I have to admit, making a n64 tas is much harder since you can't see everything around you and there are so many possible directions. If you get shot in a 2D game you know instantly where it came from, but in a game like goldeneye you don't know if the bullet came from 45 degrees around you, 135 degrees around you, or some other position, making it more difficult to manipulate luck to avoid getting shot.
(This coming from someone who previously only did 2D tases)
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
Interesting idea comicalflop. Of course, I'll help you on your quest as I'm pretty good with the Mupen.
However, in your introduction you imply that desync is caused entirely by the expansion pack. I don't disagree with this, but it is unproven.
Also, you have a large list of ROMs there that isn't really doing anything and you haven't made it clear what is meant to be done. You do say, yes these ROMs will be tested, but elaborate. How thoroughly? Every plugin combination? How many levels?
Also, what information do we provide on the TASability of the ROM? From my own experience I can tell you this; Gex 64: Enter the Gecko, a joy to TAS, no problems whatsoever, can a TAS of this game be completed? Yes. Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask; a living nightmare to TAS, this ROM spews desyncs all over your movie, can a TAS of this game be completed? Yes (probably).
Those are two examples of games that can be TASed, but just saying that they are playable gives a misleading impression of the desync situation etc.
Also, you have a large list of ROMs there that isn't really doing anything and you haven't made it clear what is meant to be done. You do say, yes these ROMs will be tested, but elaborate.
Well, I can suggest an evaluation/description format.
First, we decide the best combination of plugins (all except video). I believe it's not that hard.
Next step: testing the game with that combination + various video plugins.
The format would be:
<Game name> / overall performance rank <flawless/problematic/unTASable> / video plugin #1 works <good/with problems/doesn't work>,… video plugin #n works <good/with problems/doesn't work> / other plugins work <good/with problems/don't work> / tested <fluently/extensively>.
It can be expanded if there is more than one usable input/audio/RSP plugin, and it can be integrated in a table without much effort.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Do you think there should be areas to describe how well each of the plugins and various other features and options render the games?
yes.
Mukki wrote:
Interesting idea comicalflop. Of course, I'll help you on your quest as I'm pretty good with the Mupen.
However, in your introduction you imply that desync is caused entirely by the expansion pack. I don't disagree with this, but it is unproven.
Also, you have a large list of ROMs there that isn't really doing anything and you haven't made it clear what is meant to be done. You do say, yes these ROMs will be tested, but elaborate. How thoroughly? Every plugin combination? How many levels?
Also, what information do we provide on the TASability of the ROM? From my own experience I can tell you this; Gex 64: Enter the Gecko, a joy to TAS, no problems whatsoever, can a TAS of this game be completed? Yes. Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask; a living nightmare to TAS, this ROM spews desyncs all over your movie, can a TAS of this game be completed? Yes (probably).
Those are two examples of games that can be TASed, but just saying that they are playable gives a misleading impression of the desync situation etc.
I'd love help on this quest. it's a lot of ROMs to go through.
for the Exp Pak, I could probably reword it by I do say that Exp Pak games may not desynch, and that non Exp Pak games may desynch. because it is unknown, there's no clear explanation for it, it's just a general trend I've noticed. one of the criteria someone would have in making test runs is make some of it optimal, like menus and certains ections, and see if this causes it to desynch. one of the info for the ROm would be "does this game desynhc?"
