Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Thanks a lot, adelikat. :) I'll probably redo this though, since I have some new ideas on what to throw papers at. Also, I'm gonna ride a lot closer to objects and enemies (if you could call them that) to show off a little more... I will also prefer to hit smaller objects with papers instead of larger ones, simply because it's more challenging to do so on console.
I have some stuff to do IRL this weekend, so I'm not sure I'll be able to get a WIP up until around monday, but be patient :) I have already done some planning on how to play Monday, and I'll get this going more seriously after this weekend.
Oh, and since both adelikat and hanzou would prefer if I skip the bonus tracks, I'll do so. I'll just smash into the wall when it starts or something. :) I'll probably do one on the last day though, just to show off. I'll get back to you on this around monday, then!
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Okay, I have the first WIP done. As you'll notice, I often throw 3 papers at a time into the mailboxes. This is because you get 750 points for each one of these, so doing this gives you 2250 points per delivery instead of the normal 750. Perhaps you, the viewer, find this less entertaining than throwing the papers at obstacles, in that case I'll redo Monday and throw papers at trashcans and stuff like that instead.
Two other notes are:
1. It's not possible to get rid of the dog withour throwing a paper at him, that's why I have to waste one paper on this.
2. I really, really tried to throw all of the papers at the end, but I couldn't throw more than 7 out of 10 papers. So I'm left with 3 papers in the end :( But this isn't sloppyness, this is just bad placement of the pile of papers.
All comments are of course welcome on this!
Oh yeah, here's the movie: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/469/Paperboy%20%28U%29.fcm
It looks really good, great job! Would smashing some windows earlier in the run help get rid of those extra papers?
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Thanks Tailz! I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but I'll try to answer this anyway :)
As you can see in the run, the only obstacles I can throw papers at after getting the last ten papers are the 4 windows and that grey rock. The problem is that there can't be more than (I think) 4 papers out at the same time, this makes it impossible to get rid of all 10 in the end. The best thing would be if the pile of papers turned up a little earlier, but I don't know if it's possible to luck-manipulate such a thing.
Maybe all of this didn't make any sense if I missunderstood your question :)
It made perfect sense. I didn't realize the problem was after you got that last batch of papers.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
I think I stated earlier in the thread that it seems the only way to luck manipulate paper placement is based on the frame that you are spawned.
You can also die to effect paper placement.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
True, but I think it would be better if he didn't die.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
OmnipotentEntity wrote
I think I stated earlier in the thread that it seems the only way to luck manipulate paper placement is based on the frame that you are spawned.
Ah yes, you did. I've been playing aroudn with luck manipulation in this game some more, and it seems (I'm not certain, going to check it out some more) that you can affect where the pile of papers turn up by not throwing them away at certain points. For example, I managed to get some papers to turn up a lot later by not throwing any papers at all, but when I replayed that part and threw papers at stuff, the papers turned up sooner. This only happened once though, so I'll check it out some more.
I think I stated earlier in the thread that it seems the only way to luck manipulate paper placement is based on the frame that you are spawned.
Ah yes, you did. I've been playing aroudn with luck manipulation in this game some more, and it seems (I'm not certain, going to check it out some more) that you can affect where the pile of papers turn up by not throwing them away at certain points. For example, I managed to get some papers to turn up a lot later by not throwing any papers at all, but when I replayed that part and threw papers at stuff, the papers turned up sooner. This only happened once though, so I'll check it out some more.
Hmm... I've never ran across that, admittedly I only tested 6 different strategies. (scrolling slower, scrolling screen left and right, different patterns of hits and misses, no throws, deaths, start delay).
Of these only the last two seemed to effect the paper placement. Though I only invested about 100 rerecords into it.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Here are two fcm's to show what I mean. This one is my run so far: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/469/Paperboy%20%28U%29.fcm
As you can see, the first paper refill appears around frame 1800.
Compare that one with this movie: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/471/no_throwing_paperboy.fcm
In that movie I don't throw a single paper, and thus, for some reason, the paper refill appears first around frame 2200, 400 frames later. I have also made a movie that wastes all 10 papers at the beginning of the run, and in that movie the paper refill appears on frame 2200 too, 400 frames later than in the run. So the paper refill around frame 1800 does not appear because I've thrown a few papers.
I'll do some more testing around this, if I'm lucky I could even make that last paper refill appear earlier on Monday, so that I don't end up with 3 unused papers.
