Goof Troop "no damage" TAS by Randil and mmbossman

This run is 13951 frames (3 min 52.52 sec) faster than the published run and 3620 frames (1 min 0.33 sec) faster than Randil's submitted run.
  • Emulator used: SNES9X v 1.43+ v9
  • Emulator sync settings: "Use WIP1 timing" checked, everything else unchecked.
Goals, in order of priority:
  • Take no damage.
  • Beat the game as fast as possible.
  • Focus on entertainment value when it doesn't break the first two goals.
Other info:
  • Manipulates luck.

About the game:

Goof Troop is a hilarious game by Capcom. It's has a lot of thing in common with Zelda, such as the top view, your ability to pick up pots and throw them at enemies, puzzle rooms, etc.
In this run, Goofy and Max teams up, just like in Frenom's run. This makes the run both a lot more entertaining to watch, and it also makes it a whole lot faster. Player 1 controls Goofy, and Player 2 controls Max.
There are 5 levels in this game, and each level ends with a boss. The goal on each level is simply to reach the boss and kill him/them. This sounds easier than it is, there are usually locked gates in your way that you have to unlock to proceed, which means you have to go looking for the right key.
You can find cherries, bananas and red diamonds here and there in the game. Cherries give you one heart each, bananas give you 2 hearts and red diamonds give you 1 extra life. Every 7 hearts give you an extra life, but each time you get hit, you will lose all your current hearts. If you get hit when you have 0 hearts, you will die.
There are some differences between Goofy and Max:
  • Max moves faster than Goofy when they're not carrying anything.
  • When carrying something, Max is slowed down quite a lot, while Goofy isn't slowed down at all. This means that when thy're carrying something, Goofy moves faster than Max.
  • Goofy picks up pots slightly faster than Max.
  • Goofy deals 5 damage with each thrown pot, while Max deals 4 damage.
These differences make Goofy the strong but slow character, and Max the the fast but weak one.
There are items that you can equip yourself with in the game:
  • Green hook gun: This item has three uses. First of all, you can hit enemies with the hook, which will knock them back and paralyze them for a few seconds. This can be used to knock enemies into the water, as you'll see in level 1. The second use is to pick up pots. The third use is to shoot it over a hole in the ground and attach it to a small metal hook. This is first used in level 2.
  • Bell: When your ring the bell, you will lure all enemies towards you. This is very useful when you want to manipulate how enemies move.
  • Candle: Not used in this run. Candles light up dark rooms, but since this is a tool-assisted run, this item is obviously unnecessary.
  • Keys: You have to be equiped with the right key in order to open a locked door.

Tricks and strategies:

We use completely new strategies in a lot of rooms, compared to Frenom's run. They are too many to comment on each and every one, but we will give some general comments on the improvements:
Luck manipulation is a crucial factor in this game. Enemies' movements are very unpredictable, and sometimes they have to move in a certain way in order to make a trick work. RNG (random number generator, determines how enemies will behave) can be manipulated in two ways: Picking up pots with your hands changes RNG. Using the hook to pick them up will not change it. When there are enemies moving around on the screen, RNG changes every now and then. We believe it changes every time an enemy performs a new action, but we're not positive.
It's very important to have a good RNG value when entering a new room, especially on bosses. If the enemies don't behave the way you want them too, you have to go back and change something, such as picking up less barrels, in order to get new RNG values.
Several puzzle rooms have been improved. There is no luck involved in the puzzle rooms, so here we had to plan ahead and compare different strategies in order to find the fastest one.
In level 4, we take a completely new route. Not only does this save time, it also shows the viewer the mine carts, which is a funny part of the game.
Another big improvement is optimizing subpixels. By looking at the RAM addresses for X and Y subpixels, we were able to optimize Goofy's and Max' positions during waiting periods, as well as optimizng movements in general.

The making of this run:

Randil's comments:

I said in the previous submission that I would improve this, and I eventually did, with some help. :)
This has been quite a big project for me, the second longest one after Darkwing Duck. I've worked on this game more or less since September, and it was very fun to make. I'm really happy that mmbossman decided to help out on this, he had several good ideas and gave good feedback on WIPs, as well as testing out ideas.
The game itself would be pretty easy to TAS if it wasn't for all the randomness, which was a pain at times. But we managed to pull through even the most difficult situations that require lots of luck (level 3 boss, level 5 boss, etc.).
We tried adding to entertainment value during downtime, and show off some antics here and there. I hope you'll smile at least once when watching this run (I think the level 4 boss is the funniest part of this run.)
Anyway, merry christmas TASvideos, enjoy the run!

mmbossman's comments:

When I first started TASing this game, it was simply to update one of the older runs on the site, and to get some experience with controlling two characters. I was about a third of the way through the last level when Randil submitted his run, and it absolutely blew mine out of the water. But thanks to us both working on it at the same time (without knowing it), we were able to take our combined knowledge and make an incredible improved run. I would firstly like to thank Randil for his incredible work on this run, especially with subpixel management. I tried working with it some and was always a couple frames behind, so my contribution was some improved techniques for puzzle rooms, the route change on level 4, some overall testing of things we were unsure about, and some entertainment suggestions. I hope everyone likes it, we worked our butts off to try and make it an entertaining (and damn fast) improvement.

