Saturn leveled up! He has learned: Flame.
No longer the sole victim of Flame, he can create it against others!
Even if it isn't flaming (it probably is) [no wait, it isn't, since Saturn is so super obviously a Robot with no emotions] {heed this advice well}, it sure isn't fun; sure glad I'm reading this thread!
It seems he's trying to get a point across, but it's not going over very well. Leveling up must have decreased Tact: a useful trait that allows everyone to have fun while getting across points for any TASer's betterment!
Luckily I poured all my stats into Psychosocial Intelligence.
That just proves it again. You land too far into the room in that smv, which is already somewhat slower than precisely landing on that platform in the previous room already (like Cpadolf did in his any%v2) if skipping the Spazer. The moonwalk will only be slower here, because you waste a frame stepping back for nothing.
I was going to show the .smv where I take a boost from a skree in the previous room as well as taking the refill from it without losing time, but upon reviewing it just now, found a 20-something frames faster method only applicable to low% run. Oh well.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 1/21/2008
Posts: 10
Location: I live on the Freaking Moon! o_O;;;...
Saturn wrote:
moozooh wrote:
I realize that making realistic estimations isn't your cup of tea though. Hopefully you manage to improve this ability a bit more someday, as it can save you alot of unnecessary work in the end.
Saturn...you really enjoy pushin it dont ya?
U know what ability would be even better to improve? your estimations on how everything is perfect, cause your the one who needs to work on things.
And by things, I mean comments like these.
Saturn wrote:
And don't have too much hope on the escape either. You won't beat my times there, because they are perfect as well. I'm actually glad you work on it by now, so hopefully we will see your (slower but without seeing my version still impressive) result soon.
Tonski wrote:
is it 110% sure that 49"15' can't be beaten? I mean by delaying frames in the opening in more affective places or stuff like that.
Yep, 120% if you want. I'm very positive on that. ;-)
Saturn wrote:
Haven't much time today, but I optimized the Ceres-station escape by one more frame (reached elevator at 00'48"99) and think its the absolute limit now).
Saturn wrote:
I see, you have no idea for any improvements, yet believe there are still any. I can understand that. Until you convince yourself in every single room, you just won't be sure about it. I redid that part 3 times myself over more than 2 years, doing it fully optimized in the final attempt except a few missed subpixel optimizations, which Taco and Kriole fixed by now. There is nothing more left after that because you just hit the limit at one point, as unbelieveable as it may sound at first.
Saturn, ya gotta leave this to the professionals. If you can get Metroid Prime 3 Corruption to emulate, can you try that for us?! There's too much going on and JXQ is right about one thing.
jxq wrote:
cardboard, comicalflop, Cpadolf, evilchen, Fabian, hero of the day, moozooh, tonski, upthorn, et. al.:
Stop trying, it's hopeless.
As usual... People who argue with me here are mostly those who were never involved in serious SM-TASing. No wonder why they won't be able to understand a couple of things, no matter how much I will try to explain them. Oh well.
Fabian wrote:
You can use .smv's as proof that something is possible. You can't, however, use smv's as proof that something is impossible. For example, saying "it's impossible to improve this because I have this smv right here" won't work out very well at all.
Obviously true. But I was only referring to moozooh's countless claims (in which many were proved to be wrong) he did in the past months, while never showing a smv-proof to confirm them like Taco, hero, Cpadolf, Kriole and basicly everybody else did. A smv says more than 1000 words and avoids all kind of confusion, yet moozooh always prefers the latter choice. Now ask yourself why...
moozooh wrote:
I was going to show the .smv where I take a boost from a skree in the previous room as well as taking the refill from it without losing time, but upon reviewing it just now, found a 20-something frames faster method only applicable to low% run. Oh well.
Nothing special here, now that I helped you to realize the optimal landing position after the damage boost. That's irrelevant though. The point was that moonwalk won't save you any time here (and generally not enough in the entire game to make a activation of it worth in any kind of run). Since you don't show a clear smv-proof, I assume you managed to realize that by now (in that case congratulations on the progress).
PitKidIcarus:
Ignore the useful stuff I contributed and keep backtracking to all the immemorial quotes. Yes, I was wrong on some of them, but at least I have learned from my mistakes.
Except you of course (in many cases).
I'm not saying that your claims on improvements are false, just that your statement there because of your actions seem somewhat out of place.
Saturn wrote:
A smv says more than 1000 words and avoids all kind of confusion
A smv isn't necessarily fully optimized though, and therefore is not always enough to prove something fully.
Saturn wrote:
yet moozooh always prefers the latter choice
No, not always. And probably not as often as you anyway.
IMO it is not necessary to provide smv proof for anything unless you state it as absolute truth or it is highly relevant for others. And since you have held yourself from providing smv proof in both of those cases blaming someone else for making something like that (which AFAIK he never did, in this example he only said he thought that moonwalk could be faster) just looks stupid.
This thread is the VH1 of TASVideos.
You come expecting beautiful art, and leave having watched Flavor Flav kick a skank out of his house.
Stop the flame wars. Stay on topic.
