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Posted: 5/30/2008 4:49 AM
(Edited: 1/23/2022 10:24 PM)
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
So I made a Chrono Cross TAS. Because not everyone follows the RecentChanges or the IRC channel, I'm posting it here… http://tasvideos.org/HomePages/Bisqwit/Projects/ChronoCross Shortly: ― Made with AVI rerecording (no replayable movie file) ― Consequently, available only as .avi.torrent downloads (total size: 1.3 GB, available in segments) ― Speed/Entertainment tradeoffs: Definitely not the fastest route through the game. ― Novel technique and author's first speedrun at this game; lots of things can be improved even considering the tradeoffs. Still, it's pretty nice. FAQ: ― No, the emulator used (pSX) does not have TAS capabilities at this moment. I extended the emulator using a technique that is only available in Linux for now. (It could theoretically be ported for Windows, but I don't have the know-how.) ― Other questions are answered on that page. Length: 9 hours, 8 minutes and 25 seconds (according to the memory card save).
Posted: 5/30/2008 11:40 PM
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emu
Active player (386)
Joined: 1/2/2007
Posts: 188
Location: Germany, Munich
Again, astonishing work, bisqwit. Honestly, I never played Chrono Cross and I will likely watch only small parts of the run. But, the work, that you put into rerecording emulators for playstation (and so many other projects) is just tremendous. No problem keeps you from giving up, making you a driving force for the whole community. I benefit from this all the time, but unfortunately can't give anything back, except my appreciation.
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:24 PM
(Edited: 7/13/2008 9:27 PM)
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FreshFeeling
Joined: 8/13/2005
Posts: 356
Location: Canada
I recently finished watching this. Obviously I love watching TASes, but this one took me several days in segments. I read the page about this project but I'm not sure how much it has been discussed on IRC or elsewhere. Sorry if my questions and comments have been covered before. Regarding the game: It's kind of weird, I think I both love and hate the game. I really like the battle system, but hate how unChronoTriggery it is. Even then, we don't see the battles that much because the run is mostly a journey between boss battles. If it weren't for this game's great graphics and music I think it would be very hard to watch, even for someone who knows the game and enjoys TASes. I'd have to say I enjoyed it though... after all, I watched the whole thing. Regarding the speed/entertainment relationship: I was honestly glad that I could follow the text. I actually took the opportunity to watch in slow-motion to better read the dialogue at Chronopolis and post-Chronopolis to follow the, uh, "plot". It's still confusing as hell, but I was glad I had the option. Of the Nikki/Guile/Pierre routes, the Nikki route is probably the most natural choice to the player. Without the Zoah boss fight, Zoah sort of comes out of nowhere later in the game. That route also has some nice music. Nikki is funny to watch in battle, too. I'd say that was a good choice, although the Pierre route is the fastest by far and has some pretty funny text. Similarily, the choice to save Kid seems like the more natural choice to the player, and it gives you access to Razzly (and her nifty hit-all attack), but if I recall correctly it probably is the longer choice by a good margin. You also miss Glenn (who looks kind of cool but probably isn't as useful as Razzly). If PlayStation TASing were more commonplace and input playback were available, would multiple runs be considered publishable for this game because of the path choices? In a 9 hour run the differences don't seem that significant in terms of plot effect nor in terms of time. Regarding the tools: Never having attempted creating a TAS for more than a couple hours myself, I might not be able to fully appreciate what you've done with this one. It does lead me to wonder, however, what this movie could have looked like with a pSX with memory watch and movie playback. How many rerecords were spent manipulating a battle, on average? Did it take a lot of effort to obtain the best dropped items (you sort of covered this...)? Did you always get the outcomes you wanted eventually? Was it possible to affect the actions the enemies took? Do you have a loose estimate how much time could have been saved with the same goals, but SNES9X-like tools? The problem with the echo buffer is pretty hilarious, actually. In this game, which is all about fate and alternate realities, we can occasionally hear these creepy echoes of events that never happened! It was only really noticeable once, still in Lizard Rock, I believe. More regarding the game: After watching I partially felt like I really wanted to play again. The battles were cool. Some of the strategies you were able to use regarding field effect and the TurnColor elements were quite neat. The summons were bearably short and useful. I really like the battles. I partially felt like I never wanted to see Chrono Cross ever again. Maybe because it was just exhausting to watch so much of it. Maybe it's the story. It really feels like a stretch to me toward the end; suddenly a girl you know is a dragon, another girl is from Zeal, cities are being thrown backward through various timelines for no discernable reason... I can accept it but it doesn't really satisfy me as a sequel to Chrono Trigger. It's also weird about how the theme of the game is about defying fate, but you really have no decision about anything. The plotline branches and reconverges and always happens the exact same way (well... until New Game +). Well, I'm ranting. And you're in New York. I don't have much else to say. It was exciting to see and I wanted to post a bit more appreciation (while it was fresh in my mind) since it hasn't been discussed a lot.
