Post by Neofix

Posted: 12/19/2006 5:18 AM

Post subject: Batman

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arkiandruski

Reviewer, Active player (277)

Joined: 12/14/2006
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I saw Batman for the Genesis on the list of ideas, so I thought I'd give it a try. Here's a tentative first level http://www.savefile.com/files/349633 I hope gameplay later forces me to change strategy. While this is kind of funny for the first level, I see it getting old fast. Let me know what you think.

My favorite movies

Posted: 12/19/2006 12:43 PM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (968)

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I remember seeing several Batman games for Genesis. Is this one called simply "Batman", or does it have some extra title?

Posted: 12/19/2006 8:01 PM

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Aqfaq

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I think the game is simply Batman. But the movie has 0 rerecords... --- Edit: Oh, if there were macros for Gens, I would show how to do the first level perfectly. It's very laborous with the jumping. Jumping is the fastest way to move, but eventually Batman hits an enemy. To avoid the enemy, you need to walk a few frames somewhere beforehand, to avoid collision. With macros, the continuous jumping would be much easier: jump, jump, jump, jump, hit an enemy, load a savestate, walk 1 frame, jump, jump, jump, jump, hit an enemy, load a savestate, walk 2 frames, jump, jump, jump, jump... Sometimes you'll make 30 jumps only to realize that you should have taken some extra steps to avoid collision. With frame advance, one perfect jump equals 56 keystrokes. With macros, one jump could be reduced into one keystroke.

Posted: 12/19/2006 10:22 PM

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arkiandruski

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I still don't know what exactly counts as a rerecord. This wasn't all done in one go, though. I constantly went back, and even started the level over after I finished to see if I couldn't get it better, so, no. In my mind, it's not 0 rerecords, no matter what the movie says. Actually, when you jump, you pause a few frames beforehand and lose time. However, if you double jump it makes you move faster, but the screen moves as fast as you walk, so eventually you'll hit the right side and not be able to go any farther. Yes, the game is just "Batman." It's the one based off the Tim Burton movie. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

My favorite movies

Posted: 12/20/2006 10:10 AM

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Aqfaq

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arkiandruski wrote:

I still don't know what exactly counts as a rerecord.

Each time you load a savestate while recording, the rerecord count increases.

arkiandruski wrote:

Actually, when you jump, you pause a few frames beforehand and lose time. However, if you double jump it makes you move faster, but the screen moves as fast as you walk, so eventually you'll hit the right side and not be able to go any farther.

You have observed it carefully, that's good. However, if you look more closely, the screen scrolls faster at the moment you jump. You need to jump at the exact time you land your previous jump to boost the screen scrolling momentarily. It's hard to do without frame advance. Do you know how to use frame advance?

Posted: 12/21/2006 6:15 AM

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arkiandruski

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yes, I do. I'll look into that.

My favorite movies

Posted: 12/21/2006 11:05 AM

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Aqfaq

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I wish you luck!

Posted: 12/23/2006 9:53 AM

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arkiandruski

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Okay, I checked it out and it does seem to be a bit faster. You can push the jump button two frames before you land and still do another jump. I also found a little bit of a nifty trick that will save a lot of time. If you don't push down the right arrow when you jump again, the screen scrolls very quick but the animation for Batman stays on the same place in the screen as if it were scrolling normally, which translates into a really long jump. There may be other factors as well, like it has to happen after a double jump. I need to check that. This also means I'll be going through the first level yet again to take advantage of this new trick. If you would like to see what I have now, even though I have another fix on the way, let me know. I'll post it.

My favorite movies

Posted: 12/23/2006 5:37 PM

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Aqfaq

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Sounds good. Try to find the absolutely perfect way to move and keep the speed up. And don't hesitate to use lots of rerecords, you won't regret it. Feel free to post your progress here anytime, I'll try checking it out.

Posted: 12/24/2006 10:51 PM

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Truncated

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I watched through the movie you posted first... it's not badly played, but I don't understand why anyone would put this on the list of ideas. The game really lacks possibilities to anything interesting.

