This topic is for the purpose of discussing #2598: knbnitkr's PSX SaGa Frontier "Blue" in 20:16.35

Watching. I might make an encode. EDIT: That was a good run to be pub'd alongside the lute run. I know nothing about this game, but it looked good so I'll give it a yes

I haven't watched this but I figured I'd ask this question now, since it will be brought up at a future date anyway. If this is found enjoyable by everyone, should it be published alongside the current run? And if so, what happens if another submission using another character is made/submitted? As I understand it, there are 8 available characters for this game. And from what I remember of the published run, at least 15% of it was watching cut-scenes of ships flying, which makes me doubt the need for 8 individual published runs. So where should the line be drawn, and what sort of criteria should we use to favor one character over another?

The reason these were chosen is because you don't need to do a ton of main-quests, as far as I can tell. There is a lot of mandatory animation-watching in the game though, and it would be exaggerated in other characters' scenarios where travel and linear plots increase. I played through the whole game, and the Lute/Blue scenarios are probably the most open-ended ones. It's the options that allow for these to be speedruns in the sense of reaching the shortest scenario's ending ASAP.

I haven't watched this but I figured I'd ask this question now, since it will be brought up at a future date anyway. If this is found enjoyable by everyone, should it be published alongside the current run? And if so, what happens if another submission using another character is made/submitted? As I understand it, there are 8 available characters for this game. And from what I remember of the published run, at least 15% of it was watching cut-scenes of ships flying, which makes me doubt the need for 8 individual published runs. So where should the line be drawn, and what sort of criteria should we use to favor one character over another?

As mention in the Lute thread when it was on WorkB, and also by ugetab, only the characters Blue and Lute are short enough to be TASed with Blue supposedly having some kind of an ending, unlike Lute.

We have other 4 hour RPGs, why wouldn't this one be possible too?

We have other 4 hour RPGs, why wouldn't this one be possible too?

...And from what I remember of the published run, at least 15% of it was watching cut-scenes of ships flying...

Did you really need to ask? =p

Won't be much different than the Resident Evil 3 TAS, which is 33% going through doors.

So where should the line be drawn, and what sort of criteria should we use to favor one character over another?

I feel like this is the kind of question that's often asked and still rarely answered (but then again I'm not an integral part of the community here either). The stance on publishing here isn't exactly clear to me, beyond "we don't want to publish lots of runs of the same game and we don't want to publish runs of games that do not make for very entertaining runs." I wish there was just a section of the site for "showcased" runs on each console. Then everything else could still be published, perhaps under a different heading. I know that involves a lot of bandwidth, time, and drama, though, so maybe it's just a dream. As far as SaGa Frontier specifically goes, I'm a big fan of this game but I agree it's not quite as interesting to watch if you haven't played it. I'd say the line could be drawn here. I mean, it's somewhat arbitrary, yes, because there's no reason beyond "well, these two are better runs for TASing", but there's a general avoidance here of publishing a game for more than two runs unless it's really a mainstay (like Mario games or something). Saying "no more after this" would be in line with what I've observed to be the implied philosophy at work here.

I have to say, this is significantly more entertaining than the Lute run, and really showcases both some interesting route choices and some mad Blouge hax (this shows why he's so ridiculously overpowered quite well). I don't like the lack of information. I know the Youtube video had comments on it, but they were entirely in Japanese. There really needs some submission information, even if it is only to explain the Rune trick, why you chose Space Magic, and why you let Rouge win (all of which make sense to veteran players, but there aren't many of those). It is rather entertaining, though, so I gave it a big yes vote. Now I need to watch the first system data run, since I can't see why it's shorter than this one.

Great stuff again, but I'm still of the opinion that a TAS should be a single movie completing all chapters. Partially because I agree with mmbossman's point here, and partially because it adds an extra bit of strategy; for those who didn't read my post in the last thread, completing chapters gives you better starting stats/techs/equipment in subsequent chapters.

I don't like the lack of information [...] There really needs some submission information

Great stuff again, but I'm still of the opinion that a TAS should be a single movie completing all chapters.

Both excellent suggestions. Can the submitter not speak English well enough to write commentary? :(

completing all chapters [...] adds an extra bit of strategy; completing chapters gives you better starting stats/techs/equipment in subsequent chapters.

