Post by NrgSpoon

Posted: 10/4/2007 12:09 AM

Post subject: Fastest videogame character?

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Randil

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Inspired by some posts in "The Mask" submission thread, and having thoughts on doing this for a while, I decided to make a thread dedicated to the different speeds of videogame characters! The purpose in this thread is to find the fastest videgame character for each console. With "fastest character", I'm talking about who moves the most pixels per frame when he/she has reached top speed. For example, for the SNES, The Mask is a good bet, because he moves as fast as 16 pixels per frame at times. Supposedly, Samus moves 15 pixels per frame in Super Metroid. Fastest character for the NES is a tricky one... My first vote is on Tiny Toon, where you move 5 pixels per frame when holding down left+right. So, what videogame character are you gonna vote on? I was thinking we could have a small competition for each console. I wonder who the fastest character for GBA is, Sonic in Sonic Advance 1,2 or 3? :P (I doubt there's anyone faster than Sonic, but I could be wrong)... EDIT: It should be pointed out that zipping through walls does not count as "top speed" here, since that is not a "programmed" top speed. But we could have a small tournament there too, if there's any interest in it. :P (though Mega Man 1 will most likely win that fight.)

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Posted: 10/4/2007 12:15 AM
(Edited: 10/6/2007 2:08 PM)

Post subject: added arkanoid paddle

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moozooh

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I'm currently doing a research and will be updating my post with new values. Things that are taken into account: • horizontal speed for sidescrollers; • one vector (any of them) for top-down/isometric scrollers; • highest registered speed value in games that don't have sensible speed caps, attainable without glitching. Things not taken into account: • double-vectoring (vector sums); • vertical speed (largely irrelevant in most games, anyway); • any speeds measured during uncontrollable cutscenes or autoscrollers; • zipping or other forms of object collision abuse that result in a [semi]uncontrollable displacement or acceleration rates; • glitches leading to infinite or otherwise impossible acceleration rates; • theoretical speed limits not attainable in the stages shipped with the game (for games that don't have sensible speed caps); • singular and momentary effects (such as damage-induced position displacements); • speeds lower than 10 px/f. 143 px/f: Arkanoid "ship" (when controlled using an arkanoid paddle) — Arkanoid (NES, 1987) I'm not sure if it's a good choice to include it since it's basically an arbitrary teleportation device, but whatever, let it be here. 32 px/f: Vinnie — Biker Mice From Mars (SNES, 1994) 25 px/f: Sonic — Sonic Advance 2 (GBA, 2002) (This is the highest I've registered, perhaps more is possible) 24 px/f: Knuckles (when gliding) — Sonic 3 & Knuckles (Genesis, 1994) 23 px/f: Sonic (when running off slopes) — Sonic 3 & Knuckles (Genesis, 1994) 22 px/f: Epsilon-Eagle (zero-teleport speed) — Alien Soldier (Genesis, 1995) 20 px/f: Any unicycle — Uniracers (SNES, 1994) 16 px/f: Mask — The Mask (SNES, 1995) Sparkster (when rocket-boosting) — Sparkster (SNES, 1994) 15 px/f: Samus Aran (shinespark at max acceleration) — Super Metroid (SNES, 1994) 11 px/f: Ecco — Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis, 1992) 10 px/f: Sparkster (when rocket-boosting) — Rocket Knight Adventures (Genesis, 1993) The Drasles (with treasure speed scroll) — Legacy of the Wizard (NES, 1987) Correct me if any of this information is wrong. Honorable mentions (characters who were close but didn't make it): Excitebike guy (9.25 px/f); Rambi (DKC2, 8 px/f).

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 10/4/2007 12:16 AM

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JXQ

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Characters from Legacy of the Wizard move faster than Tiny Toons with enough speed scrolls. I think I remember Bisqwit telling me the max speed was half the speed of Mega Man zipping, which would I think be 8 pixels per frame.

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Posted: 10/4/2007 12:16 AM

Post subject: Re: Fastest videogame character?

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DK64_MASTER

Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose

Randil wrote:

EDIT: It should be pointed out that zipping through walls does not count as "top speed" here, since that is not a "programmed" top speed. But we could have a small tournament there too, if there's any interest in it. :P (though Mega Man 1 will most likely win that fight.)

