Yeah, we've seen plenty of hard Mario hacks already. Super Mario Forever, Kaizo Mario World, Air, etc. However, Hard Relay Mario stands out simply because it's the hardest. I realize that's subjective, but most hardhacks can be completed if not without savestates, then at least in real time. This was ridiculously hard to complete even when TASing it. This hack was created by six prominent SMB hackers, including U1 (who created Air) and Mana. (who once had an SMB run published here). The following changes are made in this hack:
The levels, obviously.
A new block I "affectionately" refer to as instakill spikes. No matter what state Mario is in (fire, big, small, invincible, whatever), he will die upon touching this block's hitbox, which is about as large as the block itself.
The vines are now clouds and every invisible block is marked. These are merely cosmetic changes.
Other than that, the engine is exactly the same. Everything performed in this movie is doable on the real game, should the stage allow for it. Now, on to individual level notes:
1-1: There's an unnecessary wait before koopajumping into the invisible block. Sorry :P.
1-2: Overall this stage went perfectly, as it's the easiest stage of the bunch.
1-3: Sorry about the Buzzy Beetle at the beginning, I didn't realize it would make that much noise. This one went pretty well, too.
1-4: I want to punch whoever designed this stage so many times. The mini-fire bar section at the beginning and the Piranha Plant section shortly after were absolutely brutal, and account for probably 1,000 of this run's rerecords.
1-5: The whole koopajumping section at the beginning was pretty ridiculous, too, as it was extremely difficult to stomp the koopa at just the right point that the shell stops at the correct position in the ground and that he starts walking in the right direction when he emerges. Nothing else gave me too much trouble.
1-6: This is the first of two stages designed by U1, and the first time the instakill spikes make an appearance. Nothing gave me any trouble, really.
1-7: Holy shit. Hoooooly shit. The trampoline physics are so hard to nail down, and they're absolutely essential to clearing this stage. In addition to that, you have to make absolutely certain that the screen doesn't scroll over too far so that you can avoid the leftmost invisible block on the last jump. Completely and utterly insane, and the second-most difficult stage in the game.
1-8: The walljumping portion near the end is all that got even mildly frustrating. Walljumping directly above a spike is a highlight, I think.
1-9: Every section of this level was pretty difficult, but the most they required was very patient brute-forcing. This is the most fun level to see in action.
1-A: Every level before this one is there to simply lull you into a false sense of security. "It's alright," you think, "with enough effort I can get past anything. I mean, I got past the Piranha Plant part in 1-4. This won't take me too long." Then this stage comes along and kicks you square in the balls. This is the other level designed by U1, and also the most difficult stage in the game, primarily because it's so long. I started a test run of this game, and I didn't even complete it because of the Bowser battle at the end. Fortunately, I got through it this time, and I'm very proud of the result.
There's three "bonus" stages available at the title screen after you beat the game, but none of them are really notable, so I opted to preserve the cohesiveness of this run and just ended it at the axe touch. Overall, there are some sloppy parts, but only two or three perceptibly so, and the good much outweighs the bad, in my opinion. Check it out.
Yeah, a bit sloppy. You missed a shot on Bowser, among other things. Not a big deal for a concept demo, I suppose, but some dancing while waiting for a koopa to pick his ass up and crawl across the screen would have been a plus.
It's a good hack though, and the movie was definitely entertaining so I'ma bust a Yes vote up on this mofo.
I voted yes because I thought it was entertaining for it's precision requirements. Through 10 worlds, it didn't fail to keep my attention, possibly because of the severe physics abuse.
I can't really judge how well it holds up compared to other hack movies on the site, but it's certainly got entertainment value to someone who isn't initiated into the world of SMB1 hacks.
I guess its just me but I thought it was a little bit dull compared to Air Mario.
Those koopa's are so slooow, and there are bits where you are just standing around for a couple of seconds just doing nothing, which is quite boring.
It may be just me again but I though that many of the levels just required you to do the same thing over and over again (double jump, go through wall, double jump, go through wall etc).
Its not a bad hack, but its no Air Mario :)
Joined: 12/22/2006
Posts: 193
Location: Flowood, MS
You missed a shot on Bowser, among other things.
Bowser's positioning is really, really random, and it took me forever to even get him to where he wouldn't try to trample me while I'm simultaneously jumping around on the moving platform, trying to avoid the spikes and shooting fireballs. In the clear movies that come with the hack, some stuff is done that requires randomness that I just couldn't acheive, try as I may, and the perfect Bowser positioning in 1-A is one of them. So all in all, it's a lot of things to juggle even in frame advance, so I guess I didn't notice when I missed a shot. It's not a great justification, but I might as well explain myself. Thanks for watching, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
if this is the hardest now then shouldnt this obsolete air?
No, I think this movie complements rather than replaces Air. They're both very good and well-thought out hacks that each have something unique to show.
<adelikat> tony hawk is porn for me
<Comicalflop>my mom is hot
In my opinion there was bit too much waiting and repeating like Undercover said. Anyways last level was something enjoyable stuff. Dodging those new spikes was the highlight of the movie and I really laughed. Thanks for that :)
So, my final judgement is Meh, It wasn't bad, but it needs more stuff like last level to make me vote yes. Thanks for the run anyway, keep up the good work :)
Part 1 was a little slow, Part 2 definitely picked up and made things interesting with the tons of instadeath spikes and totally fucked physics glitches.
And I'm convinced 1-A is hell. :P
There's an unnecessary wait before koopajumping into the invisible block. Sorry :P
Well, then, you should have fixed it before continuing. This was in 1-1, errors this early on have no reason to exist. I'm not usually this harsh, but nobody else was saying it.
As much as I must commend you for finishing this damned thing, I also know that this could be finished much quicker. It's worth watching from the standpoint of, "wow, sadists sure are creative" but I'd have to see the unnecessary pauses dealt with before I'd cast a yes vote.
I definitely can't vote no, however, because DAMN. I can rattle through SMB glitches just fine, but level designs like that make me run away screaming. I'll watch someone blow through these hacks and happily oblige a pat on the back.
Voting Meh, will upgrade to Yes if the shortcomings are ironed out.
Meh vote from here.
Even though it shows a lot of glitches and is TASing a real hard rom hack, it looks real sloppy, fact that makes this run mismatch this site quality standards.
Joined: 6/21/2004
Posts: 247
Location: New Hampshire
I had no idea what was going on most of the time, but that didn't stop me from being entertained. I see no reason why this shouldn't be published in the hacks/demos section. Yes vote.
I'm gonna vote 'no' to this. Either way the run doesn't satisfy the good conditions of a TAS, it neither plays for entertainment or speed. It felt like a real time player playing through the game with great caution and savestates.
I'm gonna vote 'no' to this. Either way the run doesn't satisfy the good condictions of a TAS, it neither plays for entertainment or speed. It felt like a real time player playing through the game with great caution and savestates.
Despite AKA's typo, I agree. This was not entertaining. No vote. Not much else to say. Blah blah blah gimme an apple.
I'm sciencing as fast as I can !
______________________________________
<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
Joined: 12/22/2006
Posts: 193
Location: Flowood, MS
the run doesn't satisfy the good condictions of a TAS
Well, it's tool-assisted and does impressive things. But hey, whatever.
it neither plays for entertainment or speed.
The second line of the submission text disproves this statement.
It felt like a real time player playing through the game with great caution.
That's almost insulting. It would be unreasonable to ask everyone who watches this movie to extensively study the smb engine and recognize the many subtle nuances in the level design that makes the solutions so very steadfast and immutable, but there is no way that a capable TASer can look at the actions performed in this movie and state seriously that anyone could do more than maybe two or three in real time. Despite the relatively low rerecord count on this particular movie, I've put a considerable amount of work into studying the solutions to this game and the technical aspects of the many quirks utilized to achieve them, and for someone to dismiss that as "real-time with savestates" is utterly baffling and somewhat frustrating.
<adelikat> tony hawk is porn for me
<Comicalflop>my mom is hot
It felt like a real time player playing through the game with great caution and savestates.
Key word here is felt. That's how it FELT for me too. It did not have the TAS feel to it for the most part.
I'm sciencing as fast as I can !
______________________________________
<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
This is singlehandedly the worst piece of shit excuse for a hack I've EVER seen! I mean SERIOUSLY?! This looks like some 5 year old on crack developed it! Even those Kaizo SMW levels worked without need for insanel glitching...
I'm sorry... Air was a mistake, but even that was better looking then this.
If ever there was a reason to prevent hacks... this'd be the one brought to the table everytime, even when someone brings forth a masterpiece like SDW, which was truly worthy of this site.
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Just another random gamer
----
<OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Joined: 12/22/2006
Posts: 193
Location: Flowood, MS
You say that as if the levels were intended to be completed without insane glitching. On the contrary, that's the whole point of the hack. You should take a closer look, it's not nearly as mindless as you think; the levels are obscenely detailed and created by people who know SMB inside and out.
<adelikat> tony hawk is porn for me
<Comicalflop>my mom is hot
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
No vote here.
There was nothing about this hack that makes it particularly noteworthy, nor is there anything that differentiates it sufficiently from Air to make it worth publishing.
The hack is unsightly. It seems like nothing more than a random organisation of tiles. Its sole purpose is difficulty at the expense of the fast flowing action that makes SMB TASes entertaining.
The TAS itself is not entertaining. The player looks confused and ordinary. I wouldn't have believed this to be a TAS. If, like you say, the level design does not allow you to play anything other than slowly then, in my opinion, this is not a good game for a TAS at all.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
mushroom wrote:
I'd have to see the unnecessary pauses dealt with before I'd cast a yes vote.
Um...there was only one. Or, at least there was only one that was really noticable.
Untrue, I counted at least 4 in 1-1 alone. Overall, this movie felt slow to me. Glitches, in my mind, are meant to speed up a game, not make you wait for the glitch to be possible. I can tell that this hack would be impossible in real life, and so from that standpoint, I would say that it is TAS worthy. However, the purpose of this site is to create entertaining movies, which this failed to do for me. A normal game with a multitude of glitches that are used to make a quick and entertaining movie is good. A game created solely to be impossible unless using every trick known while slowing down the action substantially isn't good. I think this would appeal to people who eat, sleep and breathe SMB, but not the average viewer. Voting no.
Joined: 12/22/2006
Posts: 193
Location: Flowood, MS
Um...are you sure there are four unnecessary waits in 1-1?
I think this would appeal to people who eat, sleep and breathe SMB, but not the average viewer.
I think it appeals to those who are either new to tases or who are smb enthusiasts, but those who are neither may end up bored. For some reason I figured that tasvideos would be the best audience to show this to, but the hack isn't receiving as many positive reactions as I thought it would (though, thankfully, it has received some).
<adelikat> tony hawk is porn for me
<Comicalflop>my mom is hot
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Ok, I misread. There were not 4 unnecessary waits, but there were at least 4 periods of slowed (to a stop) action in the first two minutes. I don't think there is another movie on this site with a ratio like that. Even if this run were a frame perfect completion of the hack, it still is not a fast run because of all the pauses.
