Post by Captain_Forehead

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:05 PM

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SwordlessLink

Experienced player (504)

Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682

No rush. If you want to post the other options we have here, go ahead. If you'd rather discuss it over AIM later, that's fine as well.

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:36 PM

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I resolved the problem. The answer was really quite simple: we do Woodfall before the ranch; there should be barely enough time. However, this brings up a new problem: the Gilded sword used to be justified by the fact that it made Twinmold, Garo Master, Gomess, Odolwa, and Majora faster. Woodfall>Ranch removes Odolwa, and the arrows method on Twinmold removes him. Deku nuts speed up Garo Master and Gomess to the point that they lose minor time from not having gilded, which just leaves Majora itself. I'll have to time it, but forging the Gilded sword loses ~1:30, which is about the time I estimate we lose not having it on Majora. Meanwhile, not having gilded solves all of our rupee problems instantly. You may not realize this, but the Gilded sword effectively costs 300r, as if you don't get it, the gold dust can be sold for 200r at the curio shop. This means we not only don't have to worry about collecting rupees before the ranch, we can skip both Zora pots and the second trip to the ECT chest, AND still have enough rupees to buy a pack of chus for GBT if we want to. So, any thoughts?

Posted: 10/10/2008 6:43 PM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (734)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

My intuition tells me no gilded sword is faster, despite the slower Majora battle. Can you time how much the rupee detours all add to? I have the sneaky feeling that calculation will determine the decision. Oh, is the curio shop out of the way or on the beaten path? That may also be an important factor. .... Does not having the gilded sword really add 30 seconds of extra sword slashing per stage?

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Posted: 10/11/2008 3:37 AM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

Not going to the ECT chest a second time--30s Not playing Zora pots--5-10s Not forging the sword--2:30 or so Curio shop--20 s (it's two shops down from the bomb shop, which we go to...a lot) No gilded for Gomess/Garo Master-- 25s No gilded for Majora--??? I wouldn't imagine more than about 1:30 so, I think no gilded should be faster/

Posted: 10/11/2008 4:34 AM

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Captain_Forehead

Player (79)

Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Utah

I'm having doubts on one part. In the last TAS Mukki got the gilded sword just before the second day, skipping that day and night to get the gilded sword. If we don't get the gilded sword, what are you gonna do for the remaining second day and night. I might not be thinking clearly on this, and the solution may seem obvious, but I'm just wondering. Call me stupid if the answer is obvious, my brain is sort of failing on me for the moment.

Posted: 10/11/2008 9:18 PM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

Well, the first and most obvious solution is that we use the SoDT twice to skip directly to the third day as soon as dawn of the second day hits. This loses ~:25, so it's still favorable. There is another, more interesting solution: get a pack of chus for GBT. It saves the time of using bombs to hover in GBT, and the extras can be used to hover into the clock tower before midnight of the third day. It'll have to be timed, as it introduces two SoS's and an extra stop at the bomb shop, but it would just look so cool... On a different note, I have a new Goht strategy that, while faster than the arrow method, is unfortunately impractical for even a 100%. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awX9_kwrTqo Why do all of my boss strategies turn out suspiciously sexual...?

Posted: 10/12/2008 4:23 AM

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snorlax

He/Him

Joined: 5/20/2007
Posts: 174
Location: Wisconsin

Is the third cycle absolutely necessary? I think the reason behind it was for the Ranch timing, but perhaps things could be rearranged enough at this point so that you could get to the Ranch at the required time. I don't know how realistic that suggestion is at all or if there is any chance it would save time.

Posted: 10/12/2008 5:00 AM

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SwordlessLink

Experienced player (504)

Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682

Is the third cycle absolutely necessary? I think the reason behind it was for the Ranch timing, but perhaps things could be rearranged enough at this point so that you could get to the Ranch at the required time. I don't know how realistic that suggestion is at all or if there is any chance it would save time. I think the third cycle is only done because after getting the Goron Mask, you're too far away from Clock Town to warrant going back there normally, as it's much slower than just going back to the first day and appearing there.