This isn't a sufficient description to get a clear idea of what's going on. Basically, there are 4 possibilities for how characters are set up when they are first recruited. Which one to use is determined by the previous game saved to the system data (i.e. the state of the last game to finish). Only Mecs get better equipment, and a lot of characters don't gain any new skills. The stat increases are pretty small - not enough to make a significant difference, particularly over a long story. The increases fall into the following groups: INIT 1: the game started from scratch INIT 2: the previous game finished at BR 1-3 INIT 3: the previous game finished at BR 4-6 INIT 4: the previous game finished at BR 7+ Where BR (battle ranking) increases as fights are fought, and determines how powerful random encounters and bosses are. I highly doubt any individual run would contain enough fights to hit BR 4, so the only time order matters in the slightest is what run to do first. The other problem is that while starting from INIT 2 gives you marginally better stats/skills, it also increases your starting BR, so you to fight more powerful enemies sooner. This wouldn't be that big of a deal if it weren't for the fact that BR also determines the HP multiplier of bosses, so many/most bosses will take more time to kill in every run after the first. It could be my imagination, but if you compare the final boss of this run with the final boss of the System File run, it seems like the final boss takes longer to die in the System File run. This effect would be much more noticeable in runs with many bosses in them. Finally, wanting to require all stories to be run is pretty arbitrary. There are a ton of games where it isn't required that every character be completed. Wanting a "complete" run is somewhat like wanting a fighting game to finish with every character - it doesn't add much and makes the project nigh-impossible to finish. The Blue and Lute runs combined are probably 1/2 the length of the next shortest story, and I wouldn't be shocked if the whole thing passed the 10 hour mark.

I get the impression that unlike most of the Final Fantasy games, this is not a particularly easy-to-understand RPG for people unfamiliar with the game. Arguably, this shouldn't be a big contention point, but it does make me feel uneasy about watching an all-characters run, especially if the stories are as long as other people are saying they are. That being said, I really liked this run. Somehow, the pacing felt better than the Lute run, and the last fight was ended in a very cool fashion. I vote Yes for this to be published along with the Lute run.

Here is an encode: http://www.archive.org/download/KnbnitkrsPsxSagaFrontierblueIn2016.35/sagafrontier-tas-blue-knbnitkr.mp4 http://www.archive.org/download/KnbnitkrsPsxSagaFrontierblueIn2016.35/sagafrontier-tas-blue-knbnitkr.mkv HQ Stream: http://aktan.site90.com/?vid=KnbnitkrsPsxSagaFrontierblueIn2016.35/sagafrontier-tas-blue-knbnitkr_512kb Edit: Added HQ Stream.

Great ~~~ Complete person's TAS may make？

I didn't like this. It is too much running around and mandatory cutscenes (what's with the scrolling credits in the middle of the run?). There are some differences in game play between this and the Lute run, yes, but I maintain that this type of run for the game is just not that interesting. Voting meh.

This run seems to be gathering a lot of dust. I think it also has enough votes for a judge to decide what happens to this movie. I liked it and I think it should be published.

I remember watching this. It was pretty "okay." I'd be happy seeing it published. It seems that everyone who actually knows this game thinks its a good idea to restrict it to runs for Blue and Lute, so if that's what's been the major hold-up it really shouldn't be.

I'm glad that something's finally being done with this. When I read that this was going to be under the "uses death to save time" heading, I actually thought that the very end of the movie was just being misinterpreted, but then I realized that the Blue vs Rouge fight was what was being talked about. It might technically fall under the heading of "dies to save time", but it feels a little different. Winning the fight is (obviously) optional, and is actually considered a perfectly valid strategic decision. Also, it's worth noting that Blue actually loses that fight canonically. I know that a lot of RPGs have bosses which you aren't supposed to beat, but you technically can with massive level grinding. Would runs of these games also get the "uses death to save time" tag?

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [1511] PSX SaGa Frontier "Blue" by knbnitkr in 20:16.35

that I made an account to tell the creator I love you for making this run nostalgia + the greatness of this game I would definitely be interested in seeing a riki speed run, since it's the most difficult! oh and asellus has a beautiful ending and interesting storyline :o I just want to see more because I love this game

I'm planning on encoding this movie for Youtube. First, I partially encoded a file to check the subtitles. Please review. https://mega.nz/file/iWxijLiR#UqWZMqpl0YGpwosRnKYl7m8Kl0bvTVuLu6uTraYzbmU

I don't know the game, but if all the previous scenes are just overworld navigation, this timing looks good for subs.

I adjusted the timing of the subtitles since the event is starting in the scene inside the tent. https://mega.nz/file/HKwhQSpT#ko6vIkheAJeieforLeLCoiu1HRsb3VQeGepALcT12sQ