Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Is it possible to do repeated wallkicks in a corner? Or is a 90 degree angle too wide?
there are some walls in the game that allow wallkicks at angles below 45° (like one of the shafts in bob-omb battlefield), but generally, no. i believe the game only allows you to wall kick if the angle you hit the wall is bigger than 45°.
keep working on it FODA. I eagerly look forward to it coming out.
So the estimated time for a 16-star run is now in the 15:30s? Wow, it keeps dropping.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Well, there's a warp to the balcony of the house from the top of the maze, but you'd need to find some way to wallkick up there...doesn't look promising.
BoMF: Too wide.
That warp doesn't get you to the top of the house, though. You'll still need the magic carpet to get up there.
Right, which is why I said you'd need to find some way to wallkick to the roof from the base of the house. I wouldn't necessarily say that there is absolutely no way to get up there....it might just be too tricky for the most creative of us :p
I seriously doubt there is, but I'd be amazed if someone figures out a way. The walls are spread too far apart.
AKA wrote:
Aside that while I was working on the TAS, I discovered a weird wall kicking technique, which might be useful in a few places in a 120 run, because instead of giving the normal animation it gives the double jumping animation while still facing the wall, this could be combined with a A+B dive and could speed up many places and make a few things possible like the quick Tall, Tall Mountain star after the slide.
Here the Link I hope this isn't already common knowledge.
?
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
He speaks! :)
Great run so far, FODA. You have my yes vote. Tough question: Out of the 110 stars you have completed, how much unoptimization do you feel exists in the whole run. I know in HMC, you can pound abd not get hurt, which might save a few seconds.
I wholeheartedly believe that barring a different route, you have no more than 20 seconcds of unoptimization. Which is VERY damn impressive for this long of a run.
Well there were a few things we learned much later for the early levels that helped alot with AKA's run. The lobby glitch saves alot of overworld time and AKA had updated strats for some WF stars. Plus there is that underutilized C-up glitch...
If someone would attempt an improvement it should be MUCH easier now that FODA has set the standard.
Anyway it is great that this is so close to submission! Very exciting ^_^
Ohh and as for that warp it goes from the !-block ontop of the maze to the balcony of the big house. Not sure where you'd use it though...
http://www.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~cbright/sm64/courses/course15.html
This signature is much better than its previous version.
AKA: Got a chance to watch the run, great stuff.
FODA: THANK YOU! for finding the way up to the red bob-omb faster than wallkicking the old way. As for the big house in the sky, I'm sure this is too obvious to work, but has anybody tested the cannon? Chances are it doesn't shoot far enough and/or doesn't aim that direction. I liked all the wall kicking while waiting around on the carpet though. Hopefully in the optimized version it will be even more crazy and dangerous.
Tick Tock Clock of course turned out great. If a 70 star TAS is ever made, I think a lot more of those stars than previously considered would have to be used.
That's all. Wow, lots of SM64 finished/finishing around now. Can't wait for the full run, and congrats on being more or less finished with this monstrous project.
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I've been working on it after i posted the WIP. I've made a "final" version 41 seconds faster than that test. I'm at bowser stage now. If someone points out some mistake in Rainbow Ride which i didn't correct, i will consider remaking. But if not, i'm almost done :)
I tried to get the 100 coin star + the level star at the same time, but it froze the controls :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrSyQqTfNOI
I've been working on it after i posted the WIP. I've made a "final" version 41 seconds faster than that test. I'm at bowser stage now. If someone points out some mistake in Rainbow Ride which i didn't correct, i will consider remaking. But if not, i'm almost done :)
Did you at least show off AKA's wall-kicking bug once?
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
I seriously doubt there is, but I'd be amazed if someone figures out a way. The walls are spread too far apart.
AKA wrote:
Aside that while I was working on the TAS, I discovered a weird wall kicking technique, which might be useful in a few places in a 120 run, because instead of giving the normal animation it gives the double jumping animation while still facing the wall, this could be combined with a A+B dive and could speed up many places and make a few things possible like the quick Tall, Tall Mountain star after the slide.
Here the Link I hope this isn't already common knowledge.
?
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I think you've misunderstood what happened on that video. Mario does a double jump and instead of wall kicking (there's no wall kick in there), mario bounces a little. I can't think of anyplace where it could be useful. Mario jumps higher but backwards. And he needs to do it in the corner between the wall and the floor. So, other than for entertainment purposes (and i think this is hardly noticeable), it isn't of much use.
I tried to get the 100 coin star + the level star at the same time, but it froze the controls :)
I wondered if that was possible! I like how even though he can't move mario still blinks.
Clearly the largest potential time saver in any improvement to this run would be finding a way to the top of the big house without the carpet... have no clue though how that would work though.
Still it's great to see this run almost done! I think you posted your test run in early November 2005 so you've been working on this for more than a year... You must be feeling great to be able to almost put this out the door. :)
This signature is much better than its previous version.