What about mario from super mario world using yoshi to jump through walls with a spring... Or what about Mario's vertical velocity on a spring in general? Or mario in a slanted pipe?

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Posted: 10/4/2007 12:21 AM

Post subject: Re: Fastest videogame character?

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Randil

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DK64_MASTER wrote:

Randil wrote:
EDIT: It should be pointed out that zipping through walls does not count as "top speed" here, since that is not a "programmed" top speed. But we could have a small tournament there too, if there's any interest in it. :P (though Mega Man 1 will most likely win that fight.)
What about mario from super mario world using yoshi to jump through walls with a spring... Or what about Mario's vertical velocity on a spring in general?

Well, it's hard to points out what is a programming error and what is just a trick. I guess the easiest way to determine what counts as a legit top speed is a speed that the programmers who made the game intended you to have. Of course, this is subject of debate, so if you find anything, just post it here for fun. :D

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Posted: 10/4/2007 1:33 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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How fast does the Mario in Super Mario 64 go?

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Posted: 10/4/2007 1:34 AM

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mmbossman

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Bag of Magic Food wrote:

How fast does the Mario in Super Mario 64 go?

With or without BLJing?

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Posted: 10/4/2007 1:36 AM

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moozooh

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Bag of Magic Food wrote:

How fast does the Mario in Super Mario 64 go?

No way to determine since there are no pixels in a 3D-rendered game — only level coordinates, which are pretty much impossible to convert to pixels. Also, I wouldn't count BLJ speeds since it's a glitch.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 10/4/2007 1:46 AM

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nesrocks

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What about battletoads bike? That must win if you're double tap moving to the right during the end of the level.

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Posted: 10/4/2007 1:51 AM

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Phil

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At 1600 cm/sec, the guy in T&F is the fastest really calculable character for NES that I know. Pixels per frame, what's that!!? Something in some people imagination... :P As for Snes, probably some racing game. Let say Top Gear 3000.

Posted: 10/4/2007 2:03 AM

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DK64_MASTER

Joined: 10/24/2005
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What about a tetris block on any "death mode" game type?

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Posted: 10/4/2007 2:10 AM
(Edited: 10/4/2007 2:12 AM)

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Dromiceius

Joined: 10/3/2005
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Question: how fast does Megaman fall? At maximum acceleration, I mean.

Posted: 10/4/2007 2:10 AM

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moozooh

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FODA wrote:

What about battletoads bike? That must win if you're double tap moving to the right during the end of the level.

Isn't that an autoscroller stage? That makes it largely irrelevant in this case.

Phil wrote:

As for Snes, probably some racing game. Let say Top Gear 3000.

Let's rather say F-Zero, with its 1000 km/h cars.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 10/4/2007 3:09 AM

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Halamantariel

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moozooh wrote:

FODA wrote:
What about battletoads bike? That must win if you're double tap moving to the right during the end of the level.
Isn't that an autoscroller stage? That makes it largely irrelevant in this case.
Phil wrote:
As for Snes, probably some racing game. Let say Top Gear 3000.
Let's rather say F-Zero, with its 1000 km/h cars.

Speaking of F-Zero, wouldn't it be possible to measure the car speeds in pixels/frame? Sure, the car stays at the same place, but the level around it moves, and that is measurable. Same goes for all other racing games of the same type.

Posted: 10/4/2007 3:14 AM

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moozooh

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Unless you can undo mode-7 scaling to determine the actual pixel sizes/distances, it's going to be rather hard. :\

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 10/4/2007 4:26 AM
(Edited: 10/4/2007 4:37 AM)

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Chamale

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River City Ransom can get pretty insane with the right powerups. Unupgraded, the trash can trick sends people at around 10p/f. I'll do a test with max upgrades in a minute. EDIT: I just moved someone at 20p/f in RCR, so fast he could go through walls. In theory, I might be able to send someone up to twice as fast. I'll do more tests. The charge attack in Densetsu No Stafy nears 10, but I don't know how to measure precisely. To whoever asked what the out-of-slant-pipe in SMW speed is; around 3-4 PPF. On an unrelated note, what's the fastest speed in pokémon-like RPGs? The snake morph in Animorphs (GBC) goes around 5 PPF, but idk about many games.