NesVideoAgent: Hi! I am a robot. I took a few screenshots of this movie and placed them here. Here goes! Feel free to clean up the list.

Truncated: Improves on the current movie a lot. Accepted.
Maza: Encoding.


TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1812: Randil, mmbossman's SNES Goof Troop in 16:36.57
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
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Nice, been hoping for this :)
Skilled player (1099)
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
I really liked Freenom's run and I loved this. I've been looking forward to this for a while. I think that this game is one of the best out there for a two-player TAS. The way the players interact to clear rooms offers so much more in entertainment than so many other two-player runs. The solutions that you guys found were funny, interesting and very clever. The improvement was obvious as was the amount of fine work put in. When this gets published I look forward to giving it a well deserved 8/9 :) Clear yes vote. Awesome job.
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
I always liked this run, but it's better having been shortened. A lot better. :)
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Experienced player (933)
Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 629
Location: Mom's
Nice improvement! The coordination seemed well planned. The entertaiment became much better starting at the 3rd level (imo) but the whole movie was nice. Also the 4th boss was very cool with the switcharoony thing. I vote yes :) Merry Christmas Y'all :P
Player (168)
Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada
awesome job guys. could see the time improvement very clearly, nice strategies and I liked all the crazy shit during any waiting periods. A firm yes vote from me.
Player (217)
Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 373
Location: Oregon
Very nice! Having two players presents many more opportunities for entertainment, and you guys did a good job of taking advantage of those. I was never bored at any point. And of course, the run looked well optimized.
Joined: 4/12/2007
Posts: 78
Location: Atlanta, GA
I have to say, the robot chose a nice screen shot for the second one, where Max's head is on Goofy's body. Anyway, I enjoyed the run and am voting yes.
Expert player (3644)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Well optimized and entertaining runs get a yes from Aglar. Great work!
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Joined: 8/13/2007
Posts: 29
Yes. Also, the picture of Max hitting his toe on the block would be great for this tas. Hehe.
Former player
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Goofy definitely lives up to his name during the waiting periods. ;) Great TAS, great game, great players. Yes vote from me, this is now one of my favourite TASes. A question though. Around frame 53000 you use the bell to lure an enemy to a switch. Why don't you use Max to get the Hook gun, and Goofy at the door?
My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
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Soulrivers wrote:
A question though. Around frame 53000 you use the bell to lure an enemy to a switch. Why don't you use Max to get the Hook gun, and Goofy at the door?
At that point, Max had the small key that was needed for the door in the room three transitions away (the next room with the locked door). I toyed around with having Max get the bell and leave the small key to pick up on the way back, but that would have meant Goofy would need to pick up the small key, and then pick up the boss key, since he would be the one with the open item slot. The only way around this would be for Max to initially grab the key, leave it for the hookshot, use the hookshot, grab the bell, exchange the bell for the hookshot, then return, pick up the key, and then have Goofy pick up the hookshot. However, since there is a delay of about 30 frames whenever an item is picked up, any time saved from having Max grab the hookshot in the room with the pirate switch would be negated from having to do several item switches. Goofy doesn't move that much slower than Max, after all;) Hope that made sense, if not I can upload a snipped picture of the level map and diagram it out... I like your thinking though.
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Player (81)
Joined: 3/11/2005
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Location: Oregon
I wonder if it'd be possible to use three of those stalactites during the centipede boss by some clever juggling. Apart from that one point, this is a very noticeable improvement on the previous run. It was significantly tighter and displayed much greater control over the game. Enemy manipulation was hard to notice, but it was certainly done well.
ideamagnate| .seen aqfaq <nothing happens> DK64_MASTER| .seen nesvideoagent * DK64_MASTER slaps forehead
Skilled player (1827)
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IdeaMagnate wrote:
I wonder if it'd be possible to use three of those stalactites during the centipede boss by some clever juggling. Apart from that one point, this is a very noticeable improvement on the previous run. It was significantly tighter and displayed much greater control over the game. Enemy manipulation was hard to notice, but it was certainly done well.
Thanks! About the centipede boss, this would not save any time, even if it was possible. I've done some tests on this, and the centipedes don't die when their HP hits 0, they die after a certain amount of hits. When the boss fight is over, both centipedes have some HP left. However, if it was somehow possible to get both their HP down to 0 before the last entrance, the boss fight would be faster, though I have a hard time figuring out how it would be possible. In order to hit a centipede with more than one rock when they enter the screen, the rocks must hit them at the same frame (this is done at least once in the run, where Goofy and Max throw their rocks at the same time towards one of the centipedes). So even if you were juggling with three rocks, I unfortunately can't see this being possible...
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I think IdeaMagnate was thinking of juggling for entertainment purposes. Position max at a point where two rocks fall, and where Goofy has one, and then somehow manage to keep all three in the air at the same time. It's a very good idea, and may be possible if the characters were as far away as possible from each other so that the throwing animation time wasn't the limiting factor. And who in the hell would program a boss to start with 44 (or something like that) HP, and then die when there's still 16 or so left? The rest of the game makes so much sense up until that point.
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Player (81)
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I thought it might make the centipede fight faster, but it'd also be fairly entertaining if that's not the case.
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Zakatos
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Yup! Yes vote. Teamwork looks perfect, and boss fights are awesome. Very nice work.
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Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [1038] SNES Disney's Goof Troop "2 players" by Randil & mmbossman in 16:36.57