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Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
Er... I'm making an attempt too. Comrade moozooh asked me about which techniques I was using, and mentioned that jump-a little-bit-higher thing and the fall-like-a-rock another-thing. Well, there's one retarded one I've found useful when you're in ball form(but it's so obvious that of course you know it), that is pressing up and then down when you're about to hit the ground, so she won't bounce with me baby bounce bounce bounce.. And how come those WIPs start from savestates? And why is people wanting to hex-edit things to fix re-record count? WHO CARES ABOUT RE-RECORD COUNT? (Truncated doesn't count) EDITED TO FIX SOME TYPOS AND TO ADD THAT THAT COLOR HACK LOOKS QUITE GOOD and that I'm making a, pacifist 0% broken run. Also, I've improved the usage of the select glitch, but I can't explain anything right now
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Ya, we know of the no-bounce-style. Some of Alter's state saves are starting from save states because he's showing certain styles etc. So, are you doing any%?
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Former player
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116
I am finished. Unfortunately I get a desync in the finished spliced version, but I hope I can get rid of that :/ Just some quick info: 206968 frames (finished as early as possible) \ 00:57:29 ingame timer: 0:55 I'm quite satisfied with the run, and hope I can upload the finished file tomorrow. By the way Cardboard, I forgot jumping at the same place I told you to jump before ^^*
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Good job Alter! Looking forward to the submission. So here's my unfinished test run, http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4402/SamusIsHawt.vbm Like I've stated earlier I've done almost zero testing, once a jump is done, it's done, and I haven't bothered to check if there's a faster way. I'll test for the next version, though. This run contains A LOT of obvious errors, especially frames 73000 - 80000 are full of them due to being very tired when playing. - One of the most obvious is me running out of Missiles in Sector 3. This won't happen next time. - All of my Metroid fights are just "one takes", I suppose I can gain a serious amount of time in those fights (Look at the one around 73000). - The Spider Throw could probably have been used a lot more often. - The way I cut through the Sand Seas in the beginning is just amusing to watch. - Getting the High Jump-boots is out of the question. They are WAY off route. Getting the Spring Ball however, is not out of the picture just yet (Since the Metroid Bouncing around frame 89700 didn't work, I think the Spider Ball could have helped a lot there, or maybe not. I dunno, hah). - I could have done a lot more corner cutting, I know, thanks. - A lot less space jumping, a lot more precision jumping. - I really stopped caring around frame 35000 and really just wanted to get through the game to see if my route was okay or not (Hint: It wasn't, therefore the run doesn't finish). Now for individual frames: 4800: I should have grabbed that missile. 5600: I shouldn't have made high jumps. 18000: Alter pointed out that jumping could be a good idea. I agree. 22600 - 22800: This is just embarassing to look at. I know I screwed up here. 35400 - 36400: Missile refill! 57800: I don't need to visit that Restore Point, since I pick up a E-tank later on. 67700: I really don't know if this is faster than going via the ground and later on the wall. Like I said, I barely did any testing. 70100: There's a spike wall, and I'm not using it. Why? I'll be damned if I knew. 93500: Bad extra jump. 100000 and beyond, just screw it.
    I'll be posting WIPs for like each 10'000th frame for my new run, so you really don't have to watch my test run and make comments on it. Save your ammo for my real run instead.
