Post subject: Rockman and Forte: Mirai Kara no Chousen Sha
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
No this is not some kind of remake, it's an all-new RockMan game for the black-and-white WonderSwan. The only things taken from the first RockMan & Forte are the protagonists and the music. It's nothing amazing, but it's something new to try if you're tired of the same old RockMan games. I can't use the new rerecording version of Mednafen yet, but I made some savefiles in the regular version to help anyone test things, so I hope they work for you. http://www.box.net/shared/f3p5y98m85 Just change the name of the save you want to use to whatever your save file is currently called... I think that will work. "R" or "F" means which character was selected, the boss name is which boss you're going to fight (so you have all other bosses' weapons), "full" means you have absolutely every power-up, and "stuff" means you only have items that are activated on the menu. Spike protection was a borderline case there because it is a one-use item, but I consider it an ability enhancer because it will change what happens when you touch a spike, and you can't get rid of it anytime like the rest. So if you want to add to that, I collected 999 bolts in the "stuff" files as well, and the ones with "999" have just the first level beaten with 999 bolts. I saw no point in saving extra bolts before the first level was completed, because I don't think you can access the shop until then anyway. Once again, you play as one of the two characters for the whole game, so we'll have to find out which one is faster. (I'm betting on Rock!) I made lists of the major differences. RockMan: -slides at a height of 2 tiles, letting him slip past some spikes and passages that Forte can't. -can shoot through walls and has a stronger shot than Forte to begin with... -can only fire straight ahead, though. This is mainly only a problem with bosses that hover; the worst is that octopus that you have to bounce shots off hard-hats to hit. -can charge up! The charged shot is 4 times as powerful as the small shot (there is no medium shot in this game), which means it's 8 times as powerful as Forte's starting weapon! -has a wider variety of helpers. Tango can last a long time in an area without pits. Beat is pretty sweet, because you get invincibility, and Beat flies around Rock killing enemies, and you can still shoot and even charge up. -can't reach certain platforms without Rush Coil, which you spend 100 bolts on for just one use. This is necessary for some shortcuts, so this is another way RockMan will lose time compared to Forte. -gets different weapons from some of the bosses than Forte, like a three-way Vulcan from DanganMan and a flamethrower that reminds me of the charge-up shot from Totally Rad. Has anyone ever bothered to use the Doppel Crash? Forte: -can jump once in mid-air, letting him dodge many obstacles and take many shortcuts that RockMan can't. One side-effect is that pushing A on a ladder makes Forte jump off the ladder rather than fall right away. You can even double-jump up through some vertical screen transitions like in Rockman World 1. -can shoot in 7 directions. (Not being able to shoot straight down seems like a way to help the player fire diagonally downward in the air without moving toward the enemy.) -can't shoot through walls until he buys a 300-bolt power-up. -takes twice as many shots to defeat any enemy with his starting gun until he buys an other 300-bolt power-up. This will probably be a killer. -can't charge up, no matter what he buys! -gets 4 shots on screen at once, while RockMan only gets 3. -stands still while shooting on the ground, so you have to jump or stop shooting for a moment to move forward again. -auto-fires when you hold B, but this is useless outside of casual play because you can tap the button faster than Forte auto-fires. -has a pretty useless helper in Gospel; why float around when you can get everywhere in these small screens by double-jumping? Gospel doesn't seem to improve anything else about Forte, just floating. -dashes at about the same speed as RockMan as far as I can tell, but he only goes down to 3 tiles, so he needs Doppler Attack to clear the RockMan-only passages. There appears to be no "dash-jump" physics in this game; jumps are the same speed all the time. -gets better weapons. Forte Vulcan homes in on things, Flame Mixer covers his whole body and doesn't fly away when he changes elevation, and Doppler Attack lets him float anywhere including through walls, impervious to enemies' attacks but dealing major damage back to them. Seriously, Doppler Attack is like some kind of weird debug mode that they decided to leave in the game as a weapon! -has a longer entrance animation (laughing) by a second or two. Times 8 levels, this could really add up. After the Gray Devil, the first four Robot Masters can be fought in any order, then you fight the ClockMen, then CompassMan, then RockMan-Shadow. Interestingly, this setup is quite similar to the Game Gear game, except you get an intro level, and you don't get a weapon from CompassMan because he's mean. Go ahead and post any exploits you find. One thing I noticed is that you can shoot into a screen transition just before your character actually reaches it, and the bullet will continue into the new room and hit things while your character is still waiting for the scrolling to finish. You can even hit a few bosses this way before the battle actually begins, but charged shots don't seem to take away their life. There may also be a trick to jumping just before teleporting so you teleport from the air and maybe save a little time flying up, but I haven't really tested that. One last thing I had on my mind was that AirConMan's level is sideways. This means that on the real system, you would rotate the whole thing ninety degrees and move your hands to a different set of buttons for the duration of the level so that you're playing in an area that's taller than it is wide. Mednafen has enough features that this shouldn't be a problem for TAS, but I think the finished video file would have to be rendered at 244x244, with part of the movie pillarboxed and the rest letterboxed, if I understand correctly. By the way... R-Shadow has a bad memory when it comes to sprites
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Skilled player (1327)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
Bag of Magic Food told me about this game so I'll give this game a try, If mednafen actually opens up for me.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Right now you can only TAS with the linux version.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Okay, is there a Linux emulator for Windows XP that I could run the Wonderswan emulator in?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Okay, is there a Linux emulator for Windows XP that I could run the Wonderswan emulator in?
