BLJ-ing to certain points might also work in Whomp's Fortress. Right around the point where the runner just goes all up to beat Whomp, there are a few stairs which could possibly be BLJ-ed. I don't know if it's useful, but it doesn't hurt to experiment.
Which do you think is faster? BLJ-ing to the first Bowser, getting the key, going back, getting the rest of the stars, then going to basement, or is it better to leave him till later?
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
Anyway, 70 star BLJless run in progress.
You are my hero.
Might want to step it up to glitchless but that is obviously up to whomever makes the run.
I really look foreward to it eitherway. I hope it pans out.
Edit:
SpeedRun Lover wrote:
Which do you think is faster? BLJ-ing to the first Bowser, getting the key, going back, getting the rest of the stars, then going to basement, or is it better to leave him till later?
I dont really think it matters, because of the number of times you exit a level to the sun rug in the main lobby. From there you have several levels that you need to go complete, but as long as you start and end on that rug, the order is irrelevent.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
Twelvepack wrote:
Anyway, 70 star BLJless run in progress.
Might want to step it up to glitchless but that is obviously up to whomever makes the run.
I disagree. I think other glitches such as using a bob-omb to get behind chain chomp's gate should be used. This would make it a non-severe glitch run which means that 70 stars will make complete sense :)
Of course, it is up to Mr RZ, I really look forward to progress.
Sounds like an excellent run, but how are you going to plan which 70 stars? My advice = Look at all the stars from Rikku's 120 star run, and redo all the ones with BLJ. Redo all the ones where 100 coins are picked up. Also, divide by 2 for the overall times of those. Then you'll have 135 star time. Then eliminate the 65 slowest.
I think a no-BLJ run could be more interesting, because a 1-star skips all the meat and a 120-star run picks up a few rather pedantic stars, like most of the JRB stars.
Yes, it's definitely gonna be like what AKA said: a normal run, completing the game as fast as possible, but without any BLJs.
As for the planning, I've basically been taking the SDA 70 star route and modifying it a little (for example, taking out some bad choices like Mario Wings to the Sky and possibly eliminating BBH, and replacing them with other fast stars that would work well).
For WIPs, I guess I could put one up every seven stars; that would make an even nine WIPs plus the submission.
New question: for each level, should stars be in order like in Rikku's run, or kind of randomized like in FODA's?
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
It doesnt really matter.
Having them in order was nice only because all of the stars were taken, so it gave a more organized feeling to the run. Because you are going to pick and choose only the better stars, whatever order you do should be fine.
The benifit of doing a run that no one has done before you is that you get to decide on the rules, and set president. You are in the driver's seat on this one, so by and large you can do whatever you think is best.
For WIPs, I guess I could put one up every seven stars; that would make an even six WIPs plus the submission.
New question: for each level, should stars be in order like in Rikku's run, or kind of randomized like in FODA's?
Er, isn't that 9 WIPs?
I think an interesting order would be slowest-to-fastest for each course.
I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea to copy the 70-star on SDA. I'm going to start compiling a timing list of each star in the 120 TAS, ranked from slowest-to-fastest.
Er, isn't that 9 WIPs?
Oops. Tired >_>.
I was gonna mostly use the SDA route since he seems to have chosen most of the best stars, but timing the 120 star TAS stars is a good idea.
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
The rout choice of the SDA run was not too bad, but from his descryption, it was sort of hap hazard.
In a tas setting, I immagine a very different set of stars will be needed.
As somewhat of a purist, I must say that imho the only two runs that should be accepted are the 1 star and 120 star runs (excluding CCCless, which is cool because it has a far-and-away different objective).
To me, a 70 star run of any kind has no meaning. 70 stars is the amount required to beat the game without abusing it. However, since these runs are all TASes already, there is no way to define an abuseless run that still conforms to TAS quality - nor would such a run be desirable to make or watch.
The other reason - which is probably better - is that a speedrun should go for game completion given concrete goals in the fastest time possible. So the fastest time to beat the game involves getting a single star. The fastest time to beat the game to full completion involves getting 120 stars. 70 stars is neither the fastest route nor a full completion.
Trying to define categories for TASes that 'lack abuse' goes against their fundamental nature imho.
As somewhat of a purist, I must say that imho the only two runs that should be accepted are the 1 star and 120 star runs (excluding CCCless, which is cool because it has a far-and-away different objective).
To me, a 70 star run of any kind has no meaning. 70 stars is the amount required to beat the game without abusing it. However, since these runs are all TASes already, there is no way to define an abuseless run that still conforms to TAS quality - nor would such a run be desirable to make or watch.
The other reason - which is probably better - is that a speedrun should go for game completion given concrete goals in the fastest time possible. So the fastest time to beat the game involves getting a single star. The fastest time to beat the game to full completion involves getting 120 stars. 70 stars is neither the fastest route nor a full completion.
Trying to define categories for TASes that 'lack abuse' goes against their fundamental nature imho.
I've already made the defined catagory which is "don't use this specific generic glitch, but use whatever else neccessary to beat the game as quickly as possible".
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
It would not be the first time "glitchless" runs were accepted, especially in games that are totaly broken by some glitch.
see zelda 2, zelda: links awakening, link to the past etc.
this game is getting nearly that broken.
As somewhat of a purist, I must say that imho the only two runs that should be accepted are the 1 star and 120 star runs (excluding CCCless, which is cool because it has a far-and-away different objective).
To me, a 70 star run of any kind has no meaning. 70 stars is the amount required to beat the game without abusing it. However, since these runs are all TASes already, there is no way to define an abuseless run that still conforms to TAS quality - nor would such a run be desirable to make or watch.
The other reason - which is probably better - is that a speedrun should go for game completion given concrete goals in the fastest time possible. So the fastest time to beat the game involves getting a single star. The fastest time to beat the game to full completion involves getting 120 stars. 70 stars is neither the fastest route nor a full completion.
Trying to define categories for TASes that 'lack abuse' goes against their fundamental nature imho.
This is what they would call a "minimum intendedly required" run.
A TAS run of 70 stars should be made (though it doesn't necessarily have to be publicized). It would not only show the best routes, but the runners over at SDA sometimes use the runs published here to plan their own runs (as well as future break previous run records).
Regarding the 120 star run, is it possible that time could be saved by finding a more optimized route in star collection? Or even a more optomized route for getting each star?
Just note that a star you can get coinless should be the last one you collect on each floor of the castle. For example, Peach's Slide works great as a last star for the lobby.
I've already made the defined catagory which is "don't use this specific generic glitch, but use whatever else neccessary to beat the game as quickly as possible".
Even this definition poses problems, for example in CCM when you get the "wall kicks will work" star you have to do a long jump and then pull back, would that count as a BLJ or are you going to revise the definition so only BLJs that increase speed are not allowed?
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
I still think that "Do not go up the infinite staircase until you have 70 stars" would be a better idea.
This is too arbritrary I'm afraid. Besides, I'm not sure about anyone else, but I'm sort of getting tired of seeing the TAS's use the BLJ trick to warp into the different worlds. It's novelty has definately worn off and it doesn't do much for me anymore.
I'm sciencing as fast as I can !
______________________________________
<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
I'm sciencing as fast as I can !
______________________________________
<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
