Posted: 8/15/2010 6:34 PM
Post subject: Commander Keen 1/2/3
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Xarthok
Joined: 4/2/2007
Posts: 68
Location: Latvia
So as my first project I will pick the first 3 games of the series. Mind you I'm a complete newbie in the whole TAS thing so this will probably take me a while and I hope to learn along the way. Besides the games being quite straightforward I already know of a couple tricks, like corner jump boosts (allowing to skip a whole level in Keen 2 for example). There are also some clipping errors near ceilings (at least I know of one in Keen 1). And of course looking forward to manipulating the hell out of Vorticon swarms in Keen 2 and 3 :) What I still need to figure out is in what position exactly the corner jumps are triggered in. I already did non-TAS runs for these games so the routes are pretty clear for me. One more question is about a bug/cheat (feature?) that allows walking through levels on the map thus skipping even those that are supposed to be in the way when holding Shift and Tab. It's listed as a cheat code in most places so should it be not allowed? I avoided it in my non-TAS runs. Anyone have any ideas, feel free to throw them at me, I'll also be on IRC ;)
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Posted: 8/15/2010 8:31 PM
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Mysterypea
Joined: 6/6/2010
Posts: 84
Location: Laurentides, Quebec
If the cheat was intentionally made, you shouldn't use it. Of course, if it's a glitch that wasn't intentional, go ahead. If you're unsure, don't do it.
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Posted: 8/15/2010 10:23 PM
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henke37
Editor
Joined: 3/10/2010
Posts: 899
Location: Sweden
This simply can't be unintentional.
Posted: 8/15/2010 11:21 PM
Post subject: Re: Commander Keen 1/2/3
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Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Xarthok wrote:
One more question is about a bug/cheat (feature?) that allows walking through levels on the map thus skipping even those that are supposed to be in the way when holding Shift and Tab. It's listed as a cheat code in most places so should it be not allowed? I avoided it in my non-TAS runs.
I'm pretty sure that one was in the manual. Edit: Yes it is, it is a "customer cheat".
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 8/15/2010 11:46 PM
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Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
It would lower entertainment value, most importantly. Keen has quirky controls and is easy to kill (and the time penalty for dieing is high), so a good TAS should show off as many levels as possible, imo.
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Posted: 8/16/2010 7:59 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
Hello Xarthok! Some Keen 1-3 runs sounds great, I would watch them. Get started. :) It was too long since I played them to give any meaningful advice, and you seem to know plenty about the game anyway.
Posted: 8/16/2010 8:15 PM
Post subject: Re: Commander Keen 1/2/3
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rhebus
Joined: 2/19/2010
Posts: 248
There's also a glitch where you press one of the F-keys (this site suggests F8) which glitches the world map into random sprites, which changes the world map's appearance AND behaviour. You could go pretty much anywhere on the map, enter a level, and when you return to the map it's unglitched again but with keen in a totally different place. You could even get into the space outside mars with this. Using this glitch could skip all blocking cities. Needless to say i think using this glitch would lower the entertainment value of a run. It seems unlikely that this feature was unintentional, but it also seems not to have any obvious purpose. Pressing F8 within a level generally kills you by replacing almost all blocks with empty space and letting you fall to your death.
Posted: 8/16/2010 11:22 PM
Post subject: Re: Commander Keen 1/2/3
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Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
rhebus wrote:
There's also a glitch where you press one of the F-keys (this site suggests F8) which glitches the world map into random sprites, which changes the world map's appearance AND behaviour. You could go pretty much anywhere on the map, enter a level, and when you return to the map it's unglitched again but with keen in a totally different place. You could even get into the space outside mars with this.
I'm pretty sure that's Commander Keen 4-6's debugging mode (and there's more to it than just F8). That debugging mode is not present in 1-3. Apogee's site lists all available game cheat codes and debugging options.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 8/17/2010 8:07 AM
Post subject: Re: Commander Keen 1/2/3
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rhebus
Joined: 2/19/2010
Posts: 248
Here's a reference talking about what I mean. It was removed after version 1.1, so it's a no-go anyway.
