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Posted: 4/20/2007 11:33 PM
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curtmack
Former player
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 97
Location: Everywhere including nowhere
Hah, love it. You can just imagine the consequences... But anyway, good work on getting this thing finally finished. Definitely looking forward to this.
...?
Posted: 4/21/2007 11:07 PM
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Jweb_Guru
Joined: 9/5/2006
Posts: 61
I am BREATHLESS with excitement! Even though I know you're not quite done the knowledge that it is so tantalizingly close is more than enough. Please release a sample AVI, as I can't get background input to work on my FCEU copies for some reason (probably I just missed an option or something)!
Posted: 4/21/2007 11:28 PM
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Baxter
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
TAS of 2013 SNES TAS of 2013 Speedy TAS of 2007 Innovative TAS of 2007
Jweb Guru wrote:
I am BREATHLESS with excitement! Even though I know you're not quite done the knowledge that it is so tantalizingly close is more than enough. Please release a sample AVI, as I can't get background input to work on my FCEU copies for some reason (probably I just missed an option or something)!
You probably can't find the button because you don't have the right version of FCEU. For background input, you need FCEU 0.98.16, which can be downloaded here. There will be a good description of how to play it on the emulator in the submission text, but I'm sure an AVI will be available pretty soon too after it's submitted. Do note that it will take at least another month before the run will be done (but considering how much is already completed, I think we can consider it as pretty close to the finish :).
http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html
Posted: 4/21/2007 11:38 PM
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DeHackEd
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player
Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833
If you go back a few pages (probably starting on page 5 or later) you can see the AVIs released earlier. The final AVI will probably look similar, except a total of 4 fortresses will be blown up. :)
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:33 AM
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nitsujrehtona
Joined: 3/17/2007
Posts: 97
Location: Berkeley, CA
Out of curiosity, have you played with stereo or surround sound, e.g., having audio output from the games on the right come out of the right speaker? It might just sound awful, but OTOH it might strengthen the impression you're watching four games on four TVs all wired to one controller.
IRC nick: UncombedCoconut
Posted: 4/22/2007 2:52 AM
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Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (40)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1913
Location: Floating Tower
NES is mono. There is no left-right sound. So technically, it would be such if you want it done the way you're thinking (one example, based upon screenshots): MM3: Front-Left MM4: Front-Right MM5: Back-Left MM6: Back-Right I believe AC3 supports surround sound, but I wouldn't know how to mix 4 channels...I can only do 2.
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:59 AM
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DeHackEd
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player
Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833
Slight problem: MP3 doesn't do surround sound. It has mono and a few different stereo encoding schemes. And I don't know if AAC will go into an AVI voluntarily. My current strategy is: MM3 and MM5 on the left side, half volume on right. MM4 & MM6 on the right side, half volume on the left. It's a mix-and-mulch of my dual run's stereo audio mixer and a straight-up sound mixer with the NES mono output being converted to stereo. With clipping protection. Alternatives are welcomed. MP4 format (new quicktime) is one possible option, but I'm not looking forward to it.
Posted: 4/22/2007 5:06 AM
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Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (40)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1913
Location: Floating Tower
I don't know about AAC, but AC3 and AVI go together fine. I just don't know about mixing 4 channels.
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Posted: 4/22/2007 6:15 AM
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juef
He/Him
Player (154)
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 208
Location: Québec, Canada
Apparently, Adobe Audition 1.0 allows mixing and exporting of multichannel sound files... in WMA... I'm gonna look for more info I guess. [EDIT] I just found that the open source software FFmpeg should do it in AC3. Get the latest Windows binary here and the required DLL here, or just Google FFmpeg for the latest source. Also, a quick Google search shows that the syntax for encoding multichannel AC3 files looks like this: 
ffmpeg -i 0.wav -i 1.wav -i 2.wav -i 3.wav -i 4.wav -i 5.wav -acodec ac3 -f ac3 -ac 6 -ab 448 /stuff.ac3
I couldn't get it to work with the WAV files I've tried it with, but since I'm not too good with codecs and stuff, I'd better let someone else figure out the rest...
Posted: 4/22/2007 8:24 AM
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nitsujrehtona
Joined: 3/17/2007
Posts: 97
Location: Berkeley, CA
Thanks for the info. I hadn't noticed the existing stereo effects until Sir VG pointed out the NES itself is mono-only... my ears are dumb. :-/ Having basically no encoding experience I can just link to anecdotal evidence that AAC-in-AVI encoding works well with AVI-Mux GUI for Windows but poorly with mencoder, in terms of compatibility with players. But the former program can fix a movie screwed up by the latter. No idea about ffmpeg, avidemux, or other encoders that natively run under Linux. Sounds like AC3 is a fine option too, but multi-channel vorbis would be a disaster. Anyway, I think I was out of useful stuff to say before I even started this post... good luck, and thanks for encoding!