What projects are even being worked on currently, anyway?
[...] But I was only referring to moozooh's countless claims (in which many were proved to be wrong) he did in the past months, while never showing a smv-proof to confirm them [...]
What projects are even being worked on currently, anyway?
hero and I are working on a 100% run, I'd say we are about 20-30% done. Taco and Kriole are working on a RBO run, I have no idea how far they have progressed but since they keep showing new stuff from the beginning of crateria my guess is that they are still somewhere around there. Saturn is working on a any% run of Super Metroid Redesign after a long pause. moozooh and evilchen are working on a glitched out run that aims to skip all bosses in the game and complete it in around 00:15, but there has to my knowledge not been any progress on that in a long time. moozooh is working on a low% run but has not progressed in a long time (to my knowledge). Also I'm working on a TAS for Super Metroid Impossible but that is not really relevant here since it is not a accepted hack for the site.
But I was only referring to moozooh's countless claims (in which many were proved to be wrong) he did in the past months, while never showing a smv-proof to confirm them like Taco, hero, Cpadolf, Kriole and basicly everybody else did. A smv says more than 1000 words and avoids all kind of confusion, yet moozooh always prefers the latter choice. Now ask yourself why...
Amazing hypocrisy on your part. Seriously.
Saturn wrote:
Nothing special here, now that I helped you to realize the optimal landing position after the damage boost. That's irrelevant though. The point was that moonwalk won't save you any time here (and generally not enough in the entire game to make a activation of it worth in any kind of run). Since you don't show a clear smv-proof, I assume you managed to realize that by now (in that case congratulations on the progress).
Moonwalk would have helped in that particular case if landing in the doorway, though. It's just that landing there was wrong to begin with, due to a completely different reason: taking damage boost to a farther location.
Cpadolf wrote:
moozooh and evilchen are working on a glitched out run that aims to skip all bosses in the game and complete it in around 00:15, but there has to my knowledge not been any progress on that in a long time. moozooh is working on a low% run but has not progressed in a long time (to my knowledge). Also I'm working on a TAS for Super Metroid Impossible but that is not really relevant here since it is not a accepted hack for the site.
NBMB is officially on hiatus due to me having a motivational problem, and evilchen having both that and fear that he's not competent/patient enough to do it alone (which is not completely true, but I know what he means). I'm coming up with various ideas (well, lots of them already) and do some tests for low% from time to time, but there is no official progress to report yet.
Also, your TAS is always relevant here because, well, it's a TAS.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 11/21/2007
Posts: 94
Location: United States
I'm working (well I was until the hard drive failed, on a new one now) on a low% for SMR. also working on a any% for SM, but it uses the route console players use. also, I like to have fun sometimes. and how is it that when I try to do the moozooh jump, I can't, but when I dont try to do the moozooh, I do it!?
Current TAS Project:
SMR 100% TAS - 12.5% of the way done with the initial route (I'm going to then release it for further improvments)
You're working on a lot of stuff Fano, I haven't seen any SMV from you in a very long time, literally. You're now starting a low% run for SM:R too? Maybe finish a run before starting a new one.
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691
<BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
Cpadolf:
Everybody knows that the only claim I did on something that is possible without showing a smv was my Ceres escape time before it got matched by Taco. Otherwise I have always provided a smv for them. And just to repeat what was said many times before, all my claims (no matter whether a smv is provided or not) are based on real achievements. I'm not that kind of guy who relys on simple thoughts, despite being right in 99% of cases in them anyway. It's just not enough.
And of course a smv doesn't need to be fully optimized. The only thing that counts is that it proves that something is possible to execute.
moozooh wrote:
Moonwalk would have helped in that particular case if landing in the doorway, though. It's just that landing there was wrong to begin with, due to a completely different reason: taking damage boost to a farther location.
Yeah, obviously that's what you need to avoid in order to
Saturn wrote:
...precisely landing on that platform in the previous room already...
It's actually quite surprising that you didn't manage to realize that yourself before, while even having Cpadolf's run as a demonstration for the optimal landing position after the bat boost there.
As for the current progress, Cpadolf summed it up pretty well. The most promising run we can expect in the near future would probably be Cpadolf's and hero's 100% run. You can also expect a new WIP from my Redesign TAS in the next 1-2 months, even though it won't be a complete run yet. Taco and Kriole also did good progress until Torizo (which is coincidentally the point where my TAS demo stopped to which they referred all the time), but since then we didn't hear any news on further progress for a while now.
And Fano, you should indeed finish a more simple run like SM-any% at first, to get some more TAS experience before tackling a hard project like SMR low% yet. However if you feel like having enough knowledge to do both runs in the same time, then go for it. I'm looking forward especially for your SMR run.
It's actually quite surprising that you didn't manage to realize that yourself before, while even having Cpadolf's run as a demonstration for the optimal landing position after the bat boost there.
