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Posted: 12/16/2008 8:27 AM
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eternaljwh
Joined: 3/11/2008
Posts: 583
Location: USA
Rattleman: error: upper right honeycomb (three left of life statue, up of three skulls) is also a life statue...
Posted: 12/16/2008 9:43 AM
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mike89
Active player (304)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
Off the top of my head (I haven't played BK in many a year), isn't one of the timed games the Zubba's nest in CCW, where you can just stand in the centre with gold feathers and own in quick time? If you could manipulate that one, 22 with one timed doesn't look so bad. Otherwise, scouring other options... you could pick up all three jokers on the left hand side, which would be 26 with no timed and three other skips. How long each "normal" question takes (BK, Skull, Grunty) is the key to working out what is fastest, at any rate.
Posted: 12/16/2008 10:57 AM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
Two things. 1) So holding A speeds up text, but L+R+B doesn't help? :/ (not on a computer that can emulate right now or else I'd use the provided savestates) 2) You don't have to really hold TAB for [X time] on mupen. Due to an oversight or perhaps purposefully left in due to its usefulness, there's an easy way to speed up n64 emulation without tiring a finger. Hold Tab, and then switch active windows (clicking outside of mupen works). It will think tab is still held now, even if you let go. Now you can switch back if you want and you exit TAB-mode by just tapping TAB again. :themoreyouknow:
Posted: 12/16/2008 1:38 PM
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DRybes
Joined: 1/17/2008
Posts: 133
I would get the first Joker and then the lower left Joker (2 questions out of the way of the path, for two more challenge skips), but the upper left Joker is unnecessary (3 questions off the path) as there is only one timed trial to skip after that point. Unless you can't manipulate what trial it is for some reason (perhaps the trials are determined by the frame you enter the furnace fun room, or perhaps they're determined when the entire game starts, like the set of grunty-specific question answers is). But yes, the flibbit (i think that's what they're called) trial takes like 10 seconds with wonderwing. Even without wonderwing, it's worlds faster than either flipping floor tiles game. Hopefully something interesting happens when you try using a joker while in mid-air, or using a joker and jumping simultaneously (skip multiple squares?). The invisible walls around the entire board probably aren't going anywhere.
Posted: 12/16/2008 3:07 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
bkDJ wrote:
2) You don't have to really hold TAB for [X time] on mupen. Due to an oversight or perhaps purposefully left in due to its usefulness, there's an easy way to speed up n64 emulation without tiring a finger. Hold Tab, and then switch active windows (clicking outside of mupen works). It will think tab is still held now, even if you let go. Now you can switch back if you want and you exit TAB-mode by just tapping TAB again. :themoreyouknow:
Just press + until mupen's speed is 1000%.
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Posted: 12/16/2008 11:17 PM
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eternaljwh
Joined: 3/11/2008
Posts: 583
Location: USA
bkDJ wrote:
Two things. 1) So holding A speeds up text, but L+R+B doesn't help? :/ (not on a computer that can emulate right now or else I'd use the provided savestates.
I don't know about LRB working or not- I was basing "A speed up works" on the SDA run I have downloaded. (No, I don't have mupen set up to try the savestates, and I don't have a save close to furnace fun on console- and my gameshark is the one one version before they added the port for updating/downloading saves.) ...though I do seem to remember LRB auto-selects the B-button option if the person was going to ask you a question, such as Boggy w/ "do you want to race" etc. but you've probably already run into that.
Posted: 12/17/2008 3:42 AM
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
After some testing, every question is about the same length except "Eyes" and "Clocks". Music/SFX questions can have the music canceled before the sound even begins for extremely minimal time loss. Eyes can be canceled shortly after they begin, but the game takes 4 or 5 seconds before it registers this. There seem to be two good routes The Right Route: Grab the jokers left of the start, cancel a "clock" and an "eye". Go a little out of your way and grab the jokers on the mid right. use these to skip another "clock" and another "eye". (Going out of your way to answer two fast questions is almost surely faster than getting two eye questions.) Right Route 21 Normal Questions 3 Eyes 41 Squares Traversed (Counting is kinda subjective, but relatively this one takes more steps.) The Left Route: Grab the jokers left of the start. The joker on the middle left takes one less question to grab than the one in the top left. Cancel 3 clocks and 1 eye. Left Route 21 Normal Questions 3 Eyes 39 Squares Traversed Other Notes: I assumed that bypassing a clock is faster than an extra 2 questions or so. I may have miscounted something, or I may very well have not taken something into account, so feel free correct me. I think the left route is better, I may be bad at counting, music questions may take a split second longer than the average question, but I didn't take that into account. Skull questions throw you off into the lava in a semirandom direction. It is possible to hover just before you hit the lava. I could not find a way to abuse it, but the fact that it throws you in a semirandom direction is worth noting. The question given at any point in time changes multiple times per second.