Posted: 10/12/2008 5:25 AM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

yes. It's effectively a SoS to CT, without the SoS.

Posted: 10/15/2008 12:36 AM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

hmm...well, look at this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx-y4q5b8-A Can save a chu on the beginning of most hovers with minimal time loss. Leads to bombs-only low% if I have things right. Meanwhile, the other trick shown is a nice timesaver that lets you go from Palace Heart>sonata quite quickly.

Posted: 10/15/2008 12:50 AM

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Captain_Forehead

Player (79)

Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Utah

Nice.

Posted: 10/15/2008 7:50 PM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nErYnh5tP0o And skipping the Zora mask comes one step closer. Still have absolutely no idea how we're going to get into the temple without the mask, but at least we can finish it once we do.

Posted: 10/15/2008 7:52 PM

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Apo123

Joined: 5/17/2008
Posts: 212
Location: Virginia

The arrow + bottle dive one was funny. Nice work.

adelikat wrote:

It started off fairly tame, but as more balls entered the picture it sure got a lot more entertaining.

Posted: 10/15/2008 10:53 PM

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Captain_Forehead

Player (79)

Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Utah

I don't really understand how that could be faster without the zora's mask, you know unless if somehow the scene that you got the mask is longer than the fight you just did. Question: Would you be able to use that arrow + bottle dive to get the zora eggs in both the pirates fortress and the eel pit?

Posted: 10/16/2008 12:15 AM

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snorlax

He/Him

Joined: 5/20/2007
Posts: 174
Location: Wisconsin

Captain Forehead wrote:

I don't really understand how that could be faster without the zora's mask, you know unless if somehow the scene that you got the mask is longer than the fight you just did. Question: Would you be able to use that arrow + bottle dive to get the zora eggs in both the pirates fortress and the eel pit?

If we skipped the Zora Mask, then we would likely be skipping the song, and there would no longer be any use for the eggs.

Posted: 10/16/2008 1:06 AM

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Captain_Forehead

Player (79)

Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Utah

Oh yeah, I missed that part.

Posted: 10/16/2008 2:44 AM

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Floogal

Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 128

That trick to damage Gyorg without using the Zora Mask is ...unintuitive. I guess this means that soloing the fight with Goron Link (for fun) is completely impossible -- you can stun Gyorg, but not damage him. Could you time a Deku Bubble & water-hop to fall under just before the bubble hits, or would that be considered not "underwater" (probably so)? Fierce Diety's energy blast must be hardcoded to work anytime.

Posted: 10/16/2008 4:35 AM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

It's rather unlikely for it to be faster to skip the Zora mask, considering how much you have to go through to get the Hookshot without it. However, in a low%, faster is subordinate to fewer items, so it's still useful there. Anyways, Floogal, falling in as a Deku DOES count as being underwater, but I have yet to time it correctly to do so. Incidentally, the brief period you spend underwater after jumping in counts, too, but it's hard to time.

Posted: 10/16/2008 3:31 PM

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Shadow_Byrn

Joined: 3/16/2006
Posts: 289

Um, do you need to be underwater to hurt him? I know you can stun, but I thought you could just shoot him full of arrows to hurt.

I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.

Posted: 10/16/2008 7:24 PM

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zdude255

Joined: 6/26/2007
Posts: 147

Captain Forehead wrote:

I don't really understand how that could be faster without the zora's mask, you know unless if somehow the scene that you got the mask is longer than the fight you just did. Question: Would you be able to use that arrow + bottle dive to get the zora eggs in both the pirates fortress and the eel pit?

If you can get into GBT without the mask, it'll be possible to skip much more than just the mask scene. It'll also let us skip a bottle and pirate's fortress once.

Posted: 10/16/2008 7:25 PM

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