Posted: 12/25/2006 1:00 PM

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arkiandruski

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Alright, here's version 3 http://www.savefile.com/files/364720 ideas for this: jump as high as possible without hitting enemies. Since there is still a pause in the scroll every time you jump, I want to jump as few times as possible. In case you're wondering, I know I can move sooner during the boss. I waited because I needed him to move up enough that I could get behind him.

My favorite movies

Posted: 12/25/2006 3:25 PM

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Aqfaq

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I'm sorry that I can't watch the movie right now, but I'll see it later. You are very brave, this game is not an easy one to record.

arkiandruski wrote:

I want to jump as few times as possible.

Try testing if jumping as many times as possible is actually faster. I have a feeling it may be, because the screen scrolls faster each time you begin a jump, so more jumps means more fast-scrolling, even though there's a small delay. I may be wrong about that. The difference is hard to notice, but you can use the frame counter to compare which jumping strategy is faster. Being inhumanly precise with this kind of detail is what makes tool-assisted speedruns worth watching.

Posted: 12/29/2006 1:26 PM

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Aqfaq

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Wow! Congratulations arkiandruski, your technique is very fast! You managed to maintain the doublejump-speed with the normal jumps. That's a clever trick. However, Neofix's test movie is faster in the beginning, because he was more precise in the menu & options. He also pressed start to make the level introduction text disappear faster.

Posted: 1/5/2007 4:09 PM

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arkiandruski

Reviewer, Active player (277)

Joined: 12/14/2006
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Hmm.. Mashing start every other frame makes the title text disappear faster. I'll be sure to use it. Yeah, I was waiting until I could see the menus to start pushing buttons. I'll need to work on that.

My favorite movies

Posted: 1/21/2007 11:34 PM

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arkiandruski

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Joined: 12/14/2006
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http://www.savefile.com/files/431749 Sorry, it's been a while. Here's levels one and two. I got all the menus on the earliest frame possible, and somehow managed to make the first level a little bit faster again. I also improved the first boss battle a bit. I decided that at the end of the second level Batman would have second thoughts and try to save Jack Napier. See, I'm building a story of anguish for the bat. Also, here's a question. How much interest can a get for this game? Could it possibly be published. Should I try to publish it, move on to something else, or keep going, but use it as a learning experience instead?

My favorite movies

Posted: 1/22/2007 3:38 AM

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IdeaMagnate

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Go for it. The game is fun to watch (after the first level) and the music is great. I'd love to see a submission of it. As for interest, don't worry about it too much. It's usually only the very popular games that get more than the occasional comment. If the game is worth watching and your playing is good, it'll probably be accepted. Be ready to throw the first version away, especially since this is your first tas. Even if you think you know the game, it's likely that some bug or technique will be discovered that will mean redoing part of the game. Don't get frustrated if this happens. Good luck.

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Posted: 1/24/2007 8:00 AM

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arkiandruski

Reviewer, Active player (277)

Joined: 12/14/2006
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Will do. I plan on doing what I can to make it perfect. I want this to be good, and TAS's are kind of fun if a lot of work. http://www.savefile.com/files/437536 Level 1 and 2 haven't changed. I just did a quick run-through of the third level through the sword guy. Some notes on this: This level seems designed to make you wait. The chandeliers fall at the exact wrong time. The platforms are too far apart to just jump up them, and enemies are in just the wrong place. I use a variation on the jump that I've been using throughout this run. It doesn't change the length of the jump, it just changes the speed the screen scrolls. This is used to change Batman's position on the screen, which comes in handy in a few instances. I don't thinks there's any part of level 1 or 2 where this is necessary, though. Those chandeliers are really annoying. They seem to be triggered by a mix of where Batman is and where the screen is. The important thing is they don't start falling until they are on screen, so they are a bit, but not very, manipulatable. Apparently if you jump backwards into a wall, you can land on it. I used this once, but I can think of a few other places where it can save time. This level also features my first attempt at dancing (when I use my grapple hook in the second shaft). I found out how hard it actually is. After going through and making sure everything lined up, I found that when the movie is played from the beginning, it doesn't. Lesson learned, I guess. Areas for improvement: See if I can't fast jump to the first chandelier. What I have now is probably a little bit sloppy. Use wall-jumping ability to cut down waiting time in shafts. Other?