Posted: 4/19/2011 12:24 PM
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Phallosvogel
Joined: 1/3/2006
Posts: 334
reviving this thread... so I dont know if you heard about the shoot through the roof bug. basicly its done this way 
Keen's pogo and jump sprites have slightly different hitbox heights; therefore, if Keen jumps until just before he hits a ceiling, then pogoes, he will occasionally shoot right through the ceiling on top of it. This only works for ceilings one tile thick. (Though it can be seen with all other ceilings, Keen just will not go through the second row of tiles.) This is easier with God mode, but is still difficult to do.

Steps to reproduce:

    * Enable God mode
    * Jump somewhere you'll hit the roof
    * Press pogo right before you hit the roof, it helps to be moving forward
As seen here Well as you can see it SHOULD be possible to do without godmode on but I wasnt able to do so. However, with god mode enabled its a piece of cake. Here is a video demonstration of what it looks like Link to video Would be really great if we managed to pull that off
Posted: 4/19/2011 3:08 PM
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NitroGenesis
He/Him
Editor, Experienced player (556)
Joined: 12/24/2009
Posts: 1873
With FrameAdvance this should be, fairly easy to pull of. And it would greatly improve my time. I'll try to see if I can get this working.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
Posted: 4/20/2011 3:18 PM
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Xarthok
Joined: 4/2/2007
Posts: 68
Location: Latvia
That's a nice find, I'm working on a Keen 1 run atm, this should greatly help if it works.
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Posted: 4/20/2011 3:36 PM
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XkyRauh
He/Him
Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California
Phallosvogel wrote:
reviving this thread... so I dont know if you heard about the shoot through the roof bug. basicly its done this way Would be really great if we managed to pull that off
It is easier with God Mode because of the jump cheat that is enabled as a part of God Mode. (In God Mode, if you have the pogo stick out, holding the jump button allows you to fly.) I am doubtful this will be possible without the God Mode cheat, but I look forward to being proven wrong. :)
Posted: 4/20/2011 4:54 PM
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Xarthok
Joined: 4/2/2007
Posts: 68
Location: Latvia
After some testing I really doubt it is possible without god mode.
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Posted: 2/25/2012 6:11 AM
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skychase
He/Him
Joined: 3/25/2007
Posts: 212
Location: Quebec, Canada
Just asking, would it be possible to play Commander Keen 1, 2 and 3 at the same time / with the same input ?
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Posted: 2/25/2012 10:00 PM
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Ilari
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1113)
Joined: 5/1/2010
Posts: 1217
Rookie of 2010 New systems TASer of 2010 New systems TAS of 2010
skychase wrote:
Just asking, would it be possible to play Commander Keen 1, 2 and 3 at the same time / with the same input ?
Well, just about the technical aspects: * There is no support for recording with background input, so making the TAS would need hacked version of the emulator. * There is multi-init support in r11.3 and newer (allowing the resulting movie file to be represented) * The site parser probably could deal with the resulting movie file.
Posted: 2/26/2012 3:36 AM
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XkyRauh
He/Him
Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California
Xarthok wrote:
After some testing I really doubt it is possible without god mode.
This is correct. With God Mode, as long as you have the Pogo active, holding the Jump button floats you into the air. Interestingly enough, it's often faster to do a Pogo jump than a standard Jump. :)
Posted: 2/26/2012 6:37 AM
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franpa
Joined: 2/25/2006
Posts: 407
I can confirm the F8 glitch, used to use it a bit back in the day. Never knew about the customer cheat method to achieve a similar, less buggy effect though.
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Posted: 2/26/2012 7:32 PM
Post subject: Re: Commander Keen 1/2/3
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Radiant
Player (26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
It would be funny to kill none of the four Vorticon Guards in Keen 1, because most players assume that you have to kill all of them to get to your parts. In a TAS it wouldn't be hard to just jump past them.
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Posted: 3/5/2012 7:45 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I know I always liked to make the joystick-guarding one fall off the right edge of the screen, so I wouldn't have to deal with him at all. But that would be interesting to see just how much of a pacifist run you could accomplish of the whole trilogy. Do like the Vorticon Elder says and keep from slaughtering anyone!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude