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Chamale
He/Him
Player (182)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada
Vatchern got one minute. Anyways, anyone who says my methods are unentertaining has clearly never seen my final boss test run. My method involves running around everywhere, constantly doing flying-kick attacks, and throwing weapons to have them bounce off walls, etc. Far better than Vatchern's, which is just standing still and repeatedly clubbing the enemy.
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 563
Location: Toronto, Ontario
If it's cool, it's all good :) Just thought I'd throw that out there because it did in fact beat the famtasia run's time, if nothing else. I look forward to your run Chamale.
Joined: 7/12/2007
Posts: 3
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Hello Adelikat! I will like to improve the Snow Brothers game. Thank you!
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
adelikat: you can unbold the princess only run. I've hit a roadblock.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Chamale
He/Him
Player (182)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada
What's the roadblock? I hit one with the fall-through floor trick in 1-1 when I tried that run. @ RevalationK: Good luck. 2 player runs are harder to make, but I think with good use of frame advance you can do it.
adelikat
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Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
RevalationK wrote:
Hello Adelikat! I will like to improve the Snow Brothers game. Thank you!
Awesome! :) Good luck with that. I encourage you to post some WIPs in the nes games forum. I'd be interested in your progress.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Experienced player (829)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Just stumbled across this topic again, but I wonder how likely it is that some of these movies will get obsoleted. The 3 track and field movies and the Temco Super Bowl movie were published back when publication was a little less, shall we say, formal then it is now, and those movies today probably would become gruefood (none of them has an average rating above 5). So with that said, is there any chance of publication even if someone decides to try their hand? I'm certainly not trying to dissuade anyone from trying, it seems to me that they were just poor game choices to begin with. Anyone have ideas on how new movies for these two games could reach publishability?
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
mmbossman wrote:
Just stumbled across this topic again, but I wonder how likely it is that some of these movies will get obsoleted. The 3 track and field movies and the Temco Super Bowl movie were published back when publication was a little less, shall we say, formal then it is now, and those movies today probably would become gruefood (none of them has an average rating above 5). So with that said, is there any chance of publication even if someone decides to try their hand? I'm certainly not trying to dissuade anyone from trying, it seems to me that they were just poor game choices to begin with. Anyone have ideas on how new movies for these two games could reach publishability?
If a game has been published, there's no chance of an improvement being rejected just because the game sucks. I think that's a 100% official judge statement. Case in point being Jaws, as I recall there was a pretty lively discussion when that one was submitted and accepted.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
IMO getting a perfect score in a game like track&field is at least so interesting that it deserves at least one movie. If you improve the existing score, I believe it could replace the three existing ones or something.
Experienced player (829)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Two more movies can now be taken off the list, down to 12 now.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
adelikat
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Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
This is "Season 3" of the famtasia challenge (began in Jan. 2006). There are only 7 left and I want 2008 to be the big year. Let's finish! I intend to do all myself if I have to, but I really hope to motivate some folks to join in and help :)
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Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
adelikat wrote:
There are only 7 left and I want 2008 to be the big year. Let's finish! I intend to do all myself if I have to, but I really hope to motivate some folks to join in and help :)
Well, 3 of the 7 are already bolded so that is about half already (I'll promise you zelda second quest will be done before 2009 ;). I can somewhat see why the ones that haven't been done or bolded yet haven't been done... so good luck with those if it comes down to you having to do them :P
Post subject: Rationalizing a run right off the list.
adelikat
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Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
So I did some tests with Eggerland. It turns out that (at least for this game) famtasia emulates the disk loading much faster than FCEU. This is not a small margin either. The opening load takes about 150 frames more in FCEU and about that much on each subsequent load. I tried hexing Bag's .fmv input into a .fcm file but it would desync anytime the load screen appears. With as many loads as this run has, this would mean a FCEU run would be much slower even if big improvements were found. As a result I think there is good justification for using famtasia for such a run (it is also a very simple game more advanced tools may not be required to optimize it completely). Therefore, I am removing it from the list.
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Banned User
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 231
Location: Lonely City
I am now trying to improve "Akumajou Special - Boku Dracula-kun" which is made by Phil and Genisto.It has never been obsoleted for 3.5 years.It maybe the oldest NES run in Published movies.
work hard
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Good to hear, Xipo! Me and adelikat were working some on this some time ago, but (at least I) lost motivation because of how hard it is to manipulate the maze at the end of each level. Hopefully you'll get more lucky. :) Here's our WIP. Here are the RAM addresses I have for this game:
00FD Screen|X|pos
00FC Screen|Y|pos
0084 Screen|Y|subpos
053C X-pos
051E Y-pos
00A1 Sub|Y|pos
0085 Speed
001C Lag|flag
| |
00AA HP
005D Coins
| |
00B5 Y|pix|speed
00B8 Y|sub|speed
| |
0548 Enemy|x|pos
05D8 Boss|HP
05DD Boss|HP
06D4 Boss|inv.