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Posted: 12/17/2008 1:01 PM
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AirmanRWP
Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 32
Does the Action square challenge change every second? If so it may be quicker to manipulate it into a quick challenge like the Zubba's which takes 4 gold feathers and less then 10 seconds to complete.
Of course we graduated cock, beer? ~ Joseph "Airman" Cooper from BASEketball.
Posted: 12/17/2008 11:04 PM
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Floogal
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 128
This doesn't appear to have been mentioned yet: I'm sure that there's a way to speed up text faster than just holding A. My memory is a little hazy, but I recall that holding "start" did the trick.
Posted: 12/17/2008 11:26 PM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
AirmanRWP wrote:
Does the Action square challenge change every second? If so it may be quicker to manipulate it into a quick challenge like the Zubba's which takes 4 gold feathers and less then 10 seconds to complete.
Don't forget that load times aren't instant. sure, the challenge is 10 seconds, but there's probably also 10 seconds in the loading before and after the challenge plus the winning fanfare (I can't imagine a challenge loading faster than an "eye" since those are basically just camera viewpoints in a level). Going out of your way to avoid load times seems worth it.
Posted: 12/18/2008 12:38 AM
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
More stuff The average question takes 5-6 seconds An "eye" question takes about 10 seconds The Zubba challenge in question takes about 20 seconds from starting the square. Holding A+B seems to be the fastest way to get questions to scroll, it reads a line at a time or something. All questions including challenges change extremely frequently (maybe per frame?) I would guess the best way to choose a question would be to walk onto the square as normally (you spend like half a second traversing the square and it doesn't matter where on the square you hit A) and then hit A to trigger the question on the shortest question in the interval with the answer at the top of the list. Interesting fact: You can only move by walking with Banjo once on the board. You can walk onto the board in any other form of movement (Invincibility, Kazooie), but you can only trigger questions while walking/standing with Banjo anyway. POSSIBLY USEFUL: It seems that if Banjo is running in a direction, if you turn around and crouch upon turning around you seem to gain more speed than when banjo is walking. This may be the best method of traversing the board. I didn't test this using frame advance, it definitely seems faster though. If Banjo chooses a square while crouched, after the square is over he will be standing as well. (Banjo cannot roll on the board to my knowledge. Banjo normally cannot do his standing B attack, but if you quickly turn around and do it, it sometimes works. You may be able to apply this knowledge to get him to roll, but I couldn't.)
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Posted: 12/23/2008 10:02 PM
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Sami
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
Here is little christmas present to you guys ;D http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/811630363/Banjo-Kazooie-TAS-Sami-(USA).m64 Gameclock time is 12.08 Comicalflop: I try use that jump + Z trick inside christmastree but its over 100 frames slower than normal climbing... And merry christmas! =)
Current Projects: ???
Posted: 12/23/2008 11:58 PM
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SwordlessLink
Experienced player (504)
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682
Gameboy TAS of 2010 TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
Flawless, as usual. Can't wait to see Rusty Bucket Bay raped. God, I hate that level.
Posted: 12/24/2008 4:16 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
So are the skull squares taken from the pool of all kinds of questions, or just certain ones?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 12/24/2008 4:17 AM
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ShinyDoofy
Former player
Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 716
Anybody up for an encode of the new parts? bkDJ maybe?
Posted: 12/24/2008 4:28 AM
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andymac
Experienced player (623)
Joined: 11/30/2008
Posts: 650
Location: a little city in the middle of nowhere
That movie was awesome, I only watched one third of the encode, but the m64 is excellent.
Measure once. Cut twice.
Posted: 12/24/2008 6:16 AM
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Kowbrainz
Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 23
Location: Perth, Australia
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
So are the skull squares taken from the pool of all kinds of questions, or just certain ones?