My favorite movies

Posted: 1/24/2007 9:18 AM

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Aqfaq

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Joined: 4/8/2005
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Truncated wrote:

The game really lacks possibilities to anything interesting.

arkiandruski eats those kind of words for breakfast. --- EDIT: Hey, arkiandruski, check these savestates out: http://www.freewebs.com/aqfaq/batmanstates.zip I'm not sure if that route is faster, but it's worth testing. Your wall trick may be very useful later in the game. EDIT-2: You can also squeeze through any wall by jumping backwards very fast. Try jumping every 1/6 frame. Here are some more savestates: http://www.freewebs.com/aqfaq/batmanstates2.zip EDIT-3: I found a huge shortcut in level 2. Here's a demo of it, it's not optimized: http://www.freewebs.com/aqfaq/bshortcut.zip

Posted: 1/24/2007 9:20 PM

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arkiandruski

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Joined: 12/14/2006
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Love that video. Death abuse for the win. The savestates are pretty cool, too. I can tell this is going to be a fun run. Two things: what do you think of my two boss battles, (levels 1 and 3) and do you have any suggestions for making the autoscrolling levels entertaining? EDIT: Just wanted to add that the part you skip was my least favorite part of the level 2 run at the moment.

My favorite movies

Posted: 1/24/2007 9:47 PM

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Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

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The boss battles are really hard to make perfectly. I think you did good job with them. I believe your third boss fight was better than the first, but it's hard to tell really. For the autoscrollers, just try to keep it as interesting as possible. You may want to take damage when destroying the bosses. Maybe kill everyone in the street scene and kill nobody in the sky scene? I don't know. Watch adelikat's Gradius movie for ideas. :) By the way, the shortcut can be done without dying and the grappling hook is not needed there. You can jump straight to the wall (to a position high enough) and make a long jump forward to survive. I did not find any other place to use the trick for shortcut. I have not been able to climb walls upwards, because it seems impossible to make a backwards jump without walking for 1 frame, and walking makes Batman fall from the wall.

Posted: 1/24/2007 11:26 PM

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arkiandruski

Reviewer, Active player (277)

Joined: 12/14/2006
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Is it possible to do it without dying if you don't use the grappling hook? I've been playing around with it a bit, and it seems that I have to choose between the two. If that's so, I'd decide to take the death to save frames. EDIT: I have an idea for the driving level and was wondering if it would seem amatuerish to kill the cars and tanks but not the vans.

My favorite movies

Posted: 1/25/2007 4:17 AM

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Aqfaq

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Joined: 4/8/2005
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Good, use which ever way is the fastest. I think I did survive it without the grappling hook when I jumped high into the wall and then made a frame perfect (double) jump. I may be wrong, so I'd better check it out again. The van plan sounds good, I guess. --- EDIT: Sorry, I was wrong. It seems that you do need the grappling hook to survive the shortcut. I hope that dying is faster though, because it's funnier.

Posted: 1/27/2007 3:25 PM

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arkiandruski

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Joined: 12/14/2006
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I think it will be. That grappling hook takes about fifteen frames to latch on, and then there's wasted time when you jump up because it pulls you a few feet above the platform. Also, with the death I have to do one less jump after I land. http://www.savefile.com/files/445874 Here's my idea for the driving level. I didn't try to make it perfect, just good enough to see what I was thinking. If this works, I'll make it a lot better in the real run. I've also gone back to see if I can't improve the game. I left the first level intact, since I'm pretty sure none of the new tricks I learned would make that level faster. However, I worked a few new strategies on the first boss, and was able to make it forty frames faster. You can see it here. http://www.savefile.com/files/445874 Anything else I can do to improve this before I tackle level 2?

My favorite movies

Posted: 1/27/2007 6:54 PM

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IdeaMagnate

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arkiandruski, do you know about DeHacked's microstorage for hosting movie files?

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