This is, in my opinion, one of the best runs on the site. I've been playing Mario 64 for a few years and some of the tricks you used were awesome. I'd say the best star was climbing to the top of Tall, Tall Mountain. When you finish this (hopefully soon), it definitely needs a star.
Try BLJ'ing when the carpet goes in any way vertical or even just a bit, I know you can BLJ the question is, how fast can u BLJ
You should test this FODA
Really great job FODA! I have to admit I didn't expect the run being that good.
I appreciate your job, that's why I joined in with my comments.
Last comments for the last stage! ;)
I know that you may have corrected some minor mistakes (like jumping, rolling etc.) so I don't point them out.
Generally I think you must go along with the spinning platforms and gain speed.
You should test it though, because I am not sure if it is better to long jump right away.
112) Great route. I timed about 30 sec. The route of Curtis is only 27 sec long. Why didn't you use it? The maze is probably better in the final version. The way you get up the platform with the pink bomb-omb is faster in star 113 (you don't walk around that much to get down the slope and gain speed for the walk kick.)
113)Same as above. Timing stops after you get on the carpet, since you can't get any faster to the top of the house. ;)
114)In some cases you overdone it with diving and jumping. The secret with the red coins is to just walk next to them and get them. There is an invisible radius around every coin, keep this in mind (like you did in B2 with the red coin under the moving platform).
115)There MUST be a way to avoid the fire. Jump/dive later/sooner and you'll get it (I guess)
Myles got 15 sec for this star. Your time was about 19/20 sec.
116)Good job on this one. You missed a long jump when you are still on the spinning platform to get to the "caged" one.
Can't you long-jump twice instead of triple jump to the triangles? (I guess not, because the fire seems to be too high)
117)The maze here seemed better, but for some reason not perfect. Why don't you dive when you finish with the wall kicks to the blue coins?
119) Nothing to complain here!
BTW I found a faster way to get the slide star in TTM. It would save like 2-3 seconds. I know you are not going to remake it, but I wanted to say it here.
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Really great job FODA! I have to admit I didn't expect the run being that good.
I appreciate your job, that's why I joined in with my comments.
thanks, they've been very useful!
Generally I think you must go along with the spinning platforms and gain speed.
You should test it though, because I am not sure if it is better to long jump right away.
yea, the physics in the game aren't perfect. some people may not get it, but standing on the plataform IS faster than long jumping, if mario is going the same way the plataform is going.
112) Great route. I timed about 30 sec. The route of Curtis is only 27 sec long. Why didn't you use it? The maze is probably better in the final version. The way you get up the platform with the pink bomb-omb is faster in star 113 (you don't walk around that much to get down the slope and gain speed for the walk kick.)
113)Same as above. Timing stops after you get on the carpet, since you can't get any faster to the top of the house. ;)
i used a different route, instead of triple jumping to the red coin outside of the maze, i go in from below and do some mad wallkicks, it's much faster.
114)In some cases you overdone it with diving and jumping. The secret with the red coins is to just walk next to them and get them. There is an invisible radius around every coin, keep this in mind (like you did in B2 with the red coin under the moving platform).
yea i know, that was probably from the unoptimization. but the final route is basically the same, except that on the last coin i do a backflip+dive and then roll falling on the floor where the star is.
115)There MUST be a way to avoid the fire. Jump/dive later/sooner and you'll get it (I guess)
Myles got 15 sec for this star. Your time was about 19/20 sec.
This time i got to the plataform faster, so it was positioned so i didn't have to use the yellow part of it. so i could jump over the fire.
116)Good job on this one. You missed a long jump when you are still on the spinning platform to get to the "caged" one.
Can't you long-jump twice instead of triple jump to the triangles? (I guess not, because the fire seems to be too high)
i don't know why i did triple jump. on the improved version, it's 2 long jumps.
117)The maze here seemed better, but for some reason not perfect. Why don't you dive when you finish with the wall kicks to the blue coins?
yea, i do that now. i also managed to jump directly to the caged plataform instead of the pole ^^
on that first triple jump that's on every star in this level, when i wall kick the spinning plataform, i've found out later by accident that it's possible to wallkick and come out towards the red maze, instead of the caged plataform (i came towards the caged plataform at all times). This weird behaviour of mario wallkicking the wrong way would be about 1 second faster on every star where i was heading towards the maze right away, so overall it'd be 3 seconds faster just for that. I'm not gonna remake it, but it's here for the record.
This weird behaviour of mario wallkicking the wrong way would be about 1 second faster on every star where i was heading towards the maze right away, so overall it'd be 3 seconds faster just for that. I'm not gonna remake it, but it's here for the record.
OK. Maybe put it in a 'known improvements' section in your submission text? These have been cropping up... I guess alot of the big ones are documented in AKA's run though? Except for the C-up thing.
This signature is much better than its previous version.
In Super Mario 64 DS, it is possible to wallkick off of the same wall multiple times. With perfect timing and good backwards momentum (which is hard to get), you can even gain height by wallkicking up the same wall over and over again. I know this isn't possible in SM64, but I think your best bet is to find something similar if you want to get the Big House star without the carpet.