Yeah - music/sound, picture, grunty(most annoying thing to happen if you're doing a console run lol), or general knowledge. They're just like joker squares, except with a chance of death and nothing particularly special when you clear them. :P
Posted: 12/24/2008 10:30 AM
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Tompa
Any
Editor, Expert player (2215)
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1941
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
NES TAS of 2018 SNES TASer of 2017 SNES TAS of 2017 NES TAS of 2014 GBA TASer of 2011 GBA TAS of 2011 SNES TASer of 2010
Thanks a lot for the Christmas present, Sami! Wonderful work.
Posted: 12/24/2008 8:22 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Wasn't the walrus skippable? Or was that some other mumbo transformation I'm confusing it with? Sami, both the jump+Z+zip, or the jump+Z+grab+jump again techniques should be faster than normal climbing. I have tested this on many different occasions; even if you can't get that zippy effect, climbing is slower than both zipping or jumping. Also, you could use jump+Z to extend your hitbox and hit the ceiling loading zone faster, like you did way back in Treasure Cove. I was a little disappointed with the christmas bulbs that you didn't play around more during the wait period, you just did the same slow actions repeated. That part was a little boring. But the rest was good, and did show good route planning. Of course, I came to the somber realization that if it took that long for this stage, there's still a looooooong way to go before this is submitted. :-(
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Posted: 12/24/2008 8:35 PM
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eternaljwh
Joined: 3/11/2008
Posts: 583
Location: USA
The christmas tree seemed resistant to jump[-stomp]-climbing when I was playing through last...but that's a bit of fuzzy recollection.
Posted: 12/24/2008 8:42 PM
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MezzoDragon
He/Him
Joined: 5/27/2007
Posts: 120
Sorry to ask rude questions, but when will this segment be posted on Youtube. Or will the AVI version will be made first? Either way, I really want to see this part. I don't have an emulator.
Posted: 12/24/2008 8:54 PM
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Sami
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
Comicalflop wrote:
Wasn't the walrus skippable? Or was that some other mumbo transformation I'm confusing it with? Sami, both the jump+Z+zip, or the jump+Z+grab+jump again techniques should be faster than normal climbing. I have tested this on many different occasions; even if you can't get that zippy effect, climbing is slower than both zipping or jumping. Also, you could use jump+Z to extend your hitbox and hit the ceiling loading zone faster, like you did way back in Treasure Cove. I was a little disappointed with the christmas bulbs that you didn't play around more during the wait period, you just did the same slow actions repeated. That part was a little boring. But the rest was good, and did show good route planning. Of course, I came to the somber realization that if it took that long for this stage, there's still a looooooong way to go before this is submitted. :-(
Hmm I do that jump+z thing best possible frame ( banjo gets higher as possible) and still its slower... and that thing what I done in TTC, its good in there because other way to exit the hatch is z+A and its slow. Yeah maybe i would do some "ticks" waiting christmas bulbs going in tree but naah, I like it this way :p AND there is not much free time between killing green things...maybe when I waiting that first one come up but naah :D
Current Projects: ???
Posted: 12/24/2008 11:52 PM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
MezzoDragon and ShinyDoofy and anyone else wondering about a video: I am away from my stuff. and don't have the free time or computer to make one or the bandwidth to upload one. I'll be back home on December 30th. Apologies! Oh, a new page. I'll quote Sami for convenience:
Sami wrote:
Here is little christmas present to you guys ;D http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/811630363/Banjo-Kazooie-TAS-Sami-(USA).m64 Gameclock time is 12.08 Comicalflop: I try use that jump + Z trick inside christmastree but its over 100 frames slower than normal climbing... And merry christmas! =)
Posted: 12/24/2008 11:54 PM
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ShinyDoofy
Former player
Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 716
Good to know you haven't overseen this. Thanks for dropping us a line and enjoy your computer-free time :)
Posted: 12/25/2008 9:01 AM
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AirmanRWP
Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 32
Apologies if this has been previously answered somewhere but I can't find it anywhere in FAQ. How do I play the M64 file? Edit: Nevermind figured it out. About the run; I'm sorry I never said before, Sami, but you do not have to hit the witch switch in Freezezy Peak. Similar to the Gobis Valley Witch Switch Jiggy it can be collected by glitching through the barrier. Beak Bomb where the Jiggy is and you will collect it, recoil backwards and remain flying. Or did you already try this? I'm not sure. :) Other than that, I liked the run. It was very very smooth. I especially like collecting the items during the boggy race. I never thought of that. Very clever :)
Of course we graduated cock, beer? ~ Joseph "Airman" Cooper from BASEketball.
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