00A8 Attack strenght - weak attack on 40, strong on 80

The following addresses are used when manipulating the maze:

0088 Maze bridge - must be 0
0091 Maze bridge - must be 0
0099 Maze bridge - must be 0
00A4 Maze bridge - must be 0
00A8 Maze bridge - must be 0
0095 Maze bridge - must be 0
Post subject: Re: Rationalizing a run right off the list.
Joined: 4/3/2005
Posts: 575
Location: Spain
adelikat wrote:
So I did some tests with Eggerland. It turns out that (at least for this game) famtasia emulates the disk loading much faster than FCEU. This is not a small margin either. The opening load takes about 150 frames more in FCEU and about that much on each subsequent load. I tried hexing Bag's .fmv input into a .fcm file but it would desync anytime the load screen appears. With as many loads as this run has, this would mean a FCEU run would be much slower even if big improvements were found. As a result I think there is good justification for using famtasia for such a run (it is also a very simple game more advanced tools may not be required to optimize it completely). Therefore, I am removing it from the list.
Which emulator is being unaccurate, then? If the culcript is FCEU, then I understand using Famtasia until FCEU fixes this "emulation bug" (which can be never). If it's famtasia the one that fastens the load time, then I think that run shouldn't be allowed/its times should be corrected.
No.
Post subject: Re: Rationalizing a run right off the list.
adelikat
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Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
DrJones wrote:
Which emulator is being unaccurate, then? If the culcript is FCEU, then I understand using Famtasia until FCEU fixes this "emulation bug" (which can be never). If it's famtasia the one that fastens the load time, then I think that run shouldn't be allowed/its times should be corrected.
Agree in theory that the more accurate emulation should be used. But I don't know which one it is, and I don't know who would know. Eitherway it is beyond the scope of this list. Also, the only thing affected is how long the "Loading..." screen appears. Also, I removed solomon's key, which I should have done years ago. The point of this list was to improve movies and that movie was improved. It just happened to be improved by another famtasia movie. But that movie doesn't fit the "old and substandard" category.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Post subject: Re: Rationalizing a run right off the list.
Joined: 4/3/2005
Posts: 575
Location: Spain
adelikat wrote:
Agree in theory that the more accurate emulation should be used. But I don't know which one it is, and I don't know who would know. Eitherway it is beyond the scope of this list. Also, the only thing affected is how long the "Loading..." screen appears.
Any person with a working cartridge can tell. 150 frames is a difference of 2.5s. Can be measured in real time.
Also, I removed solomon's key, which I should have done years ago. The point of this list was to improve movies and that movie was improved. It just happened to be improved by another famtasia movie. But that movie doesn't fit the "old and substandard" category.
I thought the point was that famtasia was obsolete and that by improving all famtasia movies, the site could stop accepting them, and people wouldn't have to download famtasia to view the movies. Obviously, it isn't a must to obsolete every famtasia movie. It's just a self-imposed goal. But being so close now to achieve it, it's a bit sad that we started relaxing the criteria if we can avoid it without too much hussle. :)
No.
Post subject: Re: Rationalizing a run right off the list.
adelikat
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Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
DrJones wrote:
I thought the point was that famtasia was obsolete and that by improving all famtasia movies, the site could stop accepting them
This wasn't the intent at all. The site can still quit accepting them either way. The spirit of the list was to take presumably substandard movies and fix them up with a "better" emulator and new tools.
, and people wouldn't have to download famtasia to view the movies.
This was part of it, I guess. But famtasia will still be a part of the site either way. As the obsoletions are still on the site. Anybody interested in seeing on older movie (morimoto's rockman comes to mind) will still have to deal with famtasia. But like I said, the point was to improve the movies. Solomon's key was improved. And in the case of eggerland, it may not be reasonable to FCMify it anyway. Eitherway, they are removed. Feel free to improve them anyway :-)
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Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
FCMifying Eggerland is a case quite similar to the "ingame vs. realtime" issue. In one case, you have quicker fadeouts and thus lower overall time, in the other you bear with fadeouts but have better gameplay. So I would vote for redoing it on FCEU.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
adelikat
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Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
in the case of eggerland, it is all route planning. The actual execution is quite straightfoward and doesn't necessitate more advanced tools (or even frame advance). So actually the gameplay of Bag's movie is quite optimal. I have no idea if any route can be improved though. But using FCEU doesn't justify it in terms of "better gameplay".
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
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Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Didn't Bag start improving it at one time? I suppose it means there are improvements.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
adelikat
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Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Not to my knowledge. He started working on another eggerland game.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
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Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
So the Eggerland in question and this game are different? [EDIT] Yeah, seems there are differences. [EDIT2] I don't know too much about the game (Bag or someone else could testify), but if it's merely an update over the first Eggerland with slightly more complex puzzles and new content, can a movie done on it obsolete the Famtasia run? (Assuming it will have pretty much all the same content, but better.)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Active player (287)
Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 341
The gameplay of the two Eggerland games is similar, but the maps and puzzles are completely new in the second game. A run of one game will not obsolete a run of the other.
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