IRC nick: UncombedCoconut
Posted: 4/22/2007 12:07 PM
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Turambar
Joined: 2/13/2006
Posts: 39
Location: Finland
Shouldn't this site stop using AVI format already? Just switch to Matroska (or MP4 - I prefer Matroska), then you can put any audio and video formats into the encoded movies without any hacks or problems. The problem remaining is that not everyone has a decoder for each codec, but H.264 + AAC in a Matroska file shouldn't be a problem these days. If someone just can't stop using ancient technology, he can encode his own version for himself or use the emulator.
Posted: 4/22/2007 12:12 PM
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DeHackEd
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player
Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833
MP4 and MKV have some encoding issues, plus there's the whole codec pack thing. MKV or OGM have been used on occasion (check the Rad Racer publication) but it's never really stuck. There's also a whole thread somewhere on the forum which basically amounts to someone saying "If you're using H.264, you're supposed to use .mp4" and the final response basically being "No." Or rather I assume it was because the thread's really old and I'm still making AVIs.
Posted: 4/22/2007 1:58 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
DeHackEd wrote:
MP4 and MKV have some encoding issues, plus there's the whole codec pack thing. MKV or OGM have been used on occasion (check the Rad Racer publication) but it's never really stuck.
Hmm, how about two video files then? One is mix&mulch AVI, the other is surround sound MKV (with AAC for 4-ch sound)?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:29 PM
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DeHackEd
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player
Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833
New question: how many of you have a surround-sound system (ie. with 4 speakers or more) hooked up to your computer? And of those of you who do not, how many can deal with 4 channels creatively? Can you select and move channels around so you can hear them individually? Or will the result just end up being like what my mix-and-mulch AVI sounds like? And I am NOT looking forward to making 5 different audio streams (each game individually, and one mixed) in one video, so let's not even bring that up.
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:44 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
How are those questions actually relevant? Making a four-channel soundtrack is at least not harder than mixing four channels into two, and the filesizes will not differ much since AAC allows for higher compression ratio. Basically, what you're saying is "I don't want to do that" in a form of a question. I say it will be at least of no less use for those who can deal with MKV freely.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 4/22/2007 3:54 PM
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DeHackEd
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player
Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833
Obviously you've never actually tried it. In order to get comparable quality to MP3, you need a lot higher bitrate. AAC sounds like s**t at 64 kbit. And that's stereo, how's surround sound going to survive? AAC's probably tuned to be better at higher bitrates and suffers at the low end.
Posted: 4/22/2007 11:16 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Umm… yeah, right. I'm not sure what planet did you get that information from, but let me say it's outdated by about 3 years. So, before I hear another "obviously you've never actually tried it" argument, here's my example: • Nero HE-AAC, ABR (24 kbps); • LAME MP3, -V6 --vbr-new (68 kbps). (Yes, this is Akumajou Densetsu title track.) Still so sure AAC suffers on the low end?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 4/22/2007 11:45 PM
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DeHackEd
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player
Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833
Gentoo says there's no upgrades available for faac. Targetting 64 kbit, Sonic & Knuckles 3 sounded terrible, not to mention it hung entirely. So what did you use?
Posted: 4/23/2007 12:03 AM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
That's because faac sucks terribly, and is being surpassed by everyone: Nero, Apple, Coding Technologies and 3GPP AAC implementations. See also: "Results of Public, Multiformat Listening Test @ 48 kbps (November 2006)" (one of my samples, "eig", ended up being used for that test). I used Nero's encoder, version 1.0.7.0, ABR, 2-pass @ 24 kbps. So far it's only available for Windows, but I seem to remember you had a Windows box around, so you could use it for audio encoding, or think about some another option.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 4/23/2007 1:55 AM
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Raiscan
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
moozooh wrote:
So far it's only available for Windows, but I seem to remember you had a Windows box around, so you could use it for audio encoding, or think about some another option.
Or you could get some other poor soul to do the audio encoding for you.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Posted: 4/23/2007 1:56 AM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Raiscan wrote:
Or you could get some other poor soul to do the audio encoding for you.
That is included in "some another option". :)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 4/26/2007 9:22 AM
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hopper
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 804
Location: Canada
DeHackEd wrote:
New question: how many of you have a surround-sound system (ie. with 4 speakers or more) hooked up to your computer? I have Creative Intrigue 7.1 speakers. It would be nice to finally hear something out of those rear speakers.
TASing or playing back a DOS game? Make sure your files match the archive at RGB Classic Games.
Posted: 4/26/2007 5:55 PM
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OmnipotentEntity
He/Him
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
I have a Logitech 5.1 system hooked up to my computer, but I don't really care about all of that.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 4/26/2007 6:57 PM
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Karetaker
Joined: 5/4/2006
Posts: 13
I'm running Klipsch 4.1's but more importantly than that, I'm just glad to hear that this project is coming along so well. :)
Posted: 4/27/2007 6:27 AM
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scali
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 4
This topic contained enough awesome to actually make me log in and post how awesome it is. Angerfist and baxter, both of you are awesome. Awesome. Awesome awesome. Seriously, I'm looking forward to an avi more than I probably should be. And I don't care how the sound is encoded. =P
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