The page is not finished, it's why there's just the huge list. I'm going to set up a very large data table, that has criteria: TAS'd? TAS suitable? runs in mupen? WIP/test run? etc. in the data table there's going to be links Here to each game with screenshots, game info, recommended plugins, TASability, links to websites, and more.
test runs should be no more than the first level, with differences pertaining to each game if the need arises. it should be a rough playthough, in order to show off potential with game movement.
the term "playable" is not what I chose. TASable is what I would choose. playable more refers to if it can be played in mupen; TASable is if it would make a good TAS candidate.
comicalflop: The list between sports and the full list is a little opinionated and I forgot to move some. Might be better to just do general categories like "adventure" or "puzzle". I'll start changing it.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I think the genres that are listed on gamespot are the best. and it already lists if a game is of a certain genre, so let's use that.
because I remember downloading cybertiger, cuz it sounded cool, and realizing it's about Tiger Woods. total ripoff.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Gamespot has action, puzzle, adventure, driving, puzzle, RPG, simulation, sports, and strategy as genres. I suppose we could add plat-former to the list. among these we can also make sub categories, like first person shooter, third person shooter, what type of racing (car, bike, boat, plane), etc.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
I'd be happy to help out in any way needed, such as testing certain games with plugins or just giving some basic information on the plugins themselves.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Okay instead of changing all the categories right now (not sure about a lot of games), I'll just divvy them up as I make a page on them. Raiscan, if you want to test a few games that'd be cool.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
Okay. I'll test a dozen or so games using the default gln64 plugin for the following:
1. Graphical/sound glitches.
2. Desyncs. I'll play through a bit of the game a few times with recording on and play it back to see the results. I may also try playing back with different plugins to see the results, who knows.
3. Any other emulation errors that afftect the gameplay.
4. Any minor bugs that should be noted.
I'll make a table of my results and shove it on my hosting. If you would prefer I test something else or test something in a different way, otherwise I will start testing in a couple of hours.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
No, it doesn't. It has a lot of N64-exalting bias which really isn't necessary.
I think you're being a little biased here. But that's just my opinion (ie. bias)
I'm glad you correctly managed to identify the editor's personal opinion in what was written. Now simply add how an information page (as opposed to for example a personal homepage of someone's) on this site should not be filled with subjective opinions, and you should be able to reach a conclusion.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
nfq: JXQ and Fabian are right. the page should be (and now is) non biased. I share the exact same opinion as you and laughing_gas, but the particular web page's goal is to create a list of what is playable and what would make good TAS candidates. it's not an opinion page, but an information page.
more genres:
Tactical shooter (rainbow six)
real time strategy
turn based strategy
car combat
fighting games (A big one I forgot)
combat sims
the other genres (besides the main ones listed here and earlier) that are listed on gamespot are usually rare occurences for one game only.
Okay. I'll test a dozen or so games using the default gln64 plugin for the following:
1. Graphical/sound glitches.
2. Desyncs. I'll play through a bit of the game a few times with recording on and play it back to see the results. I may also try playing back with different plugins to see the results, who knows.
3. Any other emulation errors that afftect the gameplay.
4. Any minor bugs that should be noted.
I'll make a table of my results and shove it on my hosting. If you would prefer I test something else or test something in a different way, otherwise I will start testing in a couple of hours.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
on gamespot, ogre battle is listed as fantasy turn based strategy.
real time strategy is for something like Starcraft 64 or Command and Conquer.
turn based is chess like, like Mario RPG.
combat sim is supposed to be a simulation of actual combat. Rogue Squadron fell under this genre.
L4yer wrote:
OB64 = RPG + strategy but it has items and stuff so I'd go with rpg
Command & Conquer I would say is strategy, don't need to have too many categories.
Rogue Squadron can just be shooter. 1st, 3rd person and just shooters.
it's not an opinion page, but an information page.
ok. it's just that it annoys me a bit when people call wikipedia an information page yet it's totally Biased.
but it has nothing to do with anything so forget it.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
Well I WAS going to use gln64, but it appears my OoT/MM problems with it seems to extend to alot of other games. I'll have to test with another plugin (though which one, I'm not exactly sure.)
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
This was a completely awesome idea to test all N64 games.
day two of ROM hunting, just found the perfect game. lightning fast, 4 player co-op. Dibs!
Raiscan: gln64 works perfectly fine for me. be sure to let me know of any game you test that might work with gln64, if you dont already find the right plugin to use.
