Looks good so far. I'm trusting that your spins and backwalks are fully optimized.
I have some doubts about your entry into Grandma's room, though. It appears that you hesitated at the door for half a second, and you walked (instead of Deku-spinning) to her. What gives?
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
I also remembering stating at the begininning that sidehops look much slower, especially when you do them up inclines. Is it in fact faster than spinning up? I really believe that spinning is best to use when making turns and going up that inclines that you use sidehopping for- I noticed a few places where you used sidehops to do this, and it seemed much slower. It's most likely because Deku Link has slow/short jumps, both for backflips and sidehops (that probably also applis to Goron, and from what i remember the Zora sidehopped seemed to be slightly slower as well, though not as bad as Deku/Goron.) with longer pauses between jumps, and that normal Link has the best hopping action.
I also remembering stating at the begininning that sidehops look much slower, especially when you do them up inclines. Is it in fact faster than spinning up? I really believe that spinning is best to use when making turns and going up that inclines that you use sidehopping for- I noticed a few places where you used sidehops to do this, and it seemed much slower. It's most likely because Deku Link has slow/short jumps, both for backflips and sidehops (that probably also applis to Goron, and from what i remember the Zora sidehopped seemed to be slightly slower as well, though not as bad as Deku/Goron.) with longer pauses between jumps, and that normal Link has the best hopping action.
Joined: 8/1/2004
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Location: Seattle, WA
mwl wrote:
I have some doubts about your entry into Grandma's room, though. It appears that you hesitated at the door for half a second, and you walked (instead of Deku-spinning) to her. What gives?
Mayhap the distance from the door to her is too short to make spinning the fastest method of reaching her in time to chat?
It's not -- I did it just fine. It's kind of tricky to aim (since the camera angle is off when you enter the room), and you have to let go of the spin immediately. But it's doable.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
I agree with AKA. I tested and it is slower. You can make it but to do so you have to spin from rest which is slower.
I also remember us having a discussion earlier about most optimal form of movement and sidehops were said to be faster up slopes. I also use sidehops in situations where a spin would take me too far i.e after leaving the stockpot inn after rupees.
Like I said the movie has been done entirely with frame advance and so all spins and backwalks are highly optimised, plus I have experimented with different combinations of degrees to get the best results.
Also, I am happy to redo the entire movie from the stock pot inn to fix that problem because:
1) The movie has to be great (I don't want to spend months working on it for someone to obsolete it five mnutes after submission).
2) It only needs to be fully optimised until the scarecrow dance anyway.
In the current WIP I tried to optimise where I didn't need to (e.g. after the scarecrow) I won't do this when I redo. I'll just deku spin or something.
I have faced 10 desyncs until now and upon redoing i'll probably face 10 more so if I stay simple in those areas this shouldn't take me another two weeks to fix.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
No one is going to obsolete it 5 minutes after submission, or possibly ever until they improve Mupen. You are the only one with the guts and patience to tackle this game. The only way someone could obsolete it was if there were no desynchs and someone EXTREMELY godly at this game were to play it and find many time savers/new glitches. So you have no worries, you're handling the desynchs just fine it seems and your playing this game really well.
There isn't really any new time savers or relisically findable glitches, although Clock Town won't prepare you properly for some of the upcoming stuff. The game is so maxed out that just about every room and area will be played in a completely unintentional way.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Since the physics of the game was changed in MM (for example crouch stabbing, I just found out by looking at SDA that it was removed in MM, I should've looked harder when I awas arguing that it still existed) it couldn't hurt to test it out. Although as helpful as it sounds, are there any levels where you need to go down into something?
Joined: 8/26/2006
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Location: United Kingdom
I'll get a chance to redo tomorrow. To save myself time I will just play normally after the scarecrow dance until entering the clock tower because time doesn't matter.
Does anyone have any strong emotions against me doing this? Would you like to see it optimised nonetheless?
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Not particularly. I'd prefer if sidehops were taken out for making uphill climbs, but you're the author so up to you. If you think a redo for that section is nescessary, go for it.
In fact, I would much rather you not optimize it for a few reasons.
1. Harder on you.
2. Makes absolutely no difference
3. We dont need extra time spent on a part of the game everyone will forget once we finally get through this boring part. I think we can all agree that next WIP sooner is better than next WIP later.
In fact, I would much rather you not optimize it for a few reasons.
1. Harder on you.
2. Makes absolutely no difference
3. We dont need extra time spent on a part of the game everyone will forget once we finally get through this boring part. I think we can all agree that next WIP sooner is better than next WIP later.
Agreed.
There's absolutely no need to frame-optimize the final night; just don't make any noticeable/embarrassing mistakes, such as missing a backflip onto the clock tower ledge.
I hate watching videos, I prefer playing them through the emulator.
Me too but half the people here can't watch it due to desyncs, and apparantly I'm one of thos people now, but assuming I could get it to work, I provide the videos for those who don't want to deal with mupen and like seeking or whatever.
Excellent video Mukki. I only have 2 comments
1) In the very beginning, you stop to realign before jumping the stumps. Is this realignment necessary? (I have this feeling this was answered in the thread, but I can't remember that answer.)
2) IIRC, you can skip the "Don't stop now..." text that Tatl tells you as you enter the tower. Could someone confirm/deny this?
Still, very nice. That stuff with the heart piece was tight.
Now on to the more interesting cycle...
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
Thanks Petrie.
1) It depends on what you mean...I can't start the game and do the stumps in a single backwalk...but I doubt you mean that. I think that you are refering to how Link sways slightly to each side before backwalking. This is what happens if you hold Z and \/99 on the same frame. Originally, i thought that this would be slower when in fact it is faster by a few frames than waiting for Link to properly align himself.
2) I've heard this flying around too, but somone needs to clarify before I get there again. I don't see how it could be skipped (can you skip the loading point in deku form?). I think mwl already had something to say on the matter.
2) I've heard this flying around too, but somone needs to clarify before I get there again. I don't see how it could be skipped (can you skip the loading point in deku form?). I think mwl already had something to say on the matter.
The navi text is very easy to skip, you need to press "A" on the frame of gaining control to do a spin, but I think its possible to walk a frame before spning either its very easy to do with frame advance/savestates.
Is there really a zora flying out of water glitch? I saw a video of that on youtube, but that was just him using a levitate glitch and only recording part of the screen. Is it actually do-able and can you tell me, I would very much like to try.