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:26 PM
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Soulrivers
Former player
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
FreshFeeling wrote:
It was exciting to see and I wanted to post a bit more appreciation (while it was fresh in my mind) since it hasn't been discussed a lot.
Pun intended?
My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:28 PM
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FreshFeeling
Joined: 8/13/2005
Posts: 356
Location: Canada
Once I had written it, I smiled a little.
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:48 PM
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blahmoomoo
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
FreshFeeling wrote:
How many rerecords were spent manipulating a battle, on average?
You can see the one that probably took the most: the battle against Vita Unus (aka that big mask thing after changing game discs). You can see Bisqwit's description of it in the details section, plus you can download the video of every record attempt with this torrent: http://tracker.tasvideos.org/2/chronocross-tasv1-bisqwit-makingof-unusdostres.avi.torrent I have asked Bisqwit questions about this run in IRC, but I don't know who else watched this. Is there anybody else besides me and FreshFeeling out there that watched all nine hours of this speed run? The plot confuses and fascinates me so much that I have come to the conclusion that probably the best way to understand the plot is to play the game for the plot. Unless there is some guide site out there that will answer most questions (and there probably is). Either way, CC is on my list of games to play. EDIT: If you want to download that torrent, let me know and I will try to seed it.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:55 PM
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Ver_Greeneyes
Joined: 4/2/2008
Posts: 103
Location: The Netherlands
I'm still watching it after noticing this topic a few days ago (at segment 20 right now), and still thoroughly enjoying it :) I didn't read up on the technique Bisqwit used, but I have some ideas for what I think might be a windows equivalent (but as I'm on holiday at the moment it's next to impossible for me to try them out). By the way blahmoomoo, I would like to see that Vita Unus video.
Posted: 7/14/2008 12:10 AM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Thanks for watching the movie! Regarding rerecord counts: -- Manipulating L3 hits/misses was rather easy. It was usually just a matter of looping a "try, if fail, undo and advance 1 frame" mantra. For enemies that are not very animated, that mantra won't work very well because randomness is stale. In those cases, I just need to try out different strategies in terms of which character hits next. -- Manipulating enemies' actions varied. Some enemies are manipulatable, some aren't. For the dragon guardians, the most important thing was to manipulate the number of turns you get at start before they hit. It was accomplished by delaying the dialog acknowledgings. -- Manipulating enemy drops was very difficult (also, stolen items (rare/common)). No randomness manipulation seemed to help for those. It was just a matter of trying a number of different battle strategies; which turn you attempt stealing at, which field colors are in effect at that moment and the such. -- And sometimes, strategies needed to be rethinked many times. That was the case with Vita Unus/Dos/Tres, and most of the other bosses fought in part 2. I needed to find a strategy that allows me to beat the enemy before it casts its nastiest elements, and which allows my characters to survive the battle in good health. I'll add that .torrent to priority seeding list temporary. EDIT: Nope, I won't. I shut down the seeding computer before I left from Finland...