Now with the old run out of the picture, here comes the new run: Here's the deal. For my real run, I'm gonna pick up more Missile Tanks to avoid the happening in the Zeta-sector. herooftheday and I believe that a total of 100 Missiles would be optimal to have before entering the last sector. Also, I only need one E-tank to perform the acid dive, but I strongly believe that 2 are optimal for the entire game. As for the Ice Beam, I haven't decided yet where to pick it up. The first area is out of the picture, since freezing enemies is a bad way of killing them. If the Spider Ball and the Spring Ball together is enough to make a super spider throw, as Alter has been showing in some WIPs, then that's probably reason enough for me to get the Spring Ball. If I however need the High Jump Boots as well, then the Spring Ball would lose a lot of its purpose. Anyone knows if the High Jump Boots affects Spring Ball? I've decided to name the sectors to make it easier to know which one one is reffering to. Sector 1: "First Sector" - The one with the first Metroid Sector 2: "Bomb Sector" - Where I find the Bomb Sector 3: "Varia Sector" - Where Varia Suit is located Sector 4: "Space Jump Sector" - Where I find Space Jump Sector 5: "Acid Dive Sector" - The sector which I reach due to the acid dive Sector 6: "Zeta Sector" - The sector which contains Zeta-Metroids, and the way to this sector Sector 7: "Re-run sector" - The area where the player have to fight one Alpha and one Omega-Metroid Sector 8: "Oh-my-ga sector" - The sector with 3 Omegas Sector 9: "Last sector" - Rest of the game Now I intend to pick up 7 Missile Tanks, 2 E-Tanks, Bomb, Spider Ball, Varia, Space Jump, Ice Beam and MAYBE Spring Ball. As for the Missile Tanks, 3 in the Bomb Sector, 2 in the Varia Sector, 1 in the Space Jump Sector and the last one in the Zeta Sector. The E-Tanks will be picked up in Bomb Sector and Space Jump Sector. As for my route planning...
NOTE: Amount of missiles indicates the least amount. I count each drop as 4 missiles, since I intend to use 1 to get a drop, and each drop contains 5 missiles. 
X01. Get to and kill first Alpha Metroid, leave, kill jumping thing, get missiles, leave First Sector with 29 missiles.
X02. Get Bomb and Missile Tank in Bomb Sector. Missiles at this point: 39 (How is that possible? Hint: It's not)
X03. Get E-Tank, and then Spider Ball. Go kill the next Alpha Metroid. 34 Missiles.
X04. Get back to the entrance of the Bomb Sector. Grab 2 Missile Tanks along the way. Missiles at this point: 54.
X05. Go through first Sand Sea to reach 3 Alpha Metroids. Missiles at this point: 58.
06. Kill the 3 Alpha Metroids. 43 Missiles.
07. Make it back to the entrance of the Bomb Sector. Missiles: 51.
08. Enter Varia Sector and kill first Alpha Metroid. Missiles: 46.
09. Make it past the Dragon Robot, get missiles along the way, amount: 54.
10. Get Missile Tank number 4, Kill Alpha Metroid and get Varia. Missiles: 54.
11. Get to the lower parts of Varia Sector, kill 2 Alphas and 2 Gammas. Missiles: 14.
12. Get back to the Water Area, climb wall, get one missile drop. Missiles: 18.
13. Kill Alpha Metroid behind the bombable block, climb to the second one and kill it as well. Missiles: 8
14. Get Spring Ball. Missiles: 3.
15. Get next Missile Tank. 13 Missiles.
16. Leave Varia Sector, get three missile drops. Missiles: 25.
17. Make it to Space Jump Sector. Get Space Jump. Missiles: 25.
18. Get the E-tank to the right of the Complex. Make your way down, kill Gamma Metroid. Missiles: 15
19. Enter Complex, kill first Gamma, proceed towards the Alpha. Missiles: 5.
20. Pick up Missile Pack, reach and kill Alpha. Missiles: 10.
21. Return and kill the last Gamma inside the Complex. Missiles: 0.
22. Reach Missile Depot near entrance and refill. Missiles: 90
23. Progress through lower regions of Space Jump Sector. Kill 5 Gammas and 1 Alpha. Missiles remaining, 35.
24. Acid Dive! 35 missiles AND 190 Health.
25. Kill Alpha Metroid and restore Health. Missiles: 30.
26. Kill Gamma Metroid, restore missiles. Missiles: 90.
27. Kill stray Gamma Metroid. 80 missiles left.
28. Enter Zeta-sector. Kill the first Gamma, go through/underneath the Complex. Missiles: 70.
29. Kill Zeta Metroid. 50 precious exploding things left.
(29,5. Get Ice Beam, 45 missiles left)*
30. Kill Gamma Metroid. 40 (35) missiles left.
31. Climb the outside of the Complex, reach and kill Gamma Metroid in Sand Sea. 30 (25) missiles left.
32. Drop down the Complex as a Morphball, place a bomb and Spider Ball-attach to the wall to reach the next Zeta Metroid. 30 (25) missiles left.