Posted: 10/4/2007 4:35 AM
(Edited: 11/1/2007 12:18 PM)

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Comicalflop

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some more mentions: -ECCO -Mischief Makers, when going off a spring (14+ pixels/frame) -Battle of Olympus using left+right -F-Zero X (in light of F-Zero being mentioned, these cars go 3,000 km/h) -Enguarde from DKC3 (seems to go faster than in DKC2) -Gradius full speed powerups -Castlevania: HoD: using whip-launch (I've gotten 17 pixels per frame or higher with Maxim) Now, one more idea I'd like to add is which character has the fastest reaction time (can maneuver throughout obstacles quickly and make many different moves very fast), not just max horizontal speed.

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Posted: 10/4/2007 4:36 AM

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DK64_MASTER

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How fast do you travel by getting hit by a homerun bat (or luigi uppercut or Jigglypuff's rest) in Super Smash Bros at 999% damage?

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Posted: 10/4/2007 4:55 AM

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Chamale

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Again, N64 games can't be measured. In RCR, I got 30 PPF with the trash can trick and maximum upgrades. How fast does L+R send you in Battle of Olympus? I know it's 128 something, but I'm not sure what.

Posted: 10/4/2007 5:00 AM

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upthorn

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Chamale wrote:

Again, N64 games can't be measured.

Actually, it's not that N64 games can't be measured, it's that 3D games can't be measured. Super Smash Bros is mostly 2D, but I'm not sure if it can be directly measured what with the camera zooms.

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Posted: 10/4/2007 8:00 AM

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bkDJ

Joined: 7/26/2006
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upthorn wrote:

Chamale wrote:
Again, N64 games can't be measured.
Actually, it's not that N64 games can't be measured, it's that 3D games can't be measured. Super Smash Bros is mostly 2D, but I'm not sure if it can be directly measured what with the camera zooms.

Well, I suppose someone could capture some gamecube footage of SSBM and see how many p/f a character flies using the bat or whatever at 999% using fixed-camera-mode, so zooms aren't a problem.... except of course different levels have different zoom levels. (One could argue that final destination would be a good place to measure but meh) The only 3D games that can be measured in pixel/frame speeds are ones like Yoshi Story or mischief makers where the camera isn't changing its Z position constantly. How are you measuring frames, anyway? like, pushing the frame advance button, or 1/60th of a second. because if a game has been kept at 1:1 speed and converted to PAL, then it has a faster pixel/frame rating on the (E) rom....

Posted: 10/4/2007 8:53 AM

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Randil

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bkDJ wrote:

How are you measuring frames, anyway? like, pushing the frame advance button, or 1/60th of a second. because if a game has been kept at 1:1 speed and converted to PAL, then it has a faster pixel/frame rating on the (E) rom....

As far as I know, all these speeds are taken from the U ROM or the J ROM, so no PAL speeds here. :) But you're right, some characters move more pixels per frame on PAL, but I think that if there exists a NTSC ROM, the speed should be taken from that version.

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Posted: 10/4/2007 12:51 PM

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Comicalflop

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well, Adelikat has found pixel coordinates in 3D games (Glover, Mario Kart 64, etc.) so it should be possible to find out how many pixels per frame you're going assuming you go along only the X or Y. However, I was guessing that in any 3d-ish game you could use a speedometer, if present to gauge speed. Also, I have found general velocity address (the horizontal velocity of a character in the direction that he is facing) for Majora's Mask, and I know from many games that if there's a speed address, there's also a pixels/frame address, so that should be possible too. More mentions: -Super Monkey Ball/Super Monkey Ball 2 -the GC 3D sonic games -Pilotwings 64, using the gyrocopter and some techniques to reach 2400 km/h speeds

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Posted: 10/4/2007 12:57 PM

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Bisqwit

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The thing about 3D is that the velocity cannot be measured in pixels, as the magnitude of anything resembling "pixels" depends on the camera distance and such. What you are looking for is the distance travelled in the map, but even then it again depends on the projection. If the numbers in the map are multiplied by ten, and camera moved ten times farther, nothing seems to be changed. In 2D games, as long as the camera is kept at constant distance, pixel-measurements are meaningful. If the camera zooms closer and/or farther, then they become meaningless, again.