That smv was done half a year before Cpadolf started his most recent TAS, so no other reference existed at the time. Cpadolf still didn't refill on the bat, though, and used a different approach in the middle of the room, so his playthrough couldn't be much of a reference anyway, due to different conditions.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
That smv was done half a year before Cpadolf started his most recent TAS, so no other reference existed at the time. Cpadolf still didn't refill on the bat, though, and used a different approach in the middle of the room, so his playthrough couldn't be much of a reference anyway, due to different conditions.
True, it was a bad misstake by me. (especially considering that I did refill on the bats in my SM:I run which wher done months before that) Also during the making of the 100% I found out that it is actually faster to kill the enemy and boost of the crap it shots when it dies than to just boost of the enemy, which makes the misstake all the worse.
Also I actually found a place where the "faster turning to the left in crouch position glitch" is useful :p
Smv attached to avoid confusion :)
It's for SM:I but should run fine on a unpatched rom.
Also I actually found a place where the "faster turning to the left in crouch position glitch" is useful :p
Allow me to feed your ego: That was awesome.
Saturn wrote:
Taco and Kriole also did good progress until Torizo (which is coincidentally the point where my TAS demo stopped to which they referred all the time), but since then we didn't hear any news on further progress for a while now.
True. We ran out of things to compare to, so we are standing here completely paralyzed in shock. What should we do, oh great one? Bless us with your smv.
It was "good" progress since the improvements were pinpointed and already planned ahead, all we had to do was to apply them consequently. It was WIPed directly at Torizo since we wanted to see your humiliation when we yet again take something from your "perfect"-folder and rip it into shreds.
Also, our progress is crippled because more and more improvements were discovered, and we are at the moment in our 7th restart. We are in Brinstar, with all rooms planned ahead (probably), with improvements in mind/planned out for every single one of them.
Thank you :D
Underwater sucks anyway... Lucky me that I'm out of there soon :)
Kriole wrote:
Also, our progress is crippled because more and more improvements were discovered, and we are at the moment in our 7th restart. We are in Brinstar, with all rooms planned ahead (probably), with improvements in mind/planned out for every single one of them.
Sounds good, but I fear that you will pretty much never finish if you keep restarting over small frames all the time :/
Also did that diagonal room timesaver you mentioned work out?
Basically shooting further down to remove the need of waiting 5-6 frames for the geemer to get in position if shooting it from the usual spot no?
That's a tough one to figure out, pretty much ever pixel position needs to be tested in a span of I don't know how many, also for every pixel position you'd need to test a couple of different subpixel positions. I similarly tried to find a better position for the second one but without any luck.
Cpadolf:
Nice find. Not sure this will ever be of use in the original, but I will definitely keep this trick in mind for later TAS work.
Kriole wrote:
We ran out of things to compare to, so we are standing here completely paralyzed in shock.
A bit exaggerated, but generally well noticed.
Kriole wrote:
It was "good" progress since the improvements were pinpointed and already planned ahead, all we had to do was to apply them consequently. It was WIPed directly at Torizo since we wanted to see your humiliation when we yet again take something from your "perfect"-folder and rip it into shreds.
I see. It's well known that a few people here have nothing else to do than to desperately trying to humiliate me. I hope you enjoyed the moment. :-)
Too bad you guys don't seem to be interested to see your own pwnage by showing progress after Torizo though, but on the other hand it's probably for the better that way, since I wouldn't like to spend some of my already limited freetime just to point out missing frames in your runs compared to my old any% anyway. I'm already busy enough TASing SMR after all.
Kriole wrote:
with improvements in mind/planned out for every single one of them.
That's what I mean. Empty thoughts. Otherwise how about showing a at least 1-frame improvement demo for rooms like for example the landing one or my new OTES climb strategy with your subpixel fix already included instead, when you say that they were already planned out and truly achieved? Seems like it won't work out well after all, wouldn't it? ;-)
As to the diagonal room, good luck finding the optimal 1st shot position. That's definitely something for those who use memory watcher, as diagonal slopes are full of subpixel variations that change your projectile angles massively depending of your position on them. Probably the hardest room to optimize in the entire game because of that.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Saturn wrote:
That's what I mean. Empty thoughts. Otherwise how about showing a at least 1-frame improvement demo for rooms like for example the landing one or my new OTES climb strategy with your subpixel fix already included instead, when you say that they were already planned out and truly achieved?
But that would mean spoiling the surprise for the viewers! But you're saying keeping secrets is bad medicine, AMIRITE? Oh wait....
Saturn wrote:
I realize that some people unfortunately don't believe anything I claimed in SM until seeing a smv-proof, but my goal was always to show a new and unique run with tricks never seen before, so I rather prefer to keep them private until the run is done, for a bigger surprise.
The hypocrite limbo bar moves down another notch...
with improvements in mind/planned out for every single one of them.
That's what I mean. Empty thoughts. Otherwise how about showing a at least 1-frame improvement demo for rooms like for example the landing one or my new OTES climb strategy with your subpixel fix already included instead, when you say that they were already planned out and truly achieved? Seems like it won't work out well after all, wouldn't it? ;-)
We are talking about Brinstar here, not Crateria.
I'm having difficulties elaborating without offending you, so I am gonna go ahead and stop right here.
Have fun.