EDIT: I forgot, it might be added that these two movies that you can download start at the exact same time from the start menu, so in that aspect they are identical.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Old topic, new bump! :) I've been playing this game quite a lot lately, and I'm thinking about taking up the TAS on it. I've done up to Wednesday so far, that's three levels, and I'm wondering if anyone finds this interesting?
Here's the WIP.
My main goal is perfect delivery as fast as possible, and my secondary goal is maximum score.
Because of the "Maximum score" goal, I throw most of three papers into every mailbox when I can (I get 700 points per paper for this). This is as many as you can throw without loosing speed. As a result, I don't destroy many things in this run, but rather deliver many papers.
So, my questions are, do you think that the "Maximum score" goal is good? Or would you rather see me break more stuff. On Tuesday and Wednesday I break a lot of stuff anyway, because of the Paper refills.
Paper refills can not be manipulated without wasting time, this is why I don't bother to manipulate where they appear. After all, their placement does not affect the time of this run.
I hope some of you finds the WIP fun to watch. :)
I just watched the WIP and I think a mixture of the two, maximizing the score and mischief should be your goal possibly between the in-game days, you know, one day you'll be going for utmost score and the other day you'll do the least bit necessary but destroying as much as possible. Maybe you could make one day where you just weave back and forth the whole time while avoiding everything closely and still get the minimum houses needed but for those who aren't subscribers they should pay the price ultimately. So far it looks fairly interesting and it's difficult to know what everyone would like until it's submitted since only a selected few comment on WIPs while on the finished product you hear quite a bit which constructs for a better run to come. I say just try to variate each in-game day as much as possible and this run should be publish worthy.
Oh! It's so beautiful =) My cousin has/had this game when I was kid. So I almost cried for happines when I was watching this WIP (nah, not really crying just laughing). This have lots of value to me personally and I'll be voting yes if you can complete this run =)
P.S. I didn't remember that this game had that bad collision detection =D
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Thanks for the input guys. :)
After thinking through different strategies, I think I'll go with a "still aim for maximum score, but play each day differently". For example, since all objects except mailboxes give 300 points, one day I could aim just to destroy windows, another day I could just aim for trashcans and graves (or whatever they are). I'd rather avoid changing the "maximum score" goal in the middle of the movie now, because I think that the movie looks pretty good as it is.
And besides how much you score, there are ther things you can change, sucha as, like you said, VANDAL, how close you are yo crash. I'm thinking that one day I could focus on driving mainly on the street (I mean where the cars drive) and the other day I could aim for driving left of the road, among the houses. Maybe it'll be interesting to drive totally lawful one day, just riding the bike on the road, delivering papers...
I'll see if I can do Thursday today... We'll see how it turns out.
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Hmm, I would have like to see more crazy demolishing of stuff. What I worry is that as you get more resubscribers, you will only have enough papers for the mailboxes and not be able to do the fun stuff :(
I enjoyed watching it however.
BTW, is there a time difference between betting a resubscriber and losing subscribers?
Either way, maybe you could do a minimal paper delivery run that maximizes score. So you just keep the one subscriber and go psycho on the rest.
So your goals could be:
1) Minimal successful deliveries (1 per day)
2) Fastest time
3) Max score
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
adelikat wrote:
Hmm, I would have like to see more crazy demolishing of stuff. What I worry is that as you get more resubscribers, you will only have enough papers for the mailboxes and not be able to do the fun stuff :(
I'm not sure, but I think I get more paper refills the mroe subscribers I have. I'm not positive about this, but it seemed like I got more paper refills on Wednesday than on Monday.
adelikat wrote:
BTW, is there a time difference between betting a resubscriber and losing subscribers?
I'm guessing you mean "getting". And I don't think so, I could do some testing to look into the case. If so, it would be a shorter loading time between levels.
adelkat wrote:
Either way, maybe you could do a minimal paper delivery run that maximizes score. So you just keep the one subscriber and go psycho on the rest.
So your goals could be:
1) Minimal successful deliveries (1 per day)
2) Fastest time
3) Max score
Hmm, I'm not sure I totally agree on you on that, if I understand you right... My opinion is that I should aim for "best ending", which is achieved by getting "perfect delivery" every day. Plus, I think that many people want to see a full week of perfect deliverie's, since it's really hard to do on console. I think it's more impressive if I get perfect delivery every day.
However, I am willing to compromise a little. :) As it is right now, I waste about 3 papers/subscriber. Instead, I could just throw 1 paper to every house, still getting a perfect delivery every day, and also have more papers to throw on windows and stuff. How does that sound? This leaves me with the goals:
1. Throw only one paper to every subscrber.
2. Fastest time.
3. Maximum score.
Oh, and thanks for watching. :)
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Randil wrote:
Plus, I think that many people want to see a full week of perfect deliveries, since it's really hard to do on console. I think it's more impressive if I get perfect delivery every day.