33. Kill Zeta Metroid, then leave the Complex the same way as you entered, and get to the Depot to refill. Missiles: 90.
34. Reach the last Gamma and exterminate its kind, then get the Missile tank in the screen before the fight. 90 missiles remaining. 
35. Proceed to the last Zeta, kill it. 70 missiles left.
36. Proceed to Re-run Sector. Get a few missile packs. Missiles: 80.
37. Kill Alpha-Metroid, run around area. Missiles: 75.
38. Kill the first Omega. Missiles: 50.
39. Get to Oh-my-ga Sector. Missiles: 50
40. Kill off the last 3 Omegas. Missiles: 0
41. Refill Missiles in Last Sector, and make sure HP stays above 150. Missiles: 100 **
(41,5. Get Ice Beam)*
42. Kill the 8 Infants and enter Queen's Chamber. Missiles: 60
43. Kill Queen (Duh). Missiles: 0
44. Get out.
45. Shoot against the tiny bastard.
46. End game.

* I'll only get one of these Ice Beams.
** If there are enemies enough along the way to Last Sector to restore my Missiles to 100 (Or 70), then that'd be wonderful. We'll see. I never got that far in the test run. 
This run will probably take A LONG time to finish, I spent 2 hours on the first Metroid, and seeing how there are... a lot of Metroids in this game, well, you're seeing where this is going. Any suggestions on which of the Ice Beams to get would be appreciated. Right now, I've killed the first Metroid, and I'm one missile short, but I hope to be able to fix that as I progress in the Bomb Sector. Edit: First 10000: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4409/SamusIsHawtForReal.vbm
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Former player
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116
The planning looks solid, and your first Metroid battle is pretty awesome. I just submitted my run (http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5233), hope you guys enjoy it!
Post subject: Re: Huuuuge post
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Cardboard wrote:
...
02. Get Bomb and Missile Tank in Bomb Sector. Missiles at this point: 39 (How is that possible? Hint: It's not)
....
I just realized that I couldn't do that, since 30 missiles were my maximum before getting to that point, and the door took 5 missiles to open. Heh. I'll lose a few frames later on to make up for this missile-incident, but I can live with that. I'm about 2100 frames away from my next WIP (Just got the Spider Ball, and yes, I did remember to jump out of the room), but those 2100 frames contains a Metroid fight with and escapeable death animation, so it will take time to optimize, I'm afraid. Stay tuned for more updates. I'm a little (Around 3 seconds) ahead of my test run now, but I'll lose that pretty soon, since I'm about to pick up 2 Missile Tanks that I didn't get in my test run (Of course, these will pay off when I reach Varia Sector...) EDIT: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4439/02%20-%2020000II.vbm - More frames.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Doublepost to get some attention. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4467/03%20-%2030000.vbm My first 30'000 frames. I'm about 500 frames ahead of my test run (And I was still trying up until this point in my test run). I'll probably stop with the 10000-frames WIPs after 40000 or 50000 frames and only show WIPs to a handful, so there still will be some surprising effects in it. If anyone want to take part of the non-public WIPs, let me know.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Former player
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116
I watched this yesterday but didn't get to commenting yet. First, looking good, awesome Metroid battles. Some possible improvements: Once or twice you spin jumped instead of glitching (while going to higher ground). Unless I'm overlooking something that slows you down? Towards the end, when you use the spiderthrow on top of the ledge you could go back to normal morphball before hitting the ground and spiderthrow again.
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
I use the spinjump instead of the high jump glitch if Samus triggers the "weeeeeeee high jump"-thing, since the spinjump doesn't keep me airborne for as long time as a high jump-glitched jump, so I land earlier, and can jump earlier. If you mean that I should Spider Throw again around frame 21000, then no, that would be slower. Spider Throwing without the Spring Ball is basically just effective when moving up or down during the Sprider Throw itself.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
Oh... unfortunately it is NOT POSSIBEL to make a 0% pacifist run, because when you reach the (other?) ship, there's a missile recharge thing inside and nothing else happens. I had already predicted that something should be done to activate the ship event, and I thought that the baby metroid was the trigger... but it is something else... Anyways... somebody said that runs made with the original version would desync if played in the hacked DX version, but they work perfectly. Of course, you need to edit the movie file's header, to change it to a gbc movie.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Post subject: Re: Sorry...
