably find a speed that allows reading and isn't too agonizingly slow
My 2 cents:
Chrono Trigger is too broken to bother with having any sort of story preservation. I was able to read most of the Lufia 2 TAS while watching it.
The best idea is to create lua scripts to pause just before closing the text box, or possibly set timer delays. Both of these would be pretty easy to implement, but would require a somewhat active viewer, also the music would stop a lot. This script is not hard to write at all if the relevant text box bytes are found.
At a glance putting delays in seems like a good idea, but I don't find it to be a good idea in implementation. Hacking a modified input file to drag at text boxes is a plausible idea, but I do not support having users TAS intentionally waiting at text boxes.
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
TASes are and always will be best viewed by those most familiar with a game; it's not generally within the scope of a TAS for the average viewer to follow precisely what is going on (in my case, I expect quite the opposite - sheer unexpectedness and glitchiness is very entertaining in my books).
I am aware of the concept of longplays, which I think would be more suited to your viewing habits (they're much better suited to people less familiar with the games).
While initially I agreed with the TC, having thought about it, I think sgrunt's right; the audience of a given TAS will generally be familiar with the game anyway. For those who are not, watching a longplay or reading/watching a Let's Play would do them better.
Joined: 11/9/2008
Posts: 108
Location: New Orleans, LA U.S.A.
after careful consideration I think that the majority has a valid point: TAS are a pretty specific categorization and once you remove the blinding speed from them they lose a bit of their luster.
Still glad I posted, though, because I have several options now to deal with my frustration (slowing down, reading scripts, watching longplays) and it was a somewhat stimulating discussion.
kirkq wrote:
The best idea is to create lua scripts to pause just before closing the text box, or possibly set timer delays. Both of these would be pretty easy to implement, but would require a somewhat active viewer, also the music would stop a lot. This script is not hard to write at all if the relevant text box bytes are found.
if somebody wanted to write the script (and implement on some movies) this lua script, I think there was at least one other member that showed some interest / frustration.
kirkq wrote:
Chrono Trigger is too broken to bother with having any sort of story preservation
i was referring to the like 3+ hr movie that is available ;)
In my personal experience playing an RPG through before watching the TAS makes the TAS approximately 1000% more enjoyable, so it's highly recommended, if you have the time. (The same is true for many other games as well, eg. Super Metroid.)
For one, TASes of RPGs I'm familiar with mainly interest me from the standpoint of strategies, sequence breaks, and glitches. But as I have no prior knowledge of an RPG I've never played (and honestly don't have enough time to play through just to watch a good TAS), I have either to postpone it indefinitely, or look for other options that may help me in this respect. "Just play the game" is rarely an option, especially if you aren't keen on pirating games (consider the site's official policy on the matter) and/or using emulators to play them (that, depending on the host and emulated system, may have issues with controls, performance, or emulation quality).
That said, about 1.5 years ago I started playing Lufia 2 because people said it (and its TAS) was awesome. I got bored about halfways.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I don't think that TASing is a good medium for presenting video game stories; I sympathize with the intent but it's even more different a motive than that which separates speed-runs from TAS's. That being said, I'd really like to see more resources for reviewing video game stories.
Personally, I can't stand watching all these let's plays by obnoxious adolescent boys who think they need to play amateur DJ and distract me from both game-play and story with their witless chatter. Recently though I saw a video of all the cut scenes from Ninja Gaiden edited together into a single video with no intervening gameplay and found it very interesting. THAT'S what I'd like to see more of, maybe with boss fights and a few screens of gameplay too, depending on the game.
Then again, things like this tend to make video game plots seem that much more like craziness and nonsense than they ever come off as when you actually play them.