Use Virtual Box?
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Skilled player (1327)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
adelikat wrote:
Right now you can only TAS with the linux version.
Aww, now I have to wait for the next version!
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Well, you can still practice playing the game normally in the meantime to see if you discover anything interesting.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Skilled player (1327)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
Not really since I cant open up Mednafen!
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
The main branch of mednafen works just fine.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Skilled player (1327)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
Oh wait.... It's a commandline application. Oh boy this is gonna get messy.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
http://code.google.com/p/mednafen-rr/downloads/list New release of mednafen. Windows users can now TAS Wonderswan games. So get going on this project!
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Ah, thanks! I'll give it a try soon. One more thing I remembered about this game is that it doesn't refill your master weapons after beating levels, even the first time beating a level, but it does refill them when you load your saved game. So I guess if you're really hurting for refills, you could save, reset, and load... But let's hope it doesn't come to that.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 63
Heh, I've actually played this previously and planned a bit, too. I think I'll play it again to see what the route was again. Good luck with this project. This game is one of my favorites on WS alongside RockMan.EXE WS, so I would love to see it TASed.
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
MMHP has useful info about this game. It looks like a Forte run should start off with Aircon Man, since the Forte Cyclone is either equal to or more powerful against bosses than any other weapon Forte gets. I just played through the game today as Forte, and the Aircon Man fight isn't that hard even unassisted.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Experienced player (691)
Joined: 11/23/2013
Posts: 2239
Location: Guatemala
Ok guise, so now that there's BizHawk, how about a pro TASer TASes this game? I'm just sayin'.
Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4128)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
WonderSwan TASing has existed for quite a while, even before BizHawk added it about half a year back. It's just that nobody has decided to run this. While it's Mega Man, it's not exactly a popular title.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Editor, Skilled player (1824)
Joined: 8/25/2013
Posts: 1200
Link to video Quick test run. This game isn't bad, but the sound can get irritating.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser
EgixBacon
He/Him
Player (184)
Joined: 4/15/2013
Posts: 331
Location: In the attic
Doesn't sound as bad as Game Boy Mega Man 2. Shudder... Now we just have to hope that Moth or Fractal gets the idea of working on this as well.
FanFiction|Youtube Still on Win7! Take that, Microsoft!
Experienced player (753)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
lol,they 've redone the intro stage music for the snes rockmanforte but now 8bits
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4128)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
So I decided to look into this game recently (good job EgixBacon for calling it over a year in advance, lol) and decided to make a WIP for it. Rockman is almost definitely faster than Forte in this game, if only for the intro boss. Forte is extremely inefficient at boss-killing without special weapons, and the intro boss alone would probably take over a minute. The route I'm taking for the 'robot masters' is Aircon Man > Konro Man > Dangan Man > Komuso Man. The only weapon that's really important is that of Aircon Man (which is broken against most bosses), and Konro Man's weapon can also be useful in other circumstances (such as the Komuso Man miniboss). The fastest RTA I've seen does Dangan Man second to use his weapon for some enemies in Konro Man's stage, but I don't think it'll be worthwhile to use it in a TAS. So the complete route is: Intro Stage > Aircon Man > Konro Man > Dangan Man > Komuso Man > Clock Men > Compas Man > R-Shadow. Link to video User movie #30941730322035645
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Experienced player (691)
Joined: 11/23/2013
Posts: 2239
Location: Guatemala
Is there any way of going through the water currents faster?
Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4128)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Kurabupengin wrote:
Is there any way of going through the water currents faster?
No. That's what they're water currents for. However, sliding through water is equally fast as jumping in the air, and suffers less from pushback when touching the water while jumping, so it's sometimes still the more efficient option (or sometimes tied) by a very slight amount.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
Quick and entertaining, like the other Mega Man TASes. Good luck on the rest!
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4128)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Here's another WIP, with Aircon Man's stage finished: Link to video User movie #31620542753029361 This stage uses the WonderSwan's unique feature to be playable both horizontally and vertically (and is the only stage in this game to use the vertical screen mode). This is a pretty fun and diverse stage with some interesting gimmicks. There's a fair bit of strategy put in almost every room. The boss battle (especially the latter half of it) also took a lot of testing with different strategies. In the end, three charge shots in the final phase of the battle turned out to be most efficient. It turns out that charge shots during boss startup do damage the boss - interestingly, it will actually shorten the entire lifebar when it appears (and does so for every 4 points of damage done), which makes it only look like it doesn't affect the boss lifebar.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4128)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
New WIP, with Konro Man defeated: Link to video User movie #31952988456987387 Barrier Wind (from Aircon Man) is really good, but it's also quite slow and there can only be one on screen at once, which makes it annoying to use in stages. (The few short pauses required sometimes are still faster than switching back and forth to another weapon, though). Konro Man is a typical example of a boss from this game, who like to spend a lot of time being invincible before you're finally allowed to hit them. At least he goes down fairly quickly when he does become vulnerable.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.