%100 agreed, good point. Forget my idea :p
1. Throw only one paper to every subscrber.
2. Fastest time.
3. Maximum score.
I like this a lot better. Though throwing multiple papers to get extra points is a cool trick to show off
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Perhaps the "multiple paper throwing trick" could be shown once or twice throughout the run, just to show the viewer that it's possible? If you're wondering, it's also possible to throw 3 papers into one window, getting 300 points for each one.
I'll redo the run then, with these new goals in mind. I might have a new WIP up tomorrow. :) I'll take a good luck on the current WIP to see what can be done more impressive.
But generally, I'll see if I can wreck a lot more stuff! :D
What if you do two runs? The first one would be the one with the goals listed above, and the second one would be a "Damage run" where you completely trash the neighborhood, only getting enough mailboxes to let you advance to the next level. I haven't watched the WIP yet but I'm sure it's really good. I'll watch it later when I have more time.
Would doing two runs be too much work?
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
What if you do two runs? The first one would be the one with the goals listed above, and the second one would be a "Damage run" where you completely trash the neighborhood, only getting enough mailboxes to let you advance to the next level. I haven't watched the WIP yet but I'm sure it's really good. I'll watch it later when I have more time.
Would doing two runs be too much work?
There are quite a bit of in-game days so there'd be, I think, a place for a lot of ideas throughout the run. So two runs, in my opinion, would be unnecessary because there are so many days and so little you can do but yet still pack this run tight with ideas.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I haven't seen you in a long time, Tailz. It's good to see that you're back. :)
And I agree on what VANDAL answered to your question. And that's what I wanted to bring up with this post....
I've been thinking about various ways to play a level in this game. And I'm thinking more and more about VANDAL's idea, that perhaps I should use different strategies different days. I think that if I use one strategy throughout the whole run, the audience is likely to be bored, at least somewhere around day 5-6, but if I use different strategies every day, I think they'll enjoy watching this a bit more.
I've come up with a few ideas on different playing strategies. Here are my thoughts:
Wrecking day: In honor of "Wreck more stuff"-adelikat. :P On this day, I'll focus on destroying as much stuff as I can (for the non-subscribers of course). Ill throw only one paper to each subscriber.
Daredevil day: On this day, I'll focus on cheating death. I'll just ride as close as I can to different stuff, both objects and persons. I'll use my papers in the same way as in the "Wrecking day", but mainly I'll focus on being really close to things.
Assaulting day:On this day, I'll throw one paper to each subscriber, the rest of the papers I'll use on throwing at people. I won't get any points for this, but maybe it can be entertaing non the less. What do you think?
Window crashing day:What it sounds like. One paper per subscriber, the rest of the papers used for crashing windows.
Lawful day: On this day I'll throw as many papers as I can to my subscribers, and don't destroy anything at all. I was thinking about riding as much as I can on the street, just to be more lawful. I think that a day like this would surprise the viewer, since he probably expects me to destroy things. I'm not so sure about if this could be any entertaining though...
This means that, for example. Monday could be "Wrecking day", Tuesday could be assigned to "Window crashing day", and so on. Perhaps I could use the same strategy for two days.
Is this a good or bad idea? Or do you think I should stick with the goals that me and adelikat were talking about? Let me know what you think about this idea. And of course, if you have any ideas of your own, throw them out here. :)
I think its a good idea to plan each in-game day and with that in mind maybe the first day of the in-game week the paperboy could be a good boy, doing his job without flaw and not riding recklessly (possibly not speeding up at all, after all he's supposed to be a good boy but that may not set well with the spectators).
Then as the in-game days progress you could make him appear more frustrated.
Like the day after his perfect day you could make it look like he accidentally broke some subscribers' windows. Once he breaks the first window you could have him speed up in a panic and accidentally break a couple of more things along the way while still retaining the subscribers (just an idea, probably won't fit well enough because of lack depth).
The more in-game days that would go by the wackier the run could look, you know, showmanship; go out on a high note in the end. The only problem is what would really be the best way to go about it.
One possibility for the last day could be destroying everything and annoying all the people standing around while keeping your subscribers but you might run out of papers.
I like your ideas but maybe you could rearrange which days take place, from the good paperboy (Lawful day) to a worsened paperboy (Wrecking day), just a suggestion. As long as there is variety (as much as this game can offer anyway) and such themed days I think this run will come out very well done.