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
pirate_sephiroth wrote:
Anyways... somebody said that runs made with the original version would desync if played in the hacked DX version, but they work perfectly. Of course, you need to edit the movie file's header, to change it to a gbc movie.
Could you describe how to do that? I have the hacked ROM as well and wouldn't mind re-watching the movie using it...
Post subject: Re: Sorry...
JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
pirate_sephiroth wrote:
somebody said that runs made with the original version would desync if played in the hacked DX version, but they work perfectly. Of course, you need to edit the movie file's header, to change it to a gbc movie.
Alter's first submission desynced around the first metroid when I colorized it in the manner you speak of. But if you can provide evidence to show otherwise, that would be great. I would love to watch these runs in color.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
ok, I didn't test it enough, but I'll try it now
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Here is my very last WIP. I have no idea how many % of the game I've played or anything, but I know one thing, enjoy this one for as long as you can, because this run will take a long while to finish (And please, no "I think Cardboard will make it under 0:44" or anything. I hate expectations), since Metroid-battles are pain in the arse to optimize to the point where I'm satisfied. Also had to redo a lot of frames yesterday, since I learned the hard way that you can cornercut as a Morphball. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4546/SamusIsHawtForRealAndBouncy.vbm And worry not, I have enough missiles, despite not following my plan.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
This looks fantastic Cardboard. The springball boss went down really fast. It also looks like the time spent collecting the springball is minimal compared to how much time it is gonna save throughout the run. Keep up the awesome work.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Joined: 6/9/2006
Posts: 614
Location: Mettmann
wow that looked very good, i think cardboard is going to beat the 0:44' mark!!!! damn thats gonna be awesome :D!!
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he'll make it under 00:44! (I'm full of expectations!)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Player (150)
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 688
Location: WA State, USA
Flippin' sweet. However, I think the Ruins 2 route can be improved. It is humanly possible to get the Spring Ball first by damage boosting up the wall. I think being able to use the spider throw earlier could save a decent amount of time.
Nach wrote:
I also used to wake up every morning, open my curtains, and see the twin towers. And then one day, wasn't able to anymore, I'll never forget that.
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
It would probably save time, but getting there without Varia will hurt, and I'll have to pick up another Missile Tank, since the one I'm grabbing is on my way out of the Varia Sector, and this one is one of the few that's not off-route by a lot. Maybe it'd be easier, and better in the 100% run though.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Player (150)
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 688
Location: WA State, USA
I got bored so I decided to make a test run that ends at a random point. I'm not sure if I'll bother to make a full run. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4568/Metroid2ispie.vbm By the time I entered the room with the save point I was 18 frames behind Cardboard and 16 frames behind Alter.
Nach wrote:
I also used to wake up every morning, open my curtains, and see the twin towers. And then one day, wasn't able to anymore, I'll never forget that.
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Latest news: Acid dive done blablablabla. Also Spider Throwing while doing the acid dive is THIIIIIIIIIS much out of the picture. Not that it didn't work or anything, but feel free to try it yourselves to find out. Once again, might work in the 100%, but not in my run.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Former player
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116
Very nice. So you decided to get the Spring Ball after all, should make everything a little more interesting.
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Spring Ball has (Probably) regained everything it cost me, and most importantly, it allows me to do some strategic changes later on which kicks ass, and I preffer to keep them secret to make it a little more impressive to watch when I'm done. Also, it makes Samus bounce, sweet.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
About the color thing, the desync is not caused by lag or anything. When Samus fires the missile at the metroid, it should flinch downwards, but after the color patch, instead, it goes up! Maybe the guy used another version of the rom...?
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Former player
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116
I am slowly working on a third, and hopefully final 100%. This time, as I learned a lot during my last run, I wanted to use Memory Watch to full extent. However, I don't really have a clue how to find out more useful addresses aside from those moozooh pointed out already. I used the cheat search thingie to look for values like remaining Metroids, Health, Missiles etc., but everything the cheat search turned up I could not find in the actual Memory Watch. What am I doing wrong?
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