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Posted: 9/19/2006 2:56 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Hothead Hop Saved 72 frames, mostly from trying to find spots to skip the brown kroc-heads. and tried to smooth things out a little.
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Posted: 9/19/2006 5:18 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Kannon's Klaim 7 frames saved, there is very little room for improvement for this level in general, I shaved off as much time as I could
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Posted: 9/19/2006 5:43 PM
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Tompa
Any
Editor, Expert player (2214)
Joined: 8/15/2005
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Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
NES TAS of 2018 SNES TASer of 2017 SNES TAS of 2017 NES TAS of 2014 GBA TASer of 2011 GBA TAS of 2011 SNES TASer of 2010
This looks really good. I'm not so good at the game so I have no tips I can offer for you, sadly=P. I wish you good luck though!
Posted: 9/20/2006 11:13 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Jungle Jinx (I have no idea how but amazed and not complaining) 224 frames saved.
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Posted: 9/21/2006 1:39 AM
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VANDAL
Experienced player (614)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 612
This WIP and run so far is of really nice quality, so do what you have been doing to keep it up. Whenever I had a question about what you may have been doing it was answered in just seconds. I don't see any improvements as it looks pretty solid (I am very familiar with this game too, I might add).
Posted: 9/21/2006 2:07 AM
(Edited: 9/21/2006 5:12 AM)
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
I forgot to post about this before:
Arne_the_great wrote:
Game crashes and goes very fast up Castle Crush, but I don't think this really can be used. test it yourself
When I played back that movie with debugging on, Snes9x actually crashed. It's an emulator bug; the game is supposed to freeze and stop instead of letting you zoom straight up the castle. It might be possible to do it a certain way to get similar results, but on the current version of Snes9x you cannot be sure that what you are seeing is really what the emulation is supposed to be doing. In case anyone is thinking about trying that trick... [I am saying, don't even try it yet because it probably shouldn't happen.]
Posted: 9/21/2006 4:46 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
I'm loving that I'm not getting negative feedback anymore. On the one hand this topic dries up sometimes when I'm not posting WIPs or no one has anything to say, but I can't remember the last cool feedback so that's always good. If anyone can find out how on earth I save 224 frames, or 3.7 seconds in Jungle Jinx that'd be great, I suspect it's a miscalculation but if it's not that'd be awesome. Wait, I start counting frames in a different spot ok I'll recalculate Dammit I lost 21 frames. I suspect I only lost frames in the bonus, in V7 I managed to hit the dragonfly before the bee got there and in V8 I wait for the bee to get past. arg. I think the rest of the level in V8 is optimal though. But still, that means time for a redo :( good thing I found this out now before I started on Lava Lagoon. Is there any way to copy the input from a certain number of frames? I think I'll just write what I do in V7 for each given frame, but if anyone knows short of a hex editor how to do that it'd be great.
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Posted: 9/21/2006 5:00 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
Are you watching your versions together when making the movie? If you leave the previous one paused in another window and periodically advance it to sync up with your new one being recorded, you can check that you're never losing any frames to it. (And I would keep another window open for comparing with the Any% run wherever it's applicable.)
Posted: 9/21/2006 5:02 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
for the any% it has the best application (or just use backwards switches the whole way up) but for my 102% the only useful thing, is if I complete the level and redo and start+select at the last bonus because once you get stuck as the multicolored rhino you can't get out. I don't even know if getting the target will end that, or even if you can get the target. I also am not the best person at glitches, and I think the backwards switch is more useful, easy to do, just as fast when scaling up the inside of the wall, and doesn't screw with the mechanics of the game/emulator. If you can make a SNES9x version that is capable of tracking the rhino glitch, that'd be cool. is there also a current SNES9x that can scroll properly with Diddy Kong when doing the backwards glitch? (I am so bad at knowing where he is when he's off screen, I know I'll have trouble in the castle levels, except for Topsail trouble but that's different because I don't need further input except left and right once the screen stops scrolling downwards properly in that level.)
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Posted: 9/21/2006 5:12 AM
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spockybiemmichab
Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany
comicalflop wrote:
I have no idea how...
I don't know either, but somehow your previous version didn't look optimized (although I liked it) and this did. Just keep up your awesome work!
Posted: 9/21/2006 5:14 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
comicalflop wrote:
... if I complete the level and redo and start+select at the last bonus because once you get stuck as the multicolored rhino you can't get out ... If you can make a SNES9x version that is capable of tracking the rhino glitch ...
I was only warning you not to do that rhino glitch. I found a way to get much further up the castle with it than in that video, and at some point transform into a zombified Dixie, but if the whole thing relies on an emulator bug then it should not go into the run. Until a later version of the emulator has been released that has the bug fixed, at which point you can see if it's really possible to do without crashing the game.
Posted: 9/21/2006 5:30 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
spockybiemmichab wrote:
comicalflop wrote:
I have no idea how...
I don't know either, but somehow your previous version didn't look optimized (although I liked it) and this did. Just keep up your awesome work!
I'm not sure either. I agree with you V8 looks way more optimized. I'm 85% sure it's purely the bonus. I don't think I'm going to attempt to use the rhino glitch at all... part of the appeal of my run is that 102% you get to see the entire levels, and many parts of levels that you normally would not see in the any% run. using the rhino glitch would be fastest, but A) i don't know if I could to it B) if it's emulator related yeah now doable on the console at all, not as fun and C) I just plain like the backwards switch better, it's a part of the game. And yes I'll be using the backwards glitch to zoom up the walls, but I'll still be playing the levels whereas in Arne's any% I'm sure he's going to abuse going into the walls as much as possible.
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Posted: 9/23/2006 3:58 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
I did some bonus calculations and in fact the bonus in V7 is 35 frames faster. What's scary is when I was first thinking about it I said "well I bet the bonus is faster, but since I lose 21 frames if it's slower by, say, 35 frames or so then in the rest of the level I mathematically saved frames so that's good." I corretly predicted how many frames were lost in the bonus. Creepy. Anyways, so now I know if I improve the bonus then overall V8 will have frames saved. Now for the long process of copying the input in V7 into V8 ooh boy fun Edit: I just now redid the bonus, and saved 30 frames (or 31, it's close I can't tell.) I was able to hit the bee the same way in V7, which looks much nicer because after hitting the dragonfly Dixie becoems invunerable as she flies thru the bee. This means I am currently 9 frames ahead, so I'll post a WIP as soon as I finish the level. and then on to Lava Lagoon!
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Posted: 9/23/2006 4:25 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Jungle Jinx improved 24 frames saved it now looks very optimized and doesn't lose frames in bonus.
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Posted: 9/23/2006 5:42 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Lava Lagoon I'm making a lot of strategic differences. I'm now trying to hit each seal at the first frame possible, and landing in the water in the best position. I figured out how to remove the lag that happens twice in a row just before and during the mid-way barrel. Also I tested and it is faster to not dismount Enguarde in the bonus than it is to, because when you dismount you have forward and, more importantly, a lot of UP momentum which prevents you from swimming down to the coin quickly whereas the sign makes you propel fowards and down, whcih is what I want. WIP coming soon.
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Posted: 9/23/2006 6:12 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Lava Lagoon 19 frames saved 4.083 seconds saved purely from levels so far.
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Posted: 9/24/2006 12:19 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Redhot Ride 96 frames saved
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Posted: 9/24/2006 2:38 AM
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Nibelung
Former player
Joined: 4/13/2006
Posts: 150
Location: Caratinga - MG - Brazil
In Lava Lagoon Bonus, why you don't jump of Enguarde and avoid the lag of him becoming a bunch of bananas? In the start of Redhot Ride you make a monkey change. Wasn't faster do the change glitch on the target in the end of Lava Lagoon? You are doing a great work. Keep going :)
Not more working on: DKC3 105% < Needs modified Nitsuja Snes9x+9, with reset recording.
Posted: 9/24/2006 5:51 AM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
Nibelung wrote:
In Lava Lagoon Bonus, why you don't jump of Enguarde and avoid the lag of him becoming a bunch of bananas? In the start of Redhot Ride you make a monkey change. Wasn't faster do the change glitch on the target in the end of Lava Lagoon? You are doing a great work. Keep going :)
You can't tag exit when you're invincible. But yeah really stop trying to take animals where they don't belong :P
Posted: 9/24/2006 7:13 AM
(Edited: 9/24/2006 3:22 PM)
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
I tested the frames. read my above post- dismounting enguarde at the bonus gives him forward and UP momentum, and the coin is to the right and below. I tested frames- I'm testing frames for everything like Arne suggested- and it is faster to let him pop into bananas than to dismount. This is the only place where I'll let him pop where's it's possible to dismount. I think. you can't dismount sqauwks except in parrot chute panic (sqauwk's shaft, bramble scramble) but the rest you have to switch to another animal, there's no goign around it. and as bkDJ said, as I mentioned a few pages before (last page? can't remember it's late) I've tested doing a goal switch and it's IMPOSSIBLE, because you are invincible. if I skip the DK coin and invincibility I can get it. But you can't skip the invincibility barrel and head backwards to get the DK coin without losing major frames. Trust me I desparately want a goal switch there, but it ain't happening. These were both issues I've answered before, but thanks for checking my current work. Those two are ones I wanted to behave differently- but it turns out it is faster to do it the way it is. Maybe sqauk's shaft tomorrow, I so want to replicate bonus#3 in V7 because that bonus was amazing.