Posted: 7/14/2008 2:38 AM
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blahmoomoo
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
All right, just booted FDM. I'm surprised at how fast it started... Plus as soon as it started it began to seed. This kind of speed is rare on my computer... Well, I'll leave it running overnight and through tomorrow. Currently uploading Vita Unus/Dos/Tres at 150-210 kb/s
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Posted: 8/20/2008 3:06 AM
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Hamm
Joined: 7/29/2004
Posts: 136
Location: Temple City, CA
I can't wait to check this out. I'm going to set up the download on my other computer in just a minute. I honestly couldn't stand playing this game because of the battle system, so I'm anxious to check out the final half of the game that I never got to.
"How can you prove you exist? Maybe we don't exist..." -Vivi Ornitier (Final Fantasy IX)
Posted: 8/20/2008 3:10 AM
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blahmoomoo
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
I am seeding you now at 230 kb/s...
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Posted: 8/20/2008 6:32 AM
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DaTeL237
Active player (356)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
wow I never noticed this post, impressive work :) D/Ling now watching tonight! edit: mentioned -> noticed
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Posted: 8/20/2008 1:45 PM
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blahmoomoo
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
I'm shutting down my torrent client again to free resources. If anybody else wants these videos, just request here or via IRC and I'll start it up again.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:37 AM
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optime
Joined: 8/28/2008
Posts: 2
Can you start it up again? I'm stuck at 44%.
Posted: 8/28/2008 2:33 PM
(Edited: 1/20/2009 4:04 PM)
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blahmoomoo
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
Working... Now that I am using uTorrent (which uses much less processing power and memory than FDM while seeding), I should be seeding the Chrono Cross 27-part torrent at least 6 hours a day. EDIT: I can't seed continuously now, so if you can't download the videos you'll have to ask someone to seed them.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Posted: 8/29/2008 4:58 PM
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optime
Joined: 8/28/2008
Posts: 2
100% So far this looks like it was worth the wait. Thanks, moo. And Bisqwit.
Posted: 9/1/2008 2:49 AM
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Blaise
Joined: 12/28/2004
Posts: 210
Thanks for the seed, I'm downloading right now and will seed also. This run kind of flew under the radar for me, I would have gotten it on day 1.
Posted: 10/29/2008 7:51 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I was just wondering if someone could please seed the Three Files torrent for me. :3 But really, either torrent would do. Edit: Well, since the 3 Files torrent is the one downloading now, that would be the prefered one for everyone to seed. :3 Thanks to those of you that have started to seed. ;3
Posted: 10/29/2008 9:13 AM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Kitsune wrote:
I was just wondering if someone could please seed the Three Files torrent for me. :3 But really, either torrent would do. Edit: Well, since the 3 Files torrent is the one downloading now, that would be the prefered one for everyone to seed. :3 Thanks to those of you that have started to seed. ;3
I forced all three torrents to my seeding list when you first posted, before your first edit...
Posted: 10/29/2008 10:11 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Bisqwit wrote:
I forced all three torrents to my seeding list when you first posted, before your first edit...
Oh, okay. Thank you Bisqwit. :3
Posted: 10/29/2008 11:08 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I'm just hoping that more people decide to seed this 3 Files torrent. At the current moment it's going to take me three days to download it all. xD But anyway, I'm off to bed. :3
Posted: 10/29/2008 11:16 AM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Kitsune wrote:
I'm just hoping that more people decide to seed this 3 Files torrent. At the current moment it's going to take me three days to download it all. xD
Yeah, I cannot seed at a very fast rate. Sorry about that.
Posted: 10/29/2008 4:12 PM
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Squ4ll-
Joined: 11/28/2004
Posts: 138
After I finish downloading this I will keep on seeding it for as long as I can. Seeing as im sitting on a 100/100 mbit line until next summer you should be able to get it a lot faster once im done downloading it :)
The best time you have is the time you share with other people.
Posted: 10/29/2008 7:22 PM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Bisqwit wrote:
Yeah, I cannot seed at a very fast rate. Sorry about that.
I know you can't. I am greatful though. Thanks to you alone, Bisqwit, I have gotten up passed the 21% mark over night. :3 And the download speed has accelerated passed 10kb a second most of the time, so I should have it in 24-30 hours regardless of whether or not more people seed. :3
Posted: 10/31/2008 5:22 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Thanks you very much Bisqwit, I am finished with the download, and will now watch the video. ;3
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