Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Is the RBO run going to be in-game oriented? The trick used to kill the cactus earlier causes ~30 frame realtime delay due to the door scrolling. The trick only saves 4 in-game frames. Do you plan on using the pause glitch to avoid death at 00 health? It would radically alter the route.
Time to WIP our RBO =).
Weeee!
Compared to Cpadolf, we are 177 frames ahead (the comparison is fair since no difference has yet occured, Brinstar being 59 frames faster).
Incredible run guys. I checked your run more carefully, and it's unbelievable how well optimized it is. To be honest, this is the very first run that is even slightly faster in a few rooms compared to my old any% so far, and there are also many rooms that are exactly same fast, which yet again shows that they must be frame perfect since we never compared our room strategies before, yet achieved the same frame counts in them.
And as everybody can see now, there were no further Zebes-improvements from the landing room till the pre-Torizo entrance except of the mentioned 2 falling rooms due to the new falling tech, and the brand new door entrance trick when entering the pre-Torizo room. Just as it was expected.
As for the route, the only questionable thing so far is that you collected the Charge Beam and it's Missile pack early. It will sure be a bit faster to get them later when you already have PBs to save some frames when destroying the bomb block above the Charge Beam. But maybe early Charge will save you a couple of important Missiles while killing some enemies on the way like you did with the cactuses, so strategically viewed, it might be a not so bad decision after all. Like Cpadolf, I would also be interested to know what exact route you guys are planning to use though. Maybe we can even suggest some more route-improvements in it that way. If you plan it to be a suprise though, then it's surely better to not share it to avoid spoiling.
In any case, this run is totally awesome and I'm looking forward for more progress. Keep it up.
moozooh wrote:
Hah, and Saturn didn't believe me when I said that using mockball when planting bombs could speed up the Dachora room. :D
How could I not believe it when I actually used it in my old any% as well? :-)
It was a pretty obvious tech to be honest, I just avoided to talk about it at first, because I was curious whether anybody would figure the benefits of it out by themself. If we look back at what happened so far, it wasn't that surprising that it would be the Powerrangers to perform this tech in a benefitting way besides me. In fact, they even improved the bombing part by one frame, as they managed to lay 3 mockballed bombs in a way that it saves 1 frame each, where I only could mockball bomb on the first 2 blocks, despite trying hard on the 3rd (I just couldn't find the needed subpixel for it). :-(
hero of the day wrote:
Is the RBO run going to be in-game oriented? The trick used to kill the cactus earlier causes ~30 frame realtime delay due to the door scrolling. The trick only saves 4 in-game frames.
Nope, it actually saves only 2 frames. :-)
Although I'm often for in-game time as well, losing whole 30 realtime frames for them seems to be too much of a exchange. I too would rather sacrifice this 2 frames in that case, even if I would do a in-game oriented run.
Cpadolf wrote:
I don't think they will use pause abusing though, that's just stupid.
I'm also strongly against any kind of pause abusing. There is absolutely no entertainment at all watching a run that has 20 min of continually pausing and unpausing sequences in it.
How could I not believe it when I actually used it in my old any% as well? :-)
Well, that's pretty odd, because when I asked your frame counts for that (and the next) room just before releasing low% testrun WIP2, it turned out I somehow managed to be one frame faster in each, which presumably happened due to subpixel optimizations in the beginning of Dachora room and Charge Beam vault entry mockball, respectively. Might have been a time paradox, though.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Yeah, I obviously had to add a few frames to my real accomplishments in this rooms to not spoil the tricks I used in them before the final run. Don't worry, you will get your proof when I post that run someday, and you will also know that the run is legit because you will see the exact same moves and refill drops like at Botwoon (as seen from the various speed demos on my YouTube channel), which would be impossible to duplicate again.
Yeah, I obviously had to add a few frames to my real accomplishments in this rooms to not spoil the tricks I used in them before the final run. Don't worry, you will get your proof when I post that run someday, and you will also know that the run is legit because you will see the exact same moves and refill drops like at Botwoon (as seen from the various speed demos on my YouTube channel), which would be impossible to duplicate again.
So you lied so he wouldn't improve your room? What?
Joined: 3/17/2007
Posts: 97
Location: Berkeley, CA
Saturn wrote:
Yeah, I obviously had to add a few frames to my real accomplishments in this rooms to not spoil the tricks I used in them before the final run.
Yeah, obviously! Well, to avoid being forced in the direction of modesty like that, you could try talking shit about entertainment techs rather than just time-saver techs. It's easier to talk about those without actually talking *about* them.
The more I think about this the more confused it makes me. Why would you want to deliberately obscure how people view your progress like that? I mean it doesn't make sense unless you think that people believe that whatever framecount you get is the absolute minimum it'll go and just stop when they reach it, which sorta goes against the grain of what TASing is about. Maybe I'm just overthinking this but I'm trying hard to find a reason other than it's you trying to cover for your old WIP being flawed by making shit up.
Back to SM: Nice WIP guys, keep it up.
I'm loving the RBO, Taco and Kriole. I found myself saying wow a few times at the new tricks. This was also my first time seeing the low-jump torizo skip, so it was pretty impressive.
I also like the entertainment during the waiting scene in Ceres. This is also an important part of TASes, as you know, so keep that up as well.
If only the run weren't progressing so slowly. Oh well. I guess good things come to people who are patient.
Fantastic WIP, it still amazes me more than a year after seeing my first TAS of this game (Which I found mindblowing when I seen it) people are still finding all these ways to shave off the frames.
It's a shame how some significant time savers could probably have been discovered months ago had some people been more forthcoming in their discoveries but I salute those who do share. Well done guys.
Joined: 6/22/2007
Posts: 181
Location: Eastern Michigan University
Saturn,
I found a glitch involving a special combination of movements, it really optimizes subpixel movements, so far I've saved 1 frame for every room... talk about crazy...
I might release a WIP, but I'd rather you figure this one out for yourself.
Joined: 6/22/2007
Posts: 181
Location: Eastern Michigan University
Fabian wrote:
1 frame compared to the current frame counts that have been released or compared to the secret adjusted frame counts no one knows about just yet?
Obvious troll, trying to say that my method isn't real, when infact I have been spending countless hours reversing the game. My private any% run is currently dominating the published run, and all the public WIP's. I have used a modified version of SNES to achieve this accuracy, testing nearly every combination possible for a room at a time on my dedicated quad core, 64bit cpu with 8 gigs of ram. You should see some of the interesting things it came up with... and I'm not done searching.
So please, don't troll me...
okaygo, you sound more like a troll than he does (he does?). But that might be because I have no idea what you're talking about; I've never seen you around before. Not saying you aren't legit, though. Anyway, sounds interesting, given that the Internet isn't just a big lie.
Joined: 11/21/2007
Posts: 94
Location: United States
WOW I missed alot. ok, first things first. Taco, that is such an amazing find. This will save alot of time, as already demonstrated. gstick, those were really great smv's, espically the red brinstar one. never thought the bomb spread could've saved time.
Kriole + Taco: ... I just dont know what to say about your WIP. Just AWSOME and very nice to watch ... many new tricks and ways of doing things (is the new crateria mainstreet -> otes actualy faster? and did you get the idea from me?) ... just awsome ... you guys did the 2 rooms that I have gotten so mad about (diagnol room because ... well ... you know why and the first pink brinstar room because of the mockball bomb placement things) ... just ... keep on being awsome. the movie did look perfect, but it probably isn't ... or mabey it is.
okaygo: how the fuck do you call Fabian a troll when he was asking a question? you are the real troll here.
Current TAS Project:
SMR 100% TAS - 12.5% of the way done with the initial route (I'm going to then release it for further improvments)
I really do hope Saturn's run is the most mind blowing thing i've seen from the site.
After all the drama caused by the methods used, the bragging and boasts and then, if I understood correctly, intentionally lying about frames he'd saved incase other people managed to perfect those rooms in their own runs.
I hope it's special.
I highly doubt we'll see anything new from Saturn within the next couple years, except maybe his Redesign WIP 5.
What I got from Okaygo's original post was that he was just trying to 1-up Saturn. It seemed more sarcastic than legit really. Just my two cents.
It'll be difficult to be special if its public release is dependent upon it being matched or bettered by someone else's public release. The best response you'll be able to give is, "seen it already."
Saturn,
I found a glitch involving a special combination of movements, it really optimizes subpixel movements, so far I've saved 1 frame for every room... talk about crazy...
I might release a WIP, but I'd rather you figure this one out for yourself.
I saved two seconds on the Ridley fight by switching to Geico.
Kriole/Taco - Damn impressive WIP. Keep up the same quality for the entire run and it will be an amazing run. Can't wait for the finished product.