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Posted: 9/24/2006 7:45 AM
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Kroxien
Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 25
Hey comicalflop! I've just recently started watching the WIPS of your latest version. Damn, you are just owning this game! I've looked through your whole run twice and I can't see anything wrong with it. It is obvious that you have spent a lot of hours testing frames, strategies, etc. and you are dedicated to this run, which is fantastic. I hope you can keep up the good work throughout the run and add yet another great movie to this site. Good luck!
Posted: 9/24/2006 3:17 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Thanks a lot, that made my day. I love your enthusiasm for my work. It took me 7 restarts from scratch to get to where I am- to compare with how I started, you should see the .mkv comparison movie bkDJ made (you can find it either on page 18 or 19) of World 1 that I did up to Kreepy Krow from V1 (my first version) and World 1 up to kreepy Krow of V8 (my current version.) The levels are shown side by side, so you can see how bad I was back then and how good I've gotten now. I think that when the movie ends V8 had saved 27 seconds... I'm hoping that the rest of the run will be as optimized as it is now, because quite frankly world 1 looks so good because I've done it 8 times and world 2 I've done 3-4 times. Hopefully it won't be a problem if I keep doing it slowly, testing frames, and redoing certain levels because most every time I replay a level I save frames. College life is both a blessing and a curse for me- sometimes I'll have hours with nothing to do but TAS, and sometimes I am swamped with work/social life. I really don't know how long it will take me to finish this run- the castle levels in world 6 I know will take the most amount of time because of the glitches that Arne and I have to master- but the process of making it is so fun, and I'll be so pleased once it's finally done. I'm curious as to how many in time seconds will be saved compared to the SDA run- I'm guessing by a lot of minutes if not more.
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Posted: 9/25/2006 12:08 AM
(Edited: 9/25/2006 3:08 PM)
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Squawk's Shaft 70 frames saved I was suprised I saved 70 frames- I thought as I was making it that some parts were slower, but apparently not. Smoothed the flying, I found out holding Y does not affect Squawk's Vertical up speed so I don't use it unless I know I need to use eggs or switch to horizontal movement. I got the bonus as close as possible to V7 as I could- it's as fast if not faster, but I'm not going to check. I think the point of getting sqauwk's up to bonus #3 was the biggest time saver, but small gains in frames overall lead to a nice improvement. I was under the impression Mine levels could not be improved (much like Kannon's Klaim, I'm pretty sure that can't be improved ever from this point on.) On to Kleaver's Kiln! and I know the cannonballs can be luck manipulated, but mostly it's for cannonball #1 and 4. I'll start working on it maybe tonight, but most likely tomorrow. (darn all this avatar business, it's just never easy) I found a good frame to enter Kleaver's Kiln (the first one how about that) so I'll start working on it tonight, WIP tomorrow most likely. the two most important cannonballs, #1 and #4 are in the right place so I'll work with this frame.
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Posted: 9/25/2006 6:18 AM
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SpiDeY
Joined: 11/29/2005
Posts: 317
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
comicalflop wrote:
I found out holding Y does not affect Squawk's Vertical up speed so I don't use it unless I know I need to use eggs or switch to horizontal movement.
That is good to know. I'm planning to do a non-tool-assisted speedrun of this game next year, this is a very interesting information. :D Good luck with Kannon, but it shouldn't be that hard since you already found the "good" frame.
Posted: 9/25/2006 3:11 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
In that level since I'm going up pretty much all the time, it's a good idea not to hold Y, but for other levels where A) you have a lot of horizontal movement (bramble scramble) or B) you are Squawk's the animal, which changes the physics of flying since you're not carrying any extra weight. for the rest of the levels with squawks I'm probably going to be holding Y all the time simply for the switching to horizontal